Round 6 v Souths

[betcats]

I agree to an extent but I think the key difference though is that we've got a defensive structure at present that doesn't require a player to be hidden.

If we go back to that it may help us in attack but our structure in defense would need an overhaul also which could open up significantly more holes.

While I'm sure in time Moylan could handle it the key difference between him and the guys mentioned is that they have done it through reggies and NRL as well.

Moylan hasn't played up in the line for a while and to throw him in there without experience at the top level would be, imo, detrimental to his development. Learning how to read players lines and the technique required is different up in the line vs what is required at fullback where lets face it...he hasn't exactly been a defensive juggernaut (nor should he be).

That's the only reason I'd like him to go back to Reggies if that is the path we take with him - just to get the little things down pat so he is prepared.

Fair enough, I have no problem with him spending some time playing in the halves in NSW cup.

Also Mansour can he play on the right? Personally I would let him sign elswhere and give his spot to Eto or Kev but I can see how his metres are valueable to the side and he can really finish a try from close range, his strength is very good for that but the Idris, Mansour combo is very slow. I would love to have some speed outside a big skilled guy like Idris.

 

[franklin2323]

How is it different to what I was saying then? lol

Aside from Robinson for Brown it was exactly what I was saying I would do and I would be in favour of that move as I like Robinson - I just think he looked off in the games in NSW Cup I've seen him in this year thus far.

Worst case I'd just like to see an exchange of Peachey in and Kingston out. IMO it would make us more balanced.

Then, as I had said before, work to phase out Brown through either Cartwright, Robinson or VTK.

Don't you want just Kingston out for Peachey?

While that's good. We will have these halves all year if not more we need 2 kicking options on the wing. And Docker/Brown out replaced by a hard runner also

 

[Big Mick]

Don't you want just Kingston out for Peachey?

While that's good. We will have these halves all year if not more we need 2 kicking options on the wing. And Docker/Brown out replaced by a hard runner also

For this week yes.

Then gradually throughout the season phase out either Docker or Brown.

 

[franklin2323]

Prob need to kicking targets on the wings. Seeing we don't use the hands atleast we can kick it wide.

4 tries will win us most games including next week. So we need as many options as we can

 

[Big Mick]

Prob need to kicking targets on the wings. Seeing we don't use the hands atleast we can kick it wide.

4 tries will win us most games including next week. So we need as many options as we can

I'd be for Nabuli...I just don't think they'd do it tbh.

I think Simmons is a certainty and I doubt they'd drop Mansour unless he signs elsewhere.

 

[Nugget10]

f**k me dead I must be the only Peter Wallace fan here. The man doesn't need to be a creator. Soward and Moylan are there for that. Peter Wallace's key strengths are his defence, his organising and his cool head under pressure. Those three attributes win you finals games.

 

[soc123_au]

f**k me dead I must be the only Peter Wallace fan here. The man doesn't need to be a creator. Soward and Moylan are there for that. Peter Wallace's key strengths are his defence, his organising and his cool head under pressure. Those three attributes win you finals games.

I wouldn't say I am a massive fan, but I can see what he brings to the team. I would like to see a Wallace Soward halves pairing until at least round 12. Then assess how they are going.

 

[marcozzi]

f**k me dead I must be the only Peter Wallace fan here. The man doesn't need to be a creator. Soward and Moylan are there for that. Peter Wallace's key strengths are his defence, his organising and his cool head under pressure. Those three attributes win you finals games.

I'm with you ..

 

[Blues Riff]

I'm happy with Wallace too, but I'm no keyboard coach.

 

[Big Mick]

I wouldn't say I am a massive fan, but I can see what he brings to the team. I would like to see a Wallace Soward halves pairing until at least round 12. Then assess how they are going.

100% agree

 

[abpanther]

I think it's already clear what he brings

 

[Pomoz]

Also Mansour can he play on the right? Personally I would let him sign elswhere and give his spot to Eto or Kev but I can see how his metres are valueable to the side and he can really finish a try from close range, his strength is very good for that but the Idris, Mansour combo is very slow. I would love to have some speed outside a big skilled guy like Idris.

This. It is an irresistible combination when you have speed outside a big centre. Mind you, Idris is reasonably quick over 100m once he gets fit. Not many guys his size are super quick over the first 20m, they need to get into their stride first (leg cadence is usually slower because of the length of their legs).

Once he gets fit, he will draw in more players because they will know if he busts a tackle he can go the length of the field. At the moment, if I was marking him, I would be more concerned about how quick the winger is and feel confident I could run Idris down.

 

[Pomoz]

I would just like to add that the other thing I feel Mansour lacks is timing. Simmons is probably just as slow as Mansour but he seems to chime in for tries and he gets around the outside of his man better than Mansour. Simmons has really good timing but isn't powerful like Mansour.

It is interesting to note that the Souths pack made 100m more than ours with the back row particularly dominant. They made 260m compared to our 160m. Mind you, to be fair, Burgess is the best forward in the competition and nobody is going to run 150m plus every week like he does.

And now to the point about Mansour. Our back line run 510m compared to Souths who run 390m. That is even with Inglis in the back line (103m compared to Moylan's 91m). Mansour (130m) and Idris (137m) made impressive yardage and really acted like back rowers. The question is though, for those of you who love Mansour because he makes metres like a back rower, why don't coaches like Bennet, Hasler and Bellamy just fill their team with back rowers so they can make the most metres? Why not just make all your backs forwards and win the yardage game?

 

[Luke Bowden]

f**k me dead I must be the only Peter Wallace fan here. The man doesn't need to be a creator. Soward and Moylan are there for that. Peter Wallace's key strengths are his defence, his organising and his cool head under pressure. Those three attributes win you finals games.

I'm totally with you! Im a mssive Wal fan!

 

[Panther Pete]

f**k me dead I must be the only Peter Wallace fan here. The man doesn't need to be a creator. Soward and Moylan are there for that. Peter Wallace's key strengths are his defence, his organising and his cool head under pressure. Those three attributes win you finals games.

I am a fan.

 

[betcats]

I would just like to add that the other thing I feel Mansour lacks is timing. Simmons is probably just as slow as Mansour but he seems to chime in for tries and he gets around the outside of his man better than Mansour. Simmons has really good timing but isn't powerful like Mansour.

It is interesting to note that the Souths pack made 100m more than ours with the back row particularly dominant. They made 260m compared to our 160m. Mind you, to be fair, Burgess is the best forward in the competition and nobody is going to run 150m plus every week like he does.

And now to the point about Mansour. Our back line run 510m compared to Souths who run 390m. That is even with Inglis in the back line (103m compared to Moylan's 91m). Mansour (130m) and Idris (137m) made impressive yardage and really acted like back rowers. The question is though, for those of you who love Mansour because he makes metres like a back rower, why don't coaches like Bennet, Hasler and Bellamy just fill their team with back rowers so they can make the most metres? Why not just make all your backs forwards and win the yardage game?

I think Mansour is as good a finisher as Simmons and his yardage gain is more valuable to us since our props have seemingly all turned fairly average. But I dont think his metres make him irreplaceable.

 

[betcats]

f**k me dead I must be the only Peter Wallace fan here. The man doesn't need to be a creator. Soward and Moylan are there for that. Peter Wallace's key strengths are his defence, his organising and his cool head under pressure. Those three attributes win you finals games.

I am a fan I guess, atleast I want to see him given a good shot. I definitely dont think John offers as much as Wallace at halfback, John is a good player and a very good back up to have but I do not want him as our regular halfback.

 

[betcats]

This. It is an irresistible combination when you have speed outside a big centre. Mind you, Idris is reasonably quick over 100m once he gets fit. Not many guys his size are super quick over the first 20m, they need to get into their stride first (leg cadence is usually slower because of the length of their legs).

Once he gets fit, he will draw in more players because they will know if he busts a tackle he can go the length of the field. At the moment, if I was marking him, I would be more concerned about how quick the winger is and feel confident I could run Idris down.

I dont think Idris will ever be a big threat to run the length but his speed should improve a bit, coming off a broken leg and no footy since last July will take him some time to get up to full speed.

 

[betcats]

Not sure if its been said but Sowie will not miss any games with a guilty plea.

 

[souths_pride]

Dude I know Wallace is a finished product but I just want to see what he does with the talent he has around him here before slamming him. Right now we have 4 games evidence of his play and imo he has been great in 1, good in 1, average/bad in 2.

I don't think he has been nearly as bad as people are making out here.

I think players can evolve within a structure and while Wallace may not be a gamebreaker I believe he is doing the job the coach wants of him. I don't think he is operating outside the confines of the game plan.

Is he creative...you wont get an argument from me that he is. I definitely think he is what he is...but it doesn't mean he can't make the best of the talent around him. Most good halfbacks take advantage of the talent around them while not being overly creative themselves.

In the NRL how many true creative halves are there?
Shaun Johnson - flashy but structure wise is very limited
Albert Kelly - Been good in his time at halfback but very streaky
Chris Sandow - 3 games does not a career make and has a history of going off the rails and not adhering to gameplan
Jonothan Thurston - Best in NRL but this year has just been a facilitator.
Gareth Widdop? - Maybe...

Now there are plenty in the NRL that make the most of the talent around them:
Cooper Cronk - Great halfback, but makes the most of the talent around him to get them in the right position.
Daly Cherry-Evans - Again, great young halfback but he still uses the talent around him and not necessarily creates opportunities himself. HOWEVER, he does take on the line which is great to see.
Adam Reynolds - has been off this year but again uses the talent around him.

So we need to know what we want. We would all love to have a Shaun Johnson type here. But that aint going to happen.

Do I believe Wallace will be anywhere near those halves I mentioned in the 2nd part....hell no...I'm not stupid. But realistically who else is available that can fill that role? Moylan has never done it on an NRL level and we know what John is capable of.

So having said that...I'm just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I believe Wallace is working within the gameplan the coach is setting and I would like to see a larger sample size of him in 2014 in a Panthers jersey before saying "Ok...it's time to move on". That's all.

I'm showing perspective but also want to have an educated opinion based on a larger 2014 sample size.

I agree with you 100% about sticking with Wallace..theres no point signing him on a 3 year deal and then dropping him after 4 games! The thing with the halfback role is that I believe the creativity that alot of people allude to in a good no.7 is often more evident in a good five-eight. The way modern day footy is played..and this is the case with alot of teams..is that the five-eight acts almost like a second halfback on the other side of the ruck...so you have your halfback on one side and the five-eight on the other and what teams do is play a half back who has a strong kicking game as their best attribute along with organisational abilities and a five eight who has a strong running game and can pull defenders out of position, put outside backs in space etc. This template is by no means gospel for every team but what I will say is that alot of teams play halfback and a five-eight with at least one outstanding attribute that complements the other's! That being said along with that one outstanding attribute nearly all halves make the most of the talent around them like you say! Halves who have multiple outstanding abilities (which I believe is extremely rare) often become legends of the game! What I believe is the problem with Peter Wallace is that hes got no outstanding abilities in his game to complement Soward's kicking game!

In saying that...he can serve a purpose and like you said "evolve within structure" I believe Peter Wallace is a decent enough halfback to bring your fullback into play (who could well be your best player) at key moments in attack (who these days is almost the most important player on the park along with the hooker)

I mentioned in an earlier post about this media beat up about Penrith going through a rebuilding phase and whether or not it was a cop out for Penrith having another ordinary season...we often keep hearing that Penrith has the best junior nursery in the NRL...if so where are all your young halves? I just dont think a team going through a rebuilding phase would go and sign as many veterans as you guys did...your halves are you key players who you build your team around for years to come! You need to get young players in there now...because when Wallace and Soward go..you could well be back to square one.