Round 6 v Souths

[franklin2323]

You forgot to add John hasn't been in the 6 or 7 jersey this year. Played as a late inclusion compare that to someone that's train all off season with the team. They aren't that far apart.

 

[chrisD]

Ball in hand John has been noticeably more threatening. Wallace runs out of ideas and just starts kicking to the corner.

 

[Big Mick]

You two should have a rugby league podcast where you just bitch to each other about everything.

 

[chrisD]

And you guys could team up to discuss how great Wallace's "structure" and kicking game was in a game where we scored two points.

 

[franklin2323]

Yes we are the only to people to mention our lack of attacking spark this year...

 

[franklin2323]

And you guys could team up to discuss how great Wallace's "structure" and kicking game was in a game where we scored two points.

no doubt it will including mentioning round 1. Sure we scored 30 but Newcastle lost their spine.

60% possession. 38 tackles in their 20 the 1st half for 2 points... We have great attack.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Don't worry, apparently it is all timing, and players that have a history of not being all that threatening on attack, and a coach who has a history of not really having very many effective attacking plays nor really embracing attacking football in general, are all going to suddenly be unstoppable in attack.

It's possible, of course, but in my opinion not likely. The weight of evidence is, in my opinion, not encouraging. BUT they have my support every time they go out on the field. I just like speculating on what could be done better.

 

[murraymob]

you can butter up anything if you buy enough tubs of butter,

it was wet
the halves are new
john is better
peachey over kingston
all excuses

but one thing that is hard to argue is if any team that has the amount of ball we had in the first half should score

untill we get some sort of plan in attack it will be a struggle.playing 1 pass run 1 pass run including using a center Idris is not going to challenge any defence line

This may change but right now i would put a paddlock on the gym and do nothing but ball work for the next few weeks.All the teams the throw the ball about are the teams doing best so far this year

 

[Big Mick]

And you guys could team up to discuss how great Wallace's "structure" and kicking game was in a game where we scored two points.

So please let me get this straight. So because I don't want to drop Wallace for Issac John after he has played 4 games for us...I'm a Wallace apologist? Heaven forbid I'd like some more evidence of him in a Penrith uniform before passing judgement. Shame on me!

Was Friday a good game plan or good attack? - NO. I don't remember any time I actually said that - I'd love for you to point that out to me. With as much ball as we had in the 1st half we should have been at least 1-2 tries in front. It was a ridiculous and frustrating game plan that was installed.

All I've been saying is to just give them a bit of time to develop their combination before wanting to change every single little bloody thing.

Do I like how our attack has been? NO...but Issac John was involved for three of those games....was our attack so good when he played that he just screamed for selection was it?

In those games we scored 18, 17 and 16 points - Well SH!T that attacking record speaks for itself!

Don't get me wrong - I don't dislike John - I rate him very highly as a player and in particular as a depth option at 5/8 or half in case of an injury. It is great to have someone of quality there to step in...but I just don't believe he is as good as Soward/Wallace RIGHT NOW - it could definitely change down the line - but as of right now I just don't believe it is so.

NOW:
1) Do I want our centres to get more early ball? ABSOLUTELY - We have arguably the 2nd/3rd best centres combination in the competition I'd like to see them get more ball to create opportunities or to take on the line themselves.

2) Do I want Kingston gone to allow for a creative player on the bench as impact? I've said that countless times that I want Peachey back in there and Seg to start.

3) Do I want Cleary to open it up and let the ball fly? Absolutely! when the weather permits it to be so but 4/6 games it hasn't unfortunately and in the other 2 we got beaten by an underrated Parra team (Who as proven last night will be incredibly difficult to beat at home) and we beat a Knights team with that many injuries I could have played halfback and won.

As such, given those two games, I don't really have enough evidence to support that with this playing group that it wouldn't be so. Now I agree with Billy that historically....Cleary hasn't done that with us...but he hasn't exactly had this level of talent with us either in ORDER to do that and that takes time to develop. I sincerely hope it does and if not I'd be supremely disappointed also.

4) Do I want Issac John to take over as half? NO I see no reason to change a combination that is 3.5 games old just for the sake of trying something different. For all the talk of John being a late inclusion - he was training with the team all week because Wallace couldn't train and he was constantly involved in pre-season work....so that's garbage.


So in between all the Wallace bashing and the quips about "oh yeah...there is nothing wrong with our attack is there!" - All I've been saying, and have said in this thread, is to just give the guys some time for Christ's sake. Let them develop the plan. We are still trying to find our identity as a team. We are building a foundation based on defense and then we'll develop the attack as combinations mature.

If it doesn't mature and we are losing games I'll be right there with you wanting changes made to improve our team. But I'm not willing to pass sweeping judgement on a teams fortunes when we are 0.500 for the season after 6 games and have shown to be a much better team than last year already even in the early stages of this current roster.

Yeah...Friday sucked but it isn't the be all and end all and it isn't the end of the season. Yeah we lacked any sort of attacking prowess but is the only answer we have to just change everything and cause more disjointed combinations just because maybe it MIGHT work? Come on now.

 

[umina panther]

Great post Mick

 

[chrisD]

You were all acting like it's a foregone conclusion Wallace is better than John. I'm asking for someone to actually back the statement up. For mine our attack easily looked it's best on the right against Parra when John was running things there, and they came up with results to prove it. They scored two and should have had three but Moylan stuffed the pass and threw an intercept, and that was behind a dominated pack. In comparison Wallace looks bereft of ideas and having to resort to chipping down into the corner.

Now what of this do people disagree with?

 

[Luke Bowden]

Nailed it Mick

 

[franklin2323]

So by mid-season. I can expect Brown to break tackles or offload as we need? Or Simmons/Mansour to get the speed we need?

Bottom line we are scoring 15.8 points a game not enough. The good thing we are conceding similar. A few tweaks are needed. We most be the only team not scoring points but halves are fine

Again Big Mick. Look at the jersey numbers John has been in. Wallace hurt his groin AFTER training the last session before the Bulldogs game. How much time do you think John would of spent in 7 before game day?

You mention Parra yet don't mention Kev Naiqama's drop with line open or Kingston's similar. Add the intercept pass from Moylan he holds that back we score. That's 3 close chances with only a week with Soward.

 

[Scotty03]

Wallace was easily our best on the night. Chased hard, kicked well and scrambled when needed.

Agree with the majority - Mansour and DWZ had bad games.

We've had a shocking run with the weather lately which doesn't help our cause. Yes, Souths also had to play in the same conditions I just think the team having to play in wet weather each week is limiting our attacking plays which they no doubt practice during the week.

Am confident we'll play much better against an overrated Titans team next week.

 

[mxlegend99]

John has 0 try assists. Moylan should be ahead of him for taking The halfback spot if Wallace doesn't improve.

We need pace in our backline, Moylan, Simmons and Mansour are all slow. When we have Naiqama, DWZ, Jennings and Nabouli all with speed and strength, aswell as the skill for first grade. There's no way we can justify so many slow players.

Moylan is a talent and might work well in the halves. But if he doesn't, he falls into the Coote category. Mansour is too important for metres at the moment and if we decide to put in a winger with pace, we should keep him in the team by putting him into the second row so we atleast have someone who can be relied upon for some ugly hitup work. Simmons is too slow but solid all around. Good depth player, but not a first choice winger.

By round 26 I would like to see us building toward:

1. Kevin Naiqama / Dallin Watene-Zelezniak
2. George Jennings (LW)
3. Dean Whare (LC)
4. Jamal Idris (RC)
5. Eto Nabouli (RW)
6. Jamie Soward
7. Matt Moylan / Peter Wallace
8. Tim Grant
9. James Segeyaro
10. Nigel Plum
11. Josh Mansour / Adam Docker (depending on Mansours ability to play second row)
12. Sika Manu
13. Elijah Taylor

14. Tyrone Peachey
15. Sam McKendry
16. Brent Kite / Reegan Campbell-Gillard / Sam Anderson
17. Matt Robinson / Vaipuna Tia-Kilifi / Bryce Cartright / Anthony Chrrington

Speed and power in the back 3. One of the best centre combinations, good halves. A front row that should pump out big metres, few errors and have enough size to match most. A second row with a monster on one side, and a guy punching above his weight the other. Bench with a hard working front row, an impact player who can play where needed and a line breaking second rower with decent size.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

That team looks good on paper. Though I would have Robinson in the starting side instead of Mansour. Harsh on Docker, but I don't like Taylor in the second row at all, and he is never in a million years going to lose his place, so he goes to lock.

I don't like the idea of Manu going to prop if it is just a way to keep the Brown-Taylor-Docker combination, but if it allows Robinson/Cartwright etc to be fast-tracked in and pushes Kite further down the pecking order, I'd be fine with it.

 

[abpanther]

Wallace was a passenger which is what we all feared when we bought him

 

[mxlegend99]

That team looks good on paper. Though I would have Robinson in the starting side instead of Mansour. Harsh on Docker, but I don't like Taylor in the second row at all, and he is never in a million years going to lose his place, so he goes to lock.

I don't like the idea of Manu going to prop if it is just a way to keep the Brown-Taylor-Docker combination, but if it allows Robinson/Cartwright etc to be fast-tracked in and pushes Kite further down the pecking order, I'd be fine with it.

I love Docker. He's a beast in defence. But he's too small to be a genuine threat in attack. The idea of him bulking up to play front row is great, but the suggestion was for him to be mid 90's. When he should be 100kgs minimum for the front row.

Taylor at lock plays 80 minutes, gets through a mountain of work and allows us to have some genuine attacking options out wide. Robinson would have probably already secured his spot in the team if it weren't for injury, but it has set him back and he has a way to go to get there.

Injuries could further effect that side. But for now... I think it's the best fit for us.

 

[betcats]

Keep forgetting about Matt Robinson. With the nice lines he runs he would of been handy to have on friday.

 

[abpanther]

All these excuses about the weather are ridiculous, firstly our attack has looked anemic all season, secondly the weather didn't stop Souths from looking far more threatening than our team.

We have two non-creative halves, we can only carry one of them. Soward's kicking game has been great, I think he needs to be paired with someone who can take the line on and create.

Wallace is a passenger