Round 9 vs Storm

[mickeylane]

Surely it up to the playmaker to create the shape, movement and structure. If not them.. who then.

if we had Cody Walker at 5/8 we would be scoring an extra 2 tries per game from the opportunities he creates out wide...all we need is a quality playmaker...

 

[justadragon]

if we had Cody Walker at 5/8 we would be scoring an extra 2 tries per game from the opportunities he creates out wide...all we need is a quality playmaker...

We have them, they are not being used correctly with a stifled game plan and having forwards playing as halves is useless to

 

[SBD82]

So who do you see as the game changer type.

I think you’re over simplifying the game by saying “game changer”.

People seem to look at players like Munster or Paps or Cody Walker and think that those big plays happen in a vacuum. But Munster can’t dummy and run down the left if Olam isn’t presenting a genuine threat. Paps can’t do the same down the right if Wishart doesn’t maintain his width and shape. Walker’s best play is sniffing around the middle when Cook has the defence retreating.

If we can get our shapes right and cause the opposition defence to hesitate or make a bad decision, the best players that we have to take advantage of that are Hunt, Bud and Amone.

 

[baggygreen man]

I think you’re over simplifying the game by saying “game changer”.

I needed to address that query to Carlton as he first alluded to a 'game changer'.

Walker’s best play is sniffing around the middle when Cook has the defence retreating.

That is what we need a former beach sprint champ as dummy half. Seriously, we had a Cook clone in McIness and let him go, replacing him with a tortoise. Have yet to see much of Muhleisen. Fairly impressive stats with 7th most dummy half runs and third best defensive record .

 

[Crush]

Problem with Dragons footy is they don’t have the points to chase.
They can grind, that’s something, but it doesn’t work against teams that score points.
They beat Tigers 12-6, grind out a win.
They beat Rooster 14-12, didn’t score a point in second half, grind out a win.
When Dragons get 10 points behind it blows out because they can’t create the attack and lose confidence.
Only way we win games with this coach is to lead and keep it tight.

 

[SBD82]

Problem with Dragons footy is they don’t have the points to chase.
They can grind, that’s something, but it doesn’t work against teams that score points.
They beat Tigers 12-6, grind out a win.
They beat Rooster 14-12, didn’t score a point in second half, grind out a win.
When Dragons get 10 points behind it blows out because they can’t create the attack and lose confidence.
Only way we win games with this coach is to lead and keep it tight.

Just to be clear, I’m not sure that I agree with Hook. But he seems to be of the opinion that sides need to be able to grind before they can play expansive footy. Like a “crawl before you can walk” type situation.

Now that the side has proven that they have the ability to grind, I’m hoping to see some more expansive footy. Whether Hook will make that change, or has the ability to do so, I’m not sure.

 

[be55]

It’s all well and good to talk about creative playmakers, but if the attack has no shape or movement off the ball, then the playmakers have no options.

The clever improviser on the field still needs tools to work with.

You can be as clever as you like, but if the defence doesn’t have to worry about anyone else, you’re a sitting duck.

NAILED IT!!!!!

The coach dictates the game plan
The coach comes up with ways to pull apart a defence
The coach organizes attacking structure during the week at training and in pre-season

A good coach even has different structure for different teams to exploit specific opposition weaknesses

I hate to use McGregor's use of Dufty as an example...but Dufty was being wasted in attack for years. Never having us structurally able to use his ball playing skills in attack. As soon as McGregor changed our attacking structure to allow Dufty to get the ball out the back of shape off a two pass shift, all of a sudden Dufty had the time and space to ball play. (Just to be clear thank god they are both gone)

My point being, if our attack is boring and pedestrian, if our attack is too side to side with no lead runners or decoys or even shape and options for our playmakers, then that comes down to one man and one man alone, Griffin.

Surely not even Griffin's most ardent supporters on this forum could say our attack has ever looked good under his coaching.

But I'm sure they'll try...

 

[Jeremy Dragon]

Seriously, we had a Cook clone in McInes

Hahaha

 

[matPORTS]

Johnno McJohnno wrote: We had speed. We had Dufty, Field, Saab, Garrick. Frizzel and McInnis in the forwards.

Of those who would we want back? I would say just Garrick and McInnes, not Saab because he clearly didn't want to play for us. Of the above list only Dufty and McInnes left under Griffin's watch. So we are still suffering from the shortcomings of our old Supercoach. We could devise a longer list for other decent young players we lost under Mary - Robson, Leilua, Host to name a few.

While still on speed we do have Sloan and Ramsey in the squad. Hopefully both will use their time in NSW Cup to strengthen their all round skills and then really add value to the NRL side with their speed. Round 8 I was very impressed with Ramsey's attacking prowess playing in the centres in NSW Cup but his front on defence let him down, often having to use his speed to catch his opponent from behind.

We as passionate supporters are understandably very deflated again today. Much has been written about the Storm being on a completely different level. Bridging the quality gap appears to be an ever lengthening process. But I would argue Griffin made a start by sending 9 players on their way (Alvaro No 10) and bringing in Sua, Molo and Suli who have all been good signings. I would also award at least pass marks to Mbye. We know Tariq will be going at the end of the season and assume several others. Hopefully we will pick up some more quality players in their place. But we are not the only club struggling to close the gap - think of the Dog's active recruitment over two seasons for a total of about 5 wins.

To remain supporters of the Dragons we have no choice but to continue the remarkable resilience that has been required of us since 2011, the sort of resilience we want to see from our players. What choice do we have in the winter months? After 56 years of supporting the Dragons I know it's too late for me to be giving up!

Couldn't agree more.

We are so far off the pace (quite literally in fact). The main thing on display yesterday was proof of how far we still have to climb to become a genuine top four contender again.

I'd have Garrick back in a heartbeat ! In fact, weren't we trying to get him back as a swap deal for Saab last year but instead opted for the monetary compensation from Manly? He is better than any other wing options we have at the present time (and potentially a better option for full back as well - speed and general skills). Sloan and Ramsay (+ the Feagais) - while untapped potential, have really stalled in their development due to lack of reggies competition in 2020 and 2021.

I must say I wasn't overly impressed with Suli & Molo yesterday. Suli had a golden opportunity to show up his opposite (makeshift three quarter) yesterday. We really need Molo ripping in the post-contact meters as well.

While it probably helps us to potentially avoid wooden spoon territory, the likes of the Bulldogs (and the Knights as well) struggling to close the gap despite solid recruitment during the past couple of years doesn't fill me with any extra confidence going forward either.

Who do we target as the replacement for Sims in 2023? I know we have a handful of players, mainly in the forwards, with us on the cheap until the end of 2023. But these guys will be a year older next year. We need to use the Sims salary cap money very wisely.

 

[Ghostrider22]

We scored our try when Sullivan took a quick scoot close to the line and played the ball quickly. Amone off the back off this also played straight, he stepped but he was going forward and looking for the offload.

If Hunt had gotten his hands on the ball after Sullivans run he would have given it to Lawrie for a settler. The good teams dont give the defence a chance to set themselves. Once they have a run like Sullivans they keep attacking and force the defence to make decisions. I dont know whether its the coach or Hunt but the amount of ball Hunt gets is ridiculous, and maybe this is why Hunt likes McCullough, McCullough plays what Hunt wants not whats needed.

Forget about Playmakers for a minute what we lack in attack is a game manager, with a good game manager our forwards would be more effective, our backs would be getting it when they need it and the tempo would be matched to the game situation.

Sounds like the coaches orders

 

[Walpole]

if we had Cody Walker at 5/8 we would be scoring an extra 2 tries per game from the opportunities he creates out wide...all we need is a quality playmaker...

You're imagining Cody Walker from last season - this season, without Reynolds on the other side and Latrell injured, he's doing nothing and the Bunnies are 4-5 like us. No playmaker does it alone.

 

[mickeylane]

We have them, they are not being used correctly with a stifled game plan and having forwards playing as halves is useless to

Show me a Codey Walker like for like and dont say Amone...

 

[mickeylane]

You're imagining Cody Walker from last season - this season, without Reynolds on the other side and Latrell injured, he's doing nothing and the Bunnies are 4-5 like us. No playmaker does it alone.

No he's still creating more chances than our mob even when he's out of form just watch the way he attacks the blind side to create space..

 

[mickeylane]

Couldn't agree more.

We are so far off the pace (quite literally in fact). The main thing on display yesterday was proof of how far we still have to climb to become a genuine top four contender again.

I'd have Garrick back in a heartbeat ! In fact, weren't we trying to get him back as a swap deal for Saab last year but instead opted for the monetary compensation from Manly? He is better than any other wing options we have at the present time (and potentially a better option for full back as well - speed and general skills). Sloan and Ramsay (+ the Feagais) - while untapped potential, have really stalled in their development due to lack of reggies competition in 2020 and 2021.

I must say I wasn't overly impressed with Suli & Molo yesterday. Suli had a golden opportunity to show up his opposite (makeshift three quarter) yesterday. We really need Molo ripping in the post-contact meters as well.

While it probably helps us to potentially avoid wooden spoon territory, the likes of the Bulldogs (and the Knights as well) struggling to close the gap despite solid recruitment during the past couple of years doesn't fill me with any extra confidence going forward either.

Who do we target as the replacement for Sims in 2023? I know we have a handful of players, mainly in the forwards, with us on the cheap until the end of 2023. But these guys will be a year older next year. We need to use the Sims salary cap money very wisely.

Molo was in the best 3 forwards on the field yesterday

 

[SEAT 1A]

At least that's over and we won't have to play them again.

Couldn't keep up with MEL and until Bird fumbled the ball were competitive. The pain will show results later in the remaining game with the young guns.

Amone getting better each game and he's on a huge learning curve.
He's running more, more confident on taking on the line, getting used to the speed of the game and his defence will improve the fitter he gets.

When Sullivan came on last week, he had an impact on the team and didn't look out of place yesterday and didn't let anyone down with his defence and ahead of schedule.

Hopefully Slone doesn't kick stones and Ramsey needs to force in way back into the team.

 

[mickeylane]

NAILED IT!!!!!

The coach dictates the game plan
The coach comes up with ways to pull apart a defence
The coach organizes attacking structure during the week at training and in pre-season

A good coach even has different structure for different teams to exploit specific opposition weaknesses

I hate to use McGregor's use of Dufty as an example...but Dufty was being wasted in attack for years. Never having us structurally able to use his ball playing skills in attack. As soon as McGregor changed our attacking structure to allow Dufty to get the ball out the back of shape off a two pass shift, all of a sudden Dufty had the time and space to ball play. (Just to be clear thank god they are both gone)

My point being, if our attack is boring and pedestrian, if our attack is too side to side with no lead runners or decoys or even shape and options for our playmakers, then that comes down to one man and one man alone, Griffin.

Surely not even Griffin's most ardent supporters on this forum could say our attack has ever looked good under his coaching.

But I'm sure they'll try...

i must say i was a big fan of Griffiths being appointed but sadly hes been very dissapointing, he went for the big and experienced forwards play and built a roster around size forgetting about the attcaking side of our game...the hooker was his biggest mistake followed by not taking the risks to blood all te youngsters coming through to see which ones would be up to 1st grade...his game plans are looking pre historic..i hope im wrong as i do believe there is a top 8 squad in our group somewhere... but thats it...we barely make the top 8 and go out the first week of finals is our ceiling...

 

[Illusion]

At least that's over and we won't have to play them again.

Couldn't keep up with MEL and until Bird fumbled the ball were competitive. The pain will show results later in the remaining game with the young guns.

Amone getting better each game and he's on a huge learning curve.
He's running more, more confident on taking on the line, getting used to the speed of the game and his defence will improve the fitter he gets.

When Sullivan came on last week, he had an impact on the team and didn't look out of place yesterday and didn't let anyone down with his defence and ahead of schedule.
la
Hopefully Slone doesn't kick stones and Ramsey needs to force in way back into the team.

Dont know why Sully is not starting at 9 he played there at the end of last year 3 games or so and was a stand out .......

 

[VodkaSaint]

if we had Cody Walker at 5/8 we would be scoring an extra 2 tries per game from the opportunities he creates out wide...all we need is a quality playmaker...

and a 9

 

[Carlton]

I needed to address that query to Carlton as he first alluded to a 'game changer'.


That is what we need a former beach sprint champ as dummy half. Seriously, we had a Cook clone in McIness and let him go, replacing him with a tortoise. Have yet to see much of Muhleisen. Fairly impressive stats with 7th most dummy half runs and third best defensive record .

No I didnt refer to a game changer, I said game manager. Managing the game does not mean you are putting on big plays all the time or that people are scoring off you. It means you know when to step in and direct the team or put on a boring play to gain time, territory or a rest. It also means knowing when to let the team have its head and when to bring it back to structure.

A game manager is not necessarily an x factor player or playmaker but in alot of cases they are. A game manager brings football IQ to the team.

 

[KogarahWarrior]

if we had Cody Walker at 5/8 we would be scoring an extra 2 tries per game from the opportunities he creates out wide...all we need is a quality playmaker...

And contrary to popular belief, I think Amone and Bud, in time will be an extraordinary halves combo. However, as much as it sounds stupid to say because he's been our best all season, Hunt has inhibited the youngsters to a degree. Junior had some of his best games when Norman was his halves partner, because at least it gave him the confidence to do things on his own. From what I've seen, Hunt just doesn't trust the kids. Maybe it's not his fault though. Maybe it's Hook's orders... not sure