Round three vs The Storm

[Alintheeast]

Staines: 184cm, 87kg

Bromwich: 183cm, 105kg

Sivo: 186cm, 105kg

JAC: 183cm, 88kg.

He competed with the guys 20kg heavier without issue and is the same size as a top class rep winger.

I think it's been demonstrated enough now haha. Yeah I'm thorough.

I like Naden and wanted him to replace Mansour last year. I wouldn't argue with Naden to wing and Staines to fullback honestly BUT the discussion about Staines physicality should be sorted now if we aren't using emotion.

Research is only worthwhile if your data and sources are correct. South’s John O’Neill once said that when he joined Souths from Gunnedah he suddenly became two inches taller, a stone heavier and two years younger. Never bet your house on an NRL clubs stats.

 

[WestyLife]

Research is only worthwhile if your data and sources are correct. South’s John O’Neill once said that when he joined Souths from Gunnedah he suddenly became two inches taller, a stone heavier and two years younger. Never bet your house on an NRL clubs stats.

Cool anecdote but it doesn't really change the outcome of the discussion. We have a long list of examples to show he's physically capable in first grade with maybe one thing he isn't great at which is the Mansour style set starting but he isn't here for that anyway.

 

[franklin2323]

Charlie is the only player in the comp who stops that JAC try.

Most wingers stay on their wing and JAC doesn't score so 1 all really

 

[franklin2323]

The discussion about physicality is happening because he got dominated badly and repeatedly when bringing the ball out of our end. Suggesting he shouldn't be in the team is pretty extreme, but let's not pretend that isn't a problem or something he doesn't need to work on.

As Westy says though, it's not a size thing. More likely a technique he hasn't had to learn at lower levels of the game that will come to him in time. He doesn't need to be To'o level either as he has considerable assets in the other areas of his game. As many here have said, most wingers probably don't score his try and they definitely don't stop JAC from scoring in that situation.

That is what the issue is. Not playing lower grades last year

 

[franklin2323]

His size is not an issue. Looking at Westies post he is very similar sized to JAC who is a rep winger. 1cm taller and 1kg lighter. He has similar speed as JAC and I think he will prove to have more skill and vision than JAC. The kid is fine, there has been no signs that he isnt up to it.

You just seem to be looking for these reasons he cant do it rather than just judging him on what he actually does.

JAC didn't just burst into FG though. Played a handful of games then went back down. Nothing wrong with getting eased into FG

 

[WestyLife]

Most wingers stay on their wing and JAC doesn't score so 1 all really

The winger follows the centre. Most defence is compressed these days and push out towards the sideline. The offence's job is to engage defenders on the inside and stop the slide.

 

[mxlegend99]

Most wingers stay on their wing and JAC doesn't score so 1 all really

What the hell does staying on the wing have to do with Staines being able to turn and chase a kick and get there before the fox does?

In that situation very few wingers would have beaten him to the ball. No Panthers winger in recent years would have likely gotten there before him. Mansour would have been minimum 10 metres behind Fox by that point.

Having to turn and chase on a kick fo

 

[Jane Murray]

Cool anecdote but it doesn't really change the outcome of the discussion. We have a long list of examples to show he's physically capable in first grade with maybe one thing he isn't great at which is the Mansour style set starting but he isn't here for that anyway.

Staines will get there.

 

[franklin2323]

What the hell does staying on the wing have to do with Staines being able to turn and chase a kick and get there before the fox does?

In that situation very few wingers would have beaten him to the ball. No Panthers winger in recent years would have likely gotten there before him. Mansour would have been minimum 10 metres behind Fox by that point.

Having to turn and chase on a kick fo

The scrum try when JAC was unmarked

 

[Girds89]

I thought Charlie played well. He just struggles bringing the ball back and it really made it hard for us to get/maintain momentum we may have had. Especially after good hit ups from Brian or Dylan.

He may only be 1kg lighter and a cm shorter than jac but it was fairly obvious just from looking at them JAC was much more defined and built into his body. Not really sure how accurate Melbourne storms site is either. Has him listed as 88kg but I remember reading an article probably 18 months back that he put on 8kgs of muscle when he was 83kgs taking him to 91kg.

I have no doubt JAC would have Charlie well covered in the gym. For his size JAC is fairly strong and size and since he's put on that extra size he definitely doesn't get overpowered bringing the ball back, he's a strong runner of the ball.

I think it will take Charlie probably at least another full pre season maybe 2 before he really grows into his body and adds 6-8 kgs of lean muscle. Cant do it to quick, especially with the younger ones. Once he does add the extra lean muscle than I think we will see the best of Charlie.

Someone like Daine Laurie can get away with it now as he is a much different style runner of the football. More like luai, he junks and weaves and is extremely elusive, making it harder for blokes to get a good shot on. It especially makes it hard for multiple people to get in a tackle because he is so elusive he tends to be able to isolate himself to the point where someone is forced to make a one on one tackle.

Not saying Charlie isn't elusive but he has a different running style definitely more in the JAC mold. And JAC doesn't tend to jink and weave etc, he changes pace whilst running at speed already. It can effectively make him amd players like Charlie an easier target for multiple tacklers to get in on and drive back. JAC is strong enough to either go to ground quick or have the leg drive to not go backwards.

Charlie will get there. He was certainly the only player in the nrl that wouldve stopped JAC from scoring that try off the kick. Was nice to see then both in open flight together.

 

[mxlegend99]

The scrum try when JAC was unmarked

He was only unmarked because Hynes was on the outside of Momorovski and Staines had to stay on him or Hynes scores.

Not many wingers are going to stop a try being scored in that situation. Definitely not most. Would be a very short list. Once Storm got on the outside of our centre with a winger it was an impossible situation for him.

Atleast forcing the guy to pass risks a possible mistake, which obviously didnt eventuate..but it forced the try to be scored wider. The goal was missed.

In 3 rounds one try has been scored against Staines... And it was by one of the best wingers in the competition in a position where there wasn't much he could do.

 

[Jane Murray]

He was only unmarked because Hynes was on the outside of Momorovski and Staines had to stay on him or Hynes scores.

Not many wingers are going to stop a try being scored in that situation. Definitely not most. Would be a very short list. Once Storm got on the outside of our centre with a winger it was an impossible situation for him.

Atleast forcing the guy to pass risks a possible mistake, which obviously didnt eventuate..but it forced the try to be scored wider. The goal was missed.

In 3 rounds one try has been scored against Staines... And it was by one of the best wingers in the competition in a position where there wasn't much he could do.

And he saved at least two, so that one try conceded cancels themselves out.

 

[betcats]

The scrum try was in no way Staines fault, that is just silly. If he stays on his wing then there is a big gap between Staines and his centre and they score closer to the posts and maybe munster converts it and maybe we end up in golden point rather than winning outright. They created a three on four situation and we didnt adjust that was not Charlie's fault at all. Its a set play Cronk called in the commentary before it happened and noticed as soon as our defence didnt adjust to it.

 

[betcats]

He was only unmarked because Hynes was on the outside of Momorovski and Staines had to stay on him or Hynes scores.

Not many wingers are going to stop a try being scored in that situation. Definitely not most. Would be a very short list. Once Storm got on the outside of our centre with a winger it was an impossible situation for him.

Atleast forcing the guy to pass risks a possible mistake, which obviously didnt eventuate..but it forced the try to be scored wider. The goal was missed.

In 3 rounds one try has been scored against Staines... And it was by one of the best wingers in the competition in a position where there wasn't much he could do.

To suggest he should've been staying on his wing in that situation is ludicrous. They had an overlap you cant mark every player when that happens.

 

[WestyLife]

I thought Charlie played well. He just struggles bringing the ball back and it really made it hard for us to get/maintain momentum we may have had. Especially after good hit ups from Brian or Dylan.

He may only be 1kg lighter and a cm shorter than jac but it was fairly obvious just from looking at them JAC was much more defined and built into his body. Not really sure how accurate Melbourne storms site is either. Has him listed as 88kg but I remember reading an article probably 18 months back that he put on 8kgs of muscle when he was 83kgs taking him to 91kg.

I have no doubt JAC would have Charlie well covered in the gym. For his size JAC is fairly strong and size and since he's put on that extra size he definitely doesn't get overpowered bringing the ball back, he's a strong runner of the ball.

I think it will take Charlie probably at least another full pre season maybe 2 before he really grows into his body and adds 6-8 kgs of lean muscle. Cant do it to quick, especially with the younger ones. Once he does add the extra lean muscle than I think we will see the best of Charlie.

Someone like Daine Laurie can get away with it now as he is a much different style runner of the football. More like luai, he junks and weaves and is extremely elusive, making it harder for blokes to get a good shot on. It especially makes it hard for multiple people to get in a tackle because he is so elusive he tends to be able to isolate himself to the point where someone is forced to make a one on one tackle.

Not saying Charlie isn't elusive but he has a different running style definitely more in the JAC mold. And JAC doesn't tend to jink and weave etc, he changes pace whilst running at speed already. It can effectively make him amd players like Charlie an easier target for multiple tacklers to get in on and drive back. JAC is strong enough to either go to ground quick or have the leg drive to not go backwards.

Charlie will get there. He was certainly the only player in the nrl that wouldve stopped JAC from scoring that try off the kick. Was nice to see then both in open flight together.

Everyone got pushed back by the storm. It was Burton's boot that saved field position.

 

[Girds89]

Everyone got pushed back by the storm. It was Burton's boot that saved field position.

It's not just against the storm though. He made 71m and 75m in rd1 and 2 which were completely shit out dominant performances. And 77m against the storm.

I actually think it was our forwards that got dominated in the first half. Too and Edwards were dominant in almost every run.
Edwards made 134m in 40
Too 230 odd
Momo 98
critta 111

Making 70 odd meters is fine if we are winning by 30 zip. Only 70 odd in a tight arm wrestle is not great. Our forwards were gassed from the intensity and how much defending they did.

Edwards and too took it upon themselves to give them a break and were very effective. Critta and momo I thought did ok but needed to help out more when the forwards were out on there feet.

Unfortunately Charlie can't be used for 10m hit ups yet coming out of our end. Not one up stuff anyway like too and Edwards do. He is just not strong enough and it was a momentum killer after Edwards or too made a good run then he'd take the next and get driven back.

I'm not trying to be negative, purely just realistic. It's an area of his game which will probably take the longest to develop.

Hes never going to be a too or sauce. Don't need him to be but in the tight games when your forwards are spent from non stop defending and intensity, you really need your wingers/fb to step up and help you get out of trouble and most importantly give the bigger blokes a breather.

Not expecting him to make 150m+ a game. But imo until he can hit the ball up and not get driven back in tackles IC needs to work out some plays that can utilise his current strengths and still allow him to help out making meters out of our own end.

He did a lot of very good things against the storm and should be proud of how he performed in such an intense game against one of the best teams. Just providing an honest non biased assessment of where I think he is at.

 

[Jane Murray]

It's not just against the storm though. He made 71m and 75m in rd1 and 2 which were completely shit out dominant performances. And 77m against the storm.

I actually think it was our forwards that got dominated in the first half. Too and Edwards were dominant in almost every run.
Edwards made 134m in 40
Too 230 odd
Momo 98
critta 111

Making 70 odd meters is fine if we are winning by 30 zip. Only 70 odd in a tight arm wrestle is not great. Our forwards were gassed from the intensity and how much defending they did.

Edwards and too took it upon themselves to give them a break and were very effective. Critta and momo I thought did ok but needed to help out more when the forwards were out on there feet.

Unfortunately Charlie can't be used for 10m hit ups yet coming out of our end. Not one up stuff anyway like too and Edwards do. He is just not strong enough and it was a momentum killer after Edwards or too made a good run then he'd take the next and get driven back.

I'm not trying to be negative, purely just realistic. It's an area of his game which will probably take the longest to develop.

Hes never going to be a too or sauce. Don't need him to be but in the tight games when your forwards are spent from non stop defending and intensity, you really need your wingers/fb to step up and help you get out of trouble and most importantly give the bigger blokes a breather.

Not expecting him to make 150m+ a game. But imo until he can hit the ball up and not get driven back in tackles IC needs to work out some plays that can utilise his current strengths and still allow him to help out making meters out of our own end.

He did a lot of very good things against the storm and should be proud of how he performed in such an intense game against one of the best teams. Just providing an honest non biased assessment of where I think he is at.

Staines saved a least two tries. He is doing okay.

 

[WestyLife]

It's not just against the storm though. He made 71m and 75m in rd1 and 2 which were completely shit out dominant performances. And 77m against the storm.

I actually think it was our forwards that got dominated in the first half. Too and Edwards were dominant in almost every run.
Edwards made 134m in 40
Too 230 odd
Momo 98
critta 111

Making 70 odd meters is fine if we are winning by 30 zip. Only 70 odd in a tight arm wrestle is not great. Our forwards were gassed from the intensity and how much defending they did.

Edwards and too took it upon themselves to give them a break and were very effective. Critta and momo I thought did ok but needed to help out more when the forwards were out on there feet.

Unfortunately Charlie can't be used for 10m hit ups yet coming out of our end. Not one up stuff anyway like too and Edwards do. He is just not strong enough and it was a momentum killer after Edwards or too made a good run then he'd take the next and get driven back.

I'm not trying to be negative, purely just realistic. It's an area of his game which will probably take the longest to develop.

Hes never going to be a too or sauce. Don't need him to be but in the tight games when your forwards are spent from non stop defending and intensity, you really need your wingers/fb to step up and help you get out of trouble and most importantly give the bigger blokes a breather.

Not expecting him to make 150m+ a game. But imo until he can hit the ball up and not get driven back in tackles IC needs to work out some plays that can utilise his current strengths and still allow him to help out making meters out of our own end.

He did a lot of very good things against the storm and should be proud of how he performed in such an intense game against one of the best teams. Just providing an honest non biased assessment of where I think he is at.

He's not meant for that work. It goes back to the balance point mentioned about Mansour. Edwards/To'o are for starting sets and Staines is the speed. We have a full toolbox now rather than too many hammers so to speak.

 

[Smug Panther]

The scrum try was in no way Staines fault, that is just silly. If he stays on his wing then there is a big gap between Staines and his centre and they score closer to the posts and maybe munster converts it and maybe we end up in golden point rather than winning outright. They created a three on four situation and we didnt adjust that was not Charlie's fault at all. Its a set play Cronk called in the commentary before it happened and noticed as soon as our defence didnt adjust to it.

Was Mays "fault" but he's not a fullback

 

[Girds89]

He's not meant for that work. It goes back to the balance point mentioned about Mansour. Edwards/To'o are for starting sets and Staines is the speed. We have a full toolbox now rather than too many hammers so to speak.

He still has to chip in. You think it's OK for him to stand out on the wing whilst every other player is gassed because he's waiting for a glory moment to use his speed?

Mate Edwards and too couldn't have done another bit more... Edwards was the most exhausted I'd ever seen him and too was sometimes taking two hit ups a set.

Every bloke on the field has to contribute, not just wait for the glory plays.

You think im knocking him but some on here are to biased to just see its an area/skill he needs to develop.

Storm have probably had one of the hardest runs to start the year. JAC is averaging a out 120m over 3 very difficult games. It should be Staines goal to average those sorts of numbers in the next 12 or so months.