Rugby league in dire straits in NSW as Queensland leads the way

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Wests Tigers have done better because they are now based in leagues heartland, western Sydney.

No.

1/2 the side was based there before the merger and the crowds were abysmal.

 

[Sir Biffo]

Some of the Queenslanders on here remind me of Keith Shandy and his AFL expansion dreams. Looking from the outside in, but apparentley have a better knowledge than everyone who actually lives in the place. It sure is easy to solve all of Sydneys problems from up in Queensland right Sam?

 

[Sam I Am]

No.

1/2 the side was based there before the merger and the crowds were abysmal.

Blah blah excuse excuse... :lol:

Can't even respond when given a grownup's argument, Neverused Brain? Between you and Flaccid, I don't know who is a bigger waste of bandwidth. Are there any heavy hitters to back up your point of view, or must I keep dealing with the kindy kids?

 

[bobmar28]

Liverpool?

Parramatta, Wests and Canterbury all have junior teams from the Liverpool area.

Take your pick.

Parramatta has junior teams from the Fairfield area, Wests have Liverpool and I don't know about Canterbury, probably Bankstown, not Liverpool.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

I said:

Crap.

That's what you said.

A real depth of response there. One common retort that I have seen in these situations is "You've got nothing". It appears appropriate. Chump,

You don't have any argument.

Nil, nada, zip, zilch.

And it makes me laugh that you think you do. You have less understanding of the sporting landscape of Sydney than a stick has of the Theory of Relativity.

You're an imbecile.

First goes Cronulla... :lol:

ooooh, if they go you'll only have 8 more to deathride. Poor you... hahahahahhahahah

BTW, is the Gold Coast part of Brisbane yet?

:lol:

 

[Sam I Am]

It sure is easy to solve all of Sydneys problems from up in Queensland right Sam?

I am sure that it is quite difficult to solve Sydney's problems. However, what is frustrating is that no one down there actually wants to try.

Since the late 1980s in Queensland rugby league has been completely restructured. Today we have successful NRL teams and a successful Queensland Cup. Meanwhile, gutless administrators down south, who have been addicted to poker machine revenue, have lacked the gumption to take the game into the twenty first century. Soon those clubs will pay, with extinction.

 

[Sir Biffo]

I am sure that it is quite difficult to solve Sydney's problems. However, what is frustrating is that no one down there actually wants to try.

Since the late 1980s in Queensland rugby league has been completely restructured. Today we have successful NRL teams and a successful Queensland Cup. Meanwhile, gutless administrators down south, who have been addicted to poker machine revenue, have lacked the gumption to take the game into the twenty first century. Soon those clubs will pay, with extinction.

The Queensland NRL teams apart from the Broncos have only been successful in the last 5 years! The Cowboys only really started going in about 2002, and the Titans have been fantastic since they came back, but don't forget the three abortions before that.

Sydney teams are showing a positive trend. Crowds are increasing from year to year, memberships are increasing. TV revenue down there is going great guns. Maybe someone down there is doing something and it's slowly starting to work, just like it took roughly 15 years for the QRL to get their act together?

 

[Sam I Am]

Clearly you are illiterate as well is illogical. Nonetheless, in post 250 I clearly responded to you saying that:

If that is all it takes to kill a sport in a city, it must rest of a very fragile foundation. Sad.

You have responded again, with:

You don't have any argument.

If you want to add liar to the list of adjectives that negatively, but accurately, describe your conduct, it will do you no credit.:lol:

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Parramatta has junior teams from the Fairfield area, Wests have Liverpool and I don't know about Canterbury, probably Bankstown, not Liverpool.

errr, Bob, you really need to do your research before you make statement like "Liverpool doesn't have an NRL team".

Each of the three NRL teams has representation in the Liverpool area.

Moorebank Rams are in the Dogs Juniors.

Ashcroft, the Liverpool Catholic Club and All Saints are in the Magpies Juniors, which are part of the Wests Tigers.

Mt. Pritchard are in the Parramatta juniors.

 

[Sam I Am]

The Queensland NRL teams apart from the Broncos have only been successful in the last 5 years! The Cowboys only really started going in about 2002, and the Titans have been fantastic since they came back, but don't forget the three abortions before that.

Note that I didn't only talk about the NRL. Another Sydney fixation there. Nonetheless, the recent success of the NRL clubs reflects the years of hard work that came before hand. They were not overnight successes.

You neglect the very hard work of the QRL in establishing the Queensland Cup through difficult times. That is the sort of guts that needs to be shown down south.

Sydney teams are showing a positive trend. Crowds are increasing from year to year, memberships are increasing. TV revenue down there is going great guns. Maybe someone down there is doing something and it's slowly starting to work, just like it took roughly 15 years for the QRL to get their act together?

Some teams are showing a positive trend. Some crowds are going up, and that is great. Memberships, as I have said before, are an outstanding idea and I think that they can make a long term difference. As for revenue, sponsorships are not doing as well, and TV revenue could possibly be reduced in the next agreement. This will adversely effect clubs in a crowded sponsorship marketplace, hence the importance of bums on seats.

Again with respect to the QRL, it did take 15 years. It isn't easy to make huge changes, and it takes time. The Queensland Cup has been running since 1996. But now, in 2009, we can see the benefit of that persistance. Meanwhile the NSWRL continues to chop and change with their second tier competitions.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Blah blah excuse excuse... :lol:

Can't even respond when given a grownup's argument, Neverused Brain? Between you and Flaccid, I don't know who is a bigger waste of bandwidth. Are there any heavy hitters to back up your point of view, or must I keep dealing with the kindy kids?

God you're dumb.

Seriously, why are you bothering?

To anyone with a double figure IQ, you are an imbecile and have no idea what you're talking about on this subject.

I'll explain in terms you might understand though, because I'm a fan of helping the disabled wherever possible.

Ok, here we go;

Wen der C Eegles join wif der Bares, der crowds not get betta.

Wen der Draguns an der Stealers join toogeffa, der crowd get littul betta.

Wen der Tigaaas and der Megpeyes (dem black en wite birdy fings) join toogeffa, der crowd get bit betta.

In cunclushun, maken der teams join toogeffa not helpun make de crowd bigga so joinen der teams no good cos u loosen plenty fans...

 

[Sam I Am]

To anyone with a double figure IQ, you are an imbecile and have no idea what you're talking about on this subject.

Back at the staff meeting, Neverused Brain? :lol:

Let's look at what I said:

If that is all it takes to kill a sport in a city, it must rest of a very fragile foundation. Sad.

Let's look at your response.

Wen der C Eegles join wif der Bares, der crowds not get betta.

Wen der Draguns an der Stealers join toogeffa, der crowd get littul betta.

Wen der Tigaaas and der Megpeyes (dem black en wite birdy fings) join toogeffa, der crowd get bit betta.

In cunclushun, maken der teams join toogeffa not helpun make de crowd bigga so joinen der teams no good cos u loosen plenty fans...

Note, once I had wiped the dribble away from your comments, there was nothing there about the correlation between the foundation of the sport and the existence of particular teams.

That's right, you were once again too dim to actually see the point and attempt to respond. Or maybe your older brother was, because he appears to have written that slightly more lucid response.

Nonetheless, league in Sydney is on a fragile foundation is culling a team kills the sport.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Back at the staff meeting, Neverused Brain? :lol:

It's like trying to get a reasoned verbal response from a chimp.

Let's look at what I said:

Everything you say is borderline irrelevant. You're pretty much f**ked in the head.

Let's look at your response.

I read it again and it still makes more sense than anything you've posted on the subject.

Note, once I had wiped the dribble away from your comments, there was nothing there about the correlation between the foundation of the sport and the existence of particular teams.

You're determined to prove me right, over and over again, aren't you?

There is nothing about Rugby League in Sydney that you know anything about.

Nothing.

That is the salient point.

That's right, you were once again too dim to actually see the point and attempt to respond.

You don't have a point, or an argument.

Or maybe your older brother was, because he appears to have written that slightly more lucid response.

At least my brother is capable of a response. When yours learns to turn the computer on, then you can brag.

Nonetheless, league in Sydney is on a fragile foundation is culling a team kills the sport.

Teams.

Idiot.

Natural attrition will cull the odd team, did in the past and will in the future, but that's not what thickheads like you want, is it?

You f**king gumby.

 

[Bluebags1908]

Nice work, Blueballs. Let's go summarise our discussion to date:

[/color]

1. You make unsubstantiated claim about how the Broncos are damaging the game
2. I provide proof that the game is not being damaged in Brisbane
3. You attempt to discredit the proof by saying it refers only to juniors.

Just so you can follow it, and I doubt you will be able to, I will use bullet points. You should be familiar with bullets, because you seem to shoot yourself in the foot whenever you respond to me:

• I was talking about the Brisbane Second Division Rugby League
• It is not a junior competition
• Here is their home page, just so you don't make an idiot of yourself again: http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=7-2270-0-0-0&sID=19596
• "The Brisbane Second Division Rugby League is, as far as we can ascertain, the largest single senior Rugby League competition in the world. We run competitions for all senior Rugby League in Brisbane, other than the Queensland Wizard Cup and the FOGs Cup competitions. Our clubs stretch from North Stradbroke Island in the East to Dayboro in the North to Beenleigh in the South. In 2008 there are 73 teams from 45 clubs playing in five open grade competitions, an Under 22 and an Under 20 competition. In 2007, there were 2723 registered players in the League"

Sam I Am (why does your signature need to convince yourself that you are in fact Sam?),

I will keep this nice and simple - according to the stats provided in the NRL season guide, Sydney vs Brisbane local juniors are:

Sydney 116
Brisbane 26

What part of that don't you understand? That's a massive 90 player difference. I think that is more than enough proof that having just one team is doing damage to the game in Brisbane.

As for your Brisbane Second Division rant, I provided the above damning statistics, and in your futile attempt to justify these damning junior stats, on the one hand you present the growing stats on the Brisbane Second Division but at the next breath state that they are not juniors!

The Brisbane Second Division is no different to the various Sydney A-grade senior competitions and serves the same purpose as the Sydney A-Grade junior competitions. Same sh!t different smell.

Sure, there's a great number of juniors in Brisbane - never disputed that - but you still haven't answer why there is such a piss poor percentage of Brisbane juniors (or Seconjd Divsion players) that translate to NRL players.

 

[Sam I Am]

Sam I Am (why does your signature need to convince yourself that you are in fact Sam?)

I chose a character from a book that I thought might be down at your level, Blueballs.

I will keep this nice and simple - according to the stats provided in the NRL season guide, Sydney vs Brisbane local juniors are:

Sydney 116
Brisbane 26

What part of that don't you understand? That's a massive 90 player difference. I think that is more than enough proof that having just one team is doing damage to the game in Brisbane.

Thanks for, when discredited, just repeating your claim in a bigger font. When Barry Jones retires from the Brains Trust, maybe you can apply for his job.

In the meantime, maybe you could tell me how the game itself is being damaged in Brisbane.

Specifically, address the following:

• How is the game damaged when attendances are high for club and representative football?
• How is the game damaged when playing figures at or near record hights?
• Given the previous two statistics, how exactly to you measure "damage to the game"?

As for your Brisbane Second Division rant, I provided the above damning statistics, and in your futile attempt to justify these damning junior stats, on the one hand you present the growing stats on the Brisbane Second Division but at the next breath state that they are not juniors!

Sorry Blueballs. I wasn't justifying junior statistics. I was demonstrating that the game was not damaged, as per your claim. Finding it hard to keep up when the teacher aide isn't in the room?

 

[Sam I Am]

Back to the staff meeting. Let's see what message the janitor want to pass on to the CEO.

Everything you say is borderline irrelevant. You're pretty much f**ked in the head.

More of the same incisive analysis, I see.

You don't have a point, or an argument.

Not one that you seem able to comprehend. Maybe I should write it in Morse Code. See if you can work it out then.

- .... . .-. . .- .-. . - --- --- -- .- -. -.-- ... -.-- -.. -. . -.-- - . .- -- ... .-.-.- .. - .. ... ..-. ..- -.-. -.- .... . .- -.. ... .-.. .. -.- . -.-- --- ..- - .... .- - .- .-. . -.. .-. .- --. --. .. -. --. - .... . --. .- -- . -.. --- .-- -. .-.-.-

At least my brother is capable of a response. When yours learns to turn the computer on, then you can brag.

You must be envious of your brother.

Teams.

Idiot.

Natural attrition will cull the odd team, did in the past and will in the future, but that's not what thickheads like you want, is it?

Thank you for setting up a straw man here. You started building him here:

FFS, you can cut it to two teams in Sydney if you like, but it won't guarantee bigger crowds. What it will guarantee is the death of Rugby League in Sydney.

Firstly, I have never said that there should be only two teams in Sydney. That was your own southern paranoia and insecurity. Interestingly, however, there are only two Sydney teams with attendances above the NRL average. Perhaps it is this fact that feeds your paranoia.

Secondly, I noted, and you failed (I have bolded this word for effect only) to refute, that if the death of a team, or yes, of multiplee teams at the top level is the death of the sport then it is built on a frail foundation.

Note in Brisbane that each of the BRL teams used to exist at the top level, and do no longer, for whatever reason. This was not the death of the sport.

You have either engaged in hyperbole to suggest that it is the case in Sydney, or the sport is in bigger trouble than I thought.

 

[Bluebags1908]

I chose a character from a book that I thought might be down at your level, Blueballs.



Thanks for, when discredited, just repeating your claim in a bigger font. When Barry Jones retires from the Brains Trust, maybe you can apply for his job.

In the meantime, maybe you could tell me how the game itself is being damaged in Brisbane.

Specifically, address the following:

• How is the game damaged when attendances are high for club and representative football?
• How is the game damaged when playing figures at or near record hights?
• Given the previous two statistics, how exactly to you measure "damage to the game"?

Sorry Blueballs. I wasn't justifying junior statistics. I was demonstrating that the game was not damaged, as per your claim. Finding it hard to keep up when the teacher aide isn't in the room?

Sam I Am,

Look back on my posts - I've never said that the game isn't healthy in Brisbane. And yes, the crowd figures you present are great - no arguement there. But let's not rest on our laurels. Just because things are reasonably healthy on the surface here an now does not equate to the game reaching it's full potential. Things can be so much better, and in that sense having only one team in Brisbane is doing damage to the game because it is limiting the game's potential in Brisbane - that is, despite the healthy state of the game, it can be and should be even better. Supply is not meeting demand in Brisbane and this is bad for the game.

Surely even you would admit that adding a 2nd team in Brisbane would be good for the game in Brisbane. More fans, more games, and more people on aggregate attending the game (and very little or no affect on the Broncos crowds). How is not that good for the game?

And I say it again -

Sydney 116
Brisbane 26

Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that those stats for Brisbane are good? Logic tells you that adding a 2nd Brisbane team will give more opportunities to Brisbane juniors to make the NRL.

You can ignore those stats if you want, which you have done from the word go. I know it's an 'inconvenient truth', but by conveniently ignoring those stats you have just admitted defeat..

 

[Sam I Am]

Sam I Am,

Look back on my posts - I've never said that the game isn't healthy in Brisbane.

Really? At post 212 you said:

whilst all might look good on the surface with great crowds at Broncos games, if you scratch underneath it is clearly obvious that having just one team is in fact doing damage to the game in Brisbane

But let's move on...

And yes, the crowd figures you present are great - no arguement (sic) there.

Agreed.

But let's not rest on our laurels. Just because things are reasonably healthy on the surface here an now does not equate to the game reaching it's full potential.

Now you are attempting to re-write your earlier post. You weren't talking about potential. You were talking about positively "doing damage to the game in Brisbane".

Things can be so much better, and in that sense having only one team in Brisbane is doing damage to the game because it is limiting the game's potential in Brisbane - that is, despite the healthy state of the game, it can be and should be even better. Supply is not meeting demand in Brisbane and this is bad for the game.

I agree to the extent that you are saying there should be more than one team in Brisbane. Indeed, I have been arguing for this.

Surely even you would admit that adding a 2nd team in Brisbane would be good for the game in Brisbane. More fans, more games, and more people on aggregate attending the game (and very little or no affect on the Broncos crowds). How is not that good for the game?

Agreed.

And I say it again -

Sydney 116
Brisbane 26

Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that those stats for Brisbane are good? Logic tells you that adding a 2nd Brisbane team will give more opportunities to Brisbane juniors to make the NRL.

All I said with a straight face was that I disagreed with your assertion that this was "damaging the game in Brisbane".

Thank you for taking the time to write a reasoned response, Bluebags1908.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Back to the staff meeting. Let's see what message the janitor want to pass on to the CEO.

If you're the CEO, I'll bet it'd have to work hard to get up to the levels of a $2 shelf company..

Face it, the best you'll ever be able to do is office clown.

More of the same incisive analysis, I see.

You read your own posts.

Everything else has to seem incisive compared to your own nonsense.

Not one that you seem able to comprehend. Maybe I should write it in Morse Code. See if you can work it out then.

Yeah, that joke was funny the second time...

- .... . .-. . .- .-. . - --- --- -- .- -. -.-- ... -.-- -.. -. . -.-- - . .- -- ... .-.-.- .. - .. ... ..-. ..- -.-. -.- .... . .- -.. ... .-.. .. -.- . -.-- --- ..- - .... .- - .- .-. . -.. .-. .- --. --. .. -. --. - .... . --. .- -- . -.. --- .-- -. .-.-.-

For anyone who doesn't know morse code, that's the most intelligent thing you've ever said in this forum.

You must be envious of your brother.

Relatively speaking.

I'm here, why do you feel the need to mention people who aren't?

Thank you for setting up a straw man here.

You started building him here:

You, are mental.

Firstly, I have never said that there should be only two teams in Sydney.

Who said you did?

Moron.

That was your own southern paranoia and insecurity.

Hardly. You not only don't know anything about Rugby League in Sydney, I'm pretty sure that Rugby League in general is something you're not all that clued up on.

What you want and what you're going to get are two vastly different things. So in the end, no matter how much you stamp your feet, bite your pillow or frot a tree in disgust, what you want won't happen.

And after all that you'll still be you. So everyone else wins.

Interestingly, however, there are only two Sydney teams with attendances above the NRL average. Perhaps it is this fact that feeds your paranoia.

What is interesting is that the only teams above those two are one-team towns/cities.

Oh wait, that doesn't suit your arguments. you think* that isn't an advantage when it comes to attendances...

:lol:

Secondly, I noted, and you failed (I have bolded this word for effect only) to refute, that if the death of a team, or yes, of multiplee teams at the top level is the death of the sport then it is built on a frail foundation.

Yeah, you keep saying it but why don't you post something to back it up?

I mean, Basketball is still going great guns after losing the Kings, Slammers, etc... LOL

And that sport is all but dead in Australia now. You still just simply can't get that you don't understand Sydney's importance to Rugby League or sport in general in this country.

It would kill Rugby League in Sydney and Australia for sure and certain if we halved the number of Sydney teams.

If the answer was as simple as you seem to think it is, why don't the NRL just do it?

Or why haven't the AFL just done it in Melbourne?

It wouldn't happen to be that you're talking bollocks would it?

Note in Brisbane that each of the BRL teams used to exist at the top level, and do no longer, for whatever reason. This was not the death of the sport.

Well, there's a few subtle differences. I'll give you a couple of hints, see if you can spot it.

1. One city is Sydney and the other city is not Sydney.

2. The BRL was followed in Qld, not in NSW. The NSWRL was followed in NSW and Qld. The money and the profile was on the NSWRL competition's side, and not by a little, by a lot.

If the NRL had been around the other way, 8 odd Brisbane teams and 1 Sydney team, Rugby League would already be as good dead in this country...

But hell, we'd still have one team with a 40k average.... LOL

You have either engaged in hyperbole to suggest that it is the case in Sydney, or the sport is in bigger trouble than I thought.

Think whatever you like, you're borderline geniused and probably a distinct danger to people around you. I'm just happy you're in Queensland.

* word used very loosely.

 

[Sam I Am]

Face it, the best you'll ever be able to do is office clown.

I would never do you. Maybe you should contact the Cougar instead...

(lots of drivel where it was revealed that EA doesn't stand by his previous words when linked to and doesn't know what the term "straw man" means)

For anyone who doesn't know morse code, that's the most intelligent thing you've ever said in this forum.

Even more so to those that do. Try translating it.

Oh wait, that doesn't suit your arguments. you think* that isn't an advantage when it comes to attendances...

Glad you agree with me here. I think that the optimal number of teams is below 8, and that would help attendances. Thanks for your support! :lol:

I mean, Basketball is still going great guns after losing the Kings, Slammers, etc... LOL

So you're saying rugby league in Sydney is as fragile as basketball? Things are worse than I expected. I guess I don't know the sport if things are that bad on the ground.

It would kill Rugby League in Sydney and Australia for sure and certain if we halved the number of Sydney teams.

And you have nothing to back this up with other than an analogy with basketball. Furthermore, I have never said that we should halve the number of teams. You may feel like you've actually been able to score a point when you put words in my mouth, but sadly for you I have not asked for a halving of teams.

If the answer was as simple as you seem to think it is, why don't the NRL just do it?

Why don't the NRL do many things that are progressive. Because the game of rugby league is tied down with a million vested interests. Surely you know enough about the sport to be aware of this? No...? :lol:

What should they do? Reduce the number of teams to a sustainable level. I welcome a debate on what that level is.

1. One city is Sydney and the other city is not Sydney.

One city supports rugby league with bums on seats, the other does not.

2. The BRL was followed in Qld, not in NSW. The NSWRL was followed in NSW and Qld. The money and the profile was on the NSWRL competition's side, and not by a little, by a lot.

If the NRL had been around the other way, 8 odd Brisbane teams and 1 Sydney team, Rugby League would already be as good dead in this country...

Why's that? Go on. Actually back up one of your assertions with some reasoning. For once.