Rugby league in dire straits in NSW as Queensland leads the way

[Sam I Am]

I highly doubt the NRL has the creative know how to positvely market a relocation. They barely have the skills in marketing the sport as a whole as it is. The phrases or words "Good marketing" and "NRL" are rarely ever seen together.

Never a truer word spoken. Except for the Hoodoo Gurus. I liked that song in the first year.

We shall see what happens, but i think this the route they will actually go but at a slow pace. Every TV rights deal that is negotiated the NRL might add a team or 2. Therefore Extra money will be generated. and the stragglers have time to catch up.

I agree that gradualism is the way to go. Even though I think the number of teams in Sydney can be reduced, I don't think we need a "night of the long knives" where it happens all at once.

As for extra money though I think the days of stratospheric media rights may be coming to a close. For all sports. They are not going to keep growing exponentially. News Limited's profits worldwide are in free fall. Nine and Ten are close to bust. There isn't the money there used to be in media. And the NRL, AFL, ARU, the lot of them, will become painfully aware of this over the next decade, methinks.

But at the same token, Sydney is an extremely crucial market/audience for Rugby League in the country. Even QLDers should recogmise this. The saturation of NRL teams in Sydney can be a positive if done correctly. Other codes will struggle to gain a foothold in the largest popualtion this country has. It's all about the execution of management for it to work though.

True, I do recognise its importance. That's why I think it is a question of balance and consideration. And that's why I think the NRL needs to plan this one out very carefully. But they do need to be pro-active, not reactive as usually happens in our sport.

 

[WireMan]

The salary cap is around so the smaller clubs can have a chance without bankrupting themselves, in these trying times any raise would be foolish.

Why don't you do in the NRL what we have just started doing over here. When you are given a franchise, you are given it for a set number of years. In our case three.

After three years every club has to reapply. The best 12 - 14 teams will then be granted a license. It means if teams can't support themselves, have a ground, supporters, youth development etc. they will be replaced by a club who has proven to able to do it.

that way, there is no debate about whether the sharks or anyone should be kept. In two years then there bid is assessed along with Perth, Central Coast, North Brisbane but also the Knights, Eels, Raiders etc. Whoever ticks the most boxes is in. Simples.

 

[bobmar28]

3 teams in Sydney...I would keep Roosters Souths and Sharks, and ditch the rest...that would be awesome....

Plus 2 for western Sydney.

 

[Ladmate]

If they cut teams in sydney, you can bet AFL will expand quickly in areas like:

Newcastle
Central Coast
Western Sydney (already doing this)
Wollongong

Either AFL or soccer will dominate or put strong pressure on those parts.

Assuming Sam's plan includes a team in West Sydney: Wests/Penrith/Eels have good crowds and is in Gus's words 'the heartland of league'. However, with contention, this could lower crowd numbers drastically, which will make those 3 or 2 (Penrith Eels or Parramatta Panthers) clubs struggle.

However, your plan would alienate fans in the short term for the club in Moore Park/Redfern/Downtown Sydney (Yeah that is a lame name). Imagine if Souths and Roosters merged or one of them died. I don't think much Rooster and Souths fans would want to go to the games. It would contend with the AFL and soccer and Union in the long term, but not in the short term.

 

[Sam I Am]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25571780-5013406,00.html

QUEENSLAND Rugby League boss Ross Livermore insists NSW's failure to sell out State of Origin matches in Sydney should see the state bear the brunt of any further commitment to move games to Melbourne.

Blues coach Craig Bellamy yesterday reiterated his call for Origin matches to be played in Victoria on an annual basis, as news filtered through that tomorrow's series opener at Etihad Stadium would be viewed by a capacity crowd of around 52,000.



(...)


Under the current contractual agreement Melbourne will not host another State of Origin match before 2013, though the ARL is discussing possible changes to the schedule.



However, Livermore said it would be unfair to rob Queensland of matches while NSW failed to fill its ground: "If anyone is to lose games, it should come from Sydney. They don't sell out the games down there."

 

[Timmah]

Said with no consideration of the vast difference in capacity or the difference in volume of RL seen in each city.

One thing Livermore can be assured of is that since Origin has been played at ANZ (1999 IIRC), it has always out-drawn Queensland, 100% without fail.

 

[Sam I Am]

If they cut teams in sydney, you can bet AFL will expand quickly in areas like:

Assuming Sam's plan includes a team in West Sydney: Wests/Penrith/Eels have good crowds and is in Gus's words 'the heartland of league'. However, with contention, this could lower crowd numbers drastically, which will make those 3 or 2 (Penrith Eels or Parramatta Panthers) clubs struggle.

Western Sydney (as the AFL) needs representation, naturally. Interestingly, the Tigers' crowds have really gone up when compared to its two antecedent teams. Parramatta is a problem. Lack of cover notwithstanding they have a good stadium and I am surprised that their crowds, derbies aside are often poor.

However, your plan would alienate fans in the short term for the club in Moore Park/Redfern/Downtown Sydney (Yeah that is a lame name). Imagine if Souths and Roosters merged or one of them died. I don't think much Rooster and Souths fans would want to go to the games. It would contend with the AFL and soccer and Union in the long term, but not in the short term.

I can't see the Roosters or Souths merging, nor can I see them leaving Sydney to be honest. Souths are doing everything they can to broaden their appeal, which is great, and the Roosters' crowds have at least increased a bit over the last decade.

To go out on a limb, I would say that the presence of Manly, Roosters, Souths and STI would seem fairly certain, provided that Manly can secure their off-field future. Brookevale, IMHO, needs to be upgraded to a boutique modern stadium. When it rains there, crowds often stay away in droves. Although everybody is attached to the idea of the hill, I think non-seated areas such as those at some English stadia (Warrington's home ground, I think, for example?) might be the way to go. Of course, all of this takes money.

Looking out the other way, Wests (well, they're half out there) are looking good as are the Bulldogs. Parramatta need to get their act together and Penrith really seems to die off with a lack of onfield success, arguably more than other teams.

This isn't meant to be my idea of which teams should stay or go necessarily. As I said yesterday, that is for the NRL to decide and their analysis should be a great deal more rigourous than mine on a forum. My gut feeling, though, is that six teams might be a good number.

 

[adamkungl]

Said with no consideration of the vast difference in capacity or the difference in volume of RL seen in each city.

One thing Livermore can be assured of is that since Origin has been played at ANZ (1999 IIRC), it has always out-drawn Queensland, 100% without fail.

QLDers could play Origin at a 10,000 capacity stadium and would brag about it being a sellout.

 

[Sam I Am]

QLDers could play Origin at a 10,000 capacity stadium and would brag about it being a sellout.

And cockroaches would sell 11,000 seats at Parramatta Stadium and say that they beat us! :lol:

 

[Perth Red]

You are kidding yourself if you think a lifelong RL fan is going to switch to AFL or soccer because there team has gone.How many Melbourinans do you think switched to Rl when there teams were relocated? Generally RL fans stay RL fans they just pick and choose what games to attend and watch the rest on TV.

 

[Blind Freddy]

You are kidding yourself if you think a lifelong RL fan is going to switch to AFL or soccer because there team has gone.How many Melbourinans do you think switched to Rl when there teams were relocated? Generally RL fans stay RL fans they just pick and choose what games to attend and watch the rest on TV.

I'm sure if the Storm were around when Sth Melbourne/Footscray/Fitzroy merged or relocated some disgruntled fans would have jumped onto them.

Lots of League fans have been lost since 98/99 when teams were killed or merged and thats just in Sydney especially Northern Sydney alone that i'm very much aware of. It's no coincidence that the then Super 12 picked up more supporters and Swans crowd number increased around that time also.

Killing or forced death doesn't work. Natural Death all the way!!

 

[adamkungl]

And cockroaches would sell 11,000 seats at Parramatta Stadium and say that they beat us! :lol:

Surely you can't actually be agreeing with Liveremore the clueless bastard

 

[Sam I Am]

Surely you can't actually be agreeing with Liveremore the clueless bastard

It's Origin time! Of course I bloody do! ;-)

 

[Sam I Am]

The Sydney stats speak for themselves, all teams bar Cronulla (their problems are well documented), Manly (don't understand why) and Parramatta (one word: Fitzy.) are up on ten years ago.

(...)

All your stats do is tell me things in Sydney aren't as terrible as everyone fears, much like the panic over swine flu at the moment.

Those in the know disagree:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/22/2578141.htm?section=sport

Roosters coach Brad Fittler says Sydney will probably not be able to support the current number of NRL clubs based in the city indefinitely.

 

[Timmah]

Fittler can barely coach an NRL team :lol:

 

[Sam I Am]

Fittler can barely coach an NRL team :lol:

And once more you fail to address the issue. Cue Timmah's response of "Troll!" when cornered.

 

[Timmah]

Fail to address what issue? You cited Brad Fittler as an example of someone "in the know"... that says it all...

 

[Sam I Am]

Fail to address what issue? You cited Brad Fittler as an example of someone "in the know"... that says it all...

A NRL coach working full time at a club is in the know, regardless of their club's position on the ladder. If you disagree, try and put a sentence together and tell me why.

 

[Timmah]

I disagree because he's failed to qualify his statement with any discernable facts. Sounds more like an off-the-cuff remark than anything else, and you using it to support your case is laughable.

 

[Sam I Am]

I disagree because he's failed to qualify his statement with any discernable facts. Sounds more like an off-the-cuff remark than anything else, and you using it to support your case is laughable.

What is more laughable is the fact that you were too lazy to click on the link. He clearly was not talking off the cuff. Furthermore, he expressly says in the article that we should have fewer teams in Sydney.

Go Freddy!