Rugby League in NZ schools

[Te Kaha]

I) You quoted a statement involving the nZRL circa 2009.Latest reports this is 2012.Relevance today go figure.

A thread about the reasons for the "historic" issues League has in the NZ school system and the last NZRL look at this issue.. if you cant figure out the relevance that says more about you than anything.

I
2) How can a school gauge demand ,if they are not open to it in the first place.That has not been established 100%.You prove otherwise.

How do you know they arent open to it? "That has not been established 100%.You prove otherwise"

I
3) I am fully aware of Sparcs involvement,and the NZRL had to get its act together in order to secure funding.That has stuff all to do with kids being allowed to play a sport in a school,which possibly wont allow it.

"possibly"? is that your entire argument?

IMy GPS/Assoc schools analogy was exactly to show why the ru collar and tie influence has such an influence in these ru schools.NZ schools similar set up.

Bollox... given the percentage of females in teaching in NZ you dont know how absurd that statement truely is.

I
My point was simply to show ru influence extends through school systems in both NZ and Australia.If you can't handle that,well go leap in a lineout.I have yet to find a union tragic,take ownership on this matter.

"influence"? and just how do they exert that influence???

 

[Knownothing]

Union should die. A sport only for the rich has no place in this world unless it involves horsies.

That's the sort of thinking that will win hearts and minds.

 

[taipan]

A thread about the reasons for the "historic" issues League has in the NZ school system and the last NZRL look at this issue.. if you cant figure out the relevance that says more about you than anything.


How do you know they arent open to it? "That has not been established 100%.You prove otherwise"


"possibly"? is that your entire argument?



Bollox... given the percentage of females in teaching in NZ you dont know how absurd that statement truely is.


"influence"? and just how do they exert that influence???

Up to date situation and its implications.That's not asking too much.
What's history is history.If we choose to use that as a continuing basis,we may as wel live in the past.

An important part yes.If little has changed,discrimination still exists.

There are large numbers of females teaching in NSW and Qld schools.NZ is hardly unique.

Suggesting(in NZ) there are none with no union ties and no male teachers with no union ties.

Traditional influence between the schools and the traditional code involved.If you cant see influence at times between ru /old school tie,then I am amazed.It would indeed I suggest something new.
Tell us why these schools continue as they do,if there is no influence.
P& C Boards,Old Boys.

If it is all the NZRL fault now and you can evidence the fact,I will accept it.

 

[Te Kaha]

Up to date situation and its implications.That's not asking too much.
What's history is history.If we choose to use that as a continuing basis,we may as wel live in the past.

In a history of 100 odd years a 3 yeard old report showing historic problems IS relevant. The next report, if and when its done, now has a base to work off. As yet that report IS the most up to date.

An important part yes.If little has changed,discrimination still exists.

In the school system? there is no evidence it is anything but a minor part. Is it right? no.. is it the major cause? no.

There are large numbers of females teaching in NSW and Qld schools.NZ is hardly unique.

No.. but its a bit hard to put up an argument of an "old boys network" being the cause of League not being in schools when there is a distict lack of "old boys" in NZ schools.

Suggesting(in NZ) there are none with no union ties and no male teachers with no union ties.

Hardly.. but suggesting its the major cause of "Issues" is ridiculous.

Traditional influence between the schools and the traditional code involved.If you cant see influence at times between ru /old school tie,then I am amazed.It would indeed I suggest something new.
Tell us why these schools continue as they do,if there is no influence.
P& C Boards,Old Boys.

This may be true in the very small percentage of private schools in NZ, but it doesnt explain the problems in the vast number of public schools where there arent any "old boys".

If it is all the NZRL fault now and you can evidence the fact,I will accept it.

I have never said its all the NZRLs fault. But the lack of any sort of structure and support WAS the major contributor. Now they have got that in place school boy league is growing again. How would this be possible if the "discrimination" existed to the extent you claim?

 

[taipan]

In a history of 100 odd years a 3 yeard old report showing historic problems IS relevant. The next report, if and when its done, now has a base to work off. As yet that report IS the most up to date.


In the school system? there is no evidence it is anything but a minor part. Is it right? no.. is it the major cause? no.

No.. but its a bit hard to put up an argument of an "old boys network" being the cause of League not being in schools when there is a distict lack of "old boys" in NZ schools.

Hardly.. but suggesting its the major cause of "Issues" is ridiculous.

This may be true in the very small percentage of private schools in NZ, but it doesnt explain the problems in the vast number of public schools where there arent any "old boys".

I have never said its all the NZRLs fault. But the lack of any sort of structure and support WAS the major contributor. Now they have got that in place school boy league is growing again. How would this be possible if the "discrimination" existed to the extent you claim?

It is historically relevant for the time of happening.What is happening now is the crux.
Reports are one thing,used as a basis to change habits.Surely the wheel should be turning faster than it currently appears.

OK,I'll bite show us the evidence it discrimination, played a minor part.
We know NZRL incompetence played a part and...........

Distinct lack of old boys!.So boys who attended these schools decades ago and later who played in the first XV,have little or no influence?.
The NZRU has no influence whatsoever in the schools?
This is in the country where rugby union is worshipped .Please.

Every man and his dog has some idea of how inept the NZRL was in the past.Losing money hand over fist.
If there is no discrimination,every school( repeat every school )would be open to rugby league,and the same should apply in Sydney.

If a sport in a school is played and another is not allowed or frowned upon,the word used , is to discriminate.

Progress has indeed been made, in part to Sparc/NZRL and the NZ Warriors and their u20 side,suggesting the discrimination prior was on a decent scale.If it wasn't more schools would have played it,logic would suggest.
Maybe they now realise after seeing Hurrell blitz them in the NRL,that rl is just another sporting outlet.

We even have had NZ ru fans bragging about the fact rl couldn't get into the schools.

 

[Te Kaha]

It is historically relevant for the time of happening.What is happening now is the crux.
Reports are one thing,used as a basis to change habits.Surely the wheel should be turning faster than it currently appears.

"Surely" being the operative word.. in fact you have no idea at all just because you want something or you think something should happen doesnt mean it automatically does.

OK,I'll bite show us the evidence it discrimination, played a minor part.
We know NZRL incompetence played a part and...........

You are kidding right?? prove something doesnt exist?? ok right after you prove God doesnt exist.

Distinct lack of old boys!.So boys who attended these schools decades ago and later who played in the first XV,have little or no influence?.
The NZRU has no influence whatsoever in the schools?
This is in the country where rugby union is worshipped .Please.

You claim they have influence and you cant answer how... They can influence their own kids and the "hearts and minds" of other kids, but if they have no pressence in the schools how exactly is this mythical "old boys network" supposed to "influence" the schools???

Every man and his dog has some idea of how inept the NZRL was in the past.Losing money hand over fist.
If there is no discrimination,every school( repeat every school )would be open to rugby league,and the same should apply in Sydney.

There may be discrimination in some of the private schools, but since it cant happen in the public schools and they outnumber the private ones hundreds to one, I ask again, how can this be the major cause??

If a sport in a school is played and another is not allowed or frowned upon,the word used , is to discriminate.

You keep playing the victim card... once again.. how can it be the major factor?

Progress has indeed been made, in part to Sparc/NZRL and the NZ Warriors and their u20 side,suggesting the discrimination prior was on a decent scale.If it wasn't more schools would have played it,logic would suggest.
Maybe they now realise after seeing Hurrell blitz them in the NRL,that rl is just another sporting outlet.

Or there was no support or demand. your logic is based on a flawed premise.

We even have had NZ ru fans bragging about the fact rl couldn't get into the schools.

Idiots who try to "one up" others with little basis in fact.. we have plenty of those on this site.

 

[ozenzud]

Te Kaha, I think you should acknowledge that there has been HUGE prejudices in your home town against league that comes from administrators, teachers and parents.

I'm a leaguie from Oz, whos lived here a long time. I get predjudice EVERY SINGLE DAY from workmates and people I know against league. It gets bloody annoying.

I actually think Rugby is OK. The second best winter sport going. But anybody who thinks the divide between league and union is not political, doesn't know their history or their facts. Its very political. I never feel comfortable in union, because of my upbringing and culture. I feel as if I am betraying that by playing or associating myself with union. Thats what a lot of Kiwis do not understand, with the SBW defection. They seem to forget the RU defections for money in the old days and what people thought of the AB's that went that way.

The situation in Oz and Kiwi is completely different. We have a strong club comp in most areas of Oz. In NZ, at college age(secondary school), there is far less club sports and more focus on the school. That has its strengths and weaknesses where a school doesn't have the resources and the money to provide the development.

Regarding attitudes from schools, I've seen kids playing league for their clubs on Sunday, being told they would be dropped from their First 15 if they turned out for their club league team. This happens in Wellington. Fact. I know. I know that some influential individuals have worked hard to keep league down at schools. Fact. No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

But I think that is changing.

That 2009 report listed above was good to flick through. I have a copy. Its great to see how far we have come in such as short time.

The fastest growing sport at college level in Wellington and I think NZ is RL. I can get the reference. I heard it from the head of College Sport Wellington and WRL.

The secret was to play league outside the rugby season and that way we didn't compete with it. Where you are faced with a giant with heaps of resources and you have none, its better to work away at the edges until you get the strength.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10815664

 

[Te Kaha]

Te Kaha, I think you should acknowledge that there has been HUGE prejudices in your home town against league that comes from administrators, teachers and parents.

I dont acknowledge it at all... Individual predjudice is one thing, but this thread is about instutionalised discrimination. and as some claim the NZRU being soley responsible for the lackf League in NZ schools... its a myth.

I'm a leaguie from Oz, whos lived here a long time. I get predjudice EVERY SINGLE DAY from workmates and people I know against league. It gets bloody annoying.

People dont like League.. it happens.. Most on this board dont like Rugby... is that "predjudice" in your book? or personal choice?

I actually think Rugby is OK. The second best winter sport going. But anybody who thinks the divide between league and union is not political, doesn't know their history or their facts. Its very political. I never feel comfortable in union, because of my upbringing and culture. I feel as if I am betraying that by playing or associating myself with union. Thats what a lot of Kiwis do not understand, with the SBW defection. They seem to forget the RU defections for money in the old days and what people thought of the AB's that went that way.

It may be political to administrators, put it isnt for the average punter. People like white the like. Some like Rugby, some like League a large percentage like both. they couldnt care less about the history or politics involved. they just like it or they dont.

The situation in Oz and Kiwi is completely different. We have a strong club comp in most areas of Oz. In NZ, at college age(secondary school), there is far less club sports and more focus on the school. That has its strengths and weaknesses where a school doesn't have the resources and the money to provide the development.

Agreed... and the NZRU could afford to support college teams for a long time while the NZRL coupldnt or wouldnt. THAT is the main reason why Rugby has such a strong college history.

Regarding attitudes from schools, I've seen kids playing league for their clubs on Sunday, being told they would be dropped from their First 15 if they turned out for their club league team. This happens in Wellington. Fact. I know. I know that some influential individuals have worked hard to keep league down at schools. Fact. No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Which wellington schools? please provide specific schools... having lived her most of my life and raised kids here i have yet to see it.

If you tell me which schools they are I will call them and find out why.

But I think that is changing.

That 2009 report listed above was good to flick through. I have a copy. Its great to see how far we have come in such as short time.

The fastest growing sport at college level in Wellington and I think NZ is RL. I can get the reference. I heard it from the head of College Sport Wellington and WRL.

Which is great news.. but all that shows is theat the NZRL has finally got its act together... wher has this "discrimination" suddenly vanished to?

The secret was to play league outside the rugby season and that way we didn't compete with it. Where you are faced with a giant with heaps of resources and you have none, its better to work away at the edges until you get the strength.

[URL]http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10815664[/URL]

A smart move... however i played Rugby on Saturday and League on Sunday through school and club life.. had no issues from administrators, players or fans about it... as i said.. most couldnt care about the politics.

 

[ozenzud]

Te Kaha,

I think you and me might live in different worlds. Maybe because I have left my working class roots via the days of free university and moved into the whitebread, middleclass professional world and am not easily offended, people are comfortable saying things to me like, "why do you play statehouse rugby?" or "aren't you scared at RL games?" I understand that there is an absolutely inherent prejudice against our game in sectors of NZ society.

You can say, people don't like League or don't like Rugby. I like Rugby. Its OK. But I tell you, coming from where I come from, that I have a prejudice against it, and Aussie Rules. Rugby is for people who are rich and went to private school, or New Zealanders who move to Oz too late to convert to league. Aussie rules is just for the mentally geniused i.e victorians or wannabe Victorians. My attitudes are pretty normal and reflected in the majority of the people I grew up with. Its political and its cultural. Why wouldn't that cut both ways?

 

[Te Kaha]

Te Kaha,

I think you and me might live in different worlds. Maybe because I have left my working class roots via the days of free university and moved into the whitebread, middleclass professional world and am not easily offended, people are comfortable saying things to me like, "why do you play statehouse rugby?" or "aren't you scared at RL games?" I understand that there is an absolutely inherent prejudice against our game in sectors of NZ society.

You are still talking about personal predjudice, nothing at all about institionalided discrimination.. it is no different to peoples feelings on this board.

You can say, people don't like League or don't like Rugby. I like Rugby. Its OK. But I tell you, coming from where I come from, that I have a prejudice against it, and Aussie Rules. Rugby is for people who are rich and went to private school, or New Zealanders who move to Oz too late to convert to league. Aussie rules is just for the mentally geniused i.e victorians or wannabe Victorians. My attitudes are pretty normal and reflected in the majority of the people I grew up with. Its political and its cultural. Why wouldn't that cut both ways?

Hypocrite much? you espouse the "inherent prejudice" that NZ people have to RL and then go on about "Aussie rules is just for the mentally geniused ". Again however it still does not show how the NZRU or "rugby culture" is to blame for Leagues failings in the school system..

Oh.. and i am still waiting fir that school name.. Im interested to hear their side of the story.

 

[ozenzud]

I think I'll end my argument on this by sayin' you can have your view and I'll have mine, which a lot of people will share. I ain't a hypocrite. I accept I have my prejudices and know people have theirs. I don't criticise I just know what is. But do you really think that people who have personal prejudices aren't going to talk those to the table when they are at work?

For the record, I don't think the NZRU has issued any directive, but it is individuals acting on their own within organisations, collectively achieving an outcome. Principles, board members etc. You can passively stop something, by not providing any opportunity. Simply make it hard for people trying to do things.

But Rugby has a long history of banning league. Seddon the prime minister started it when he banned Baskerville from all grounds in NZ when he was trying to start league in 1907. If you don't beleive that, you really do have your head in the sand.

Re schools, I mostly blame our previous administration in league. The period of about 20 years (maybe forever) leading up the 2009 Sparc report had really poor leadership. I probably wouldn't have had us in the schools either.....

 

[Te Kaha]

I think I'll end my argument on this by sayin' you can have your view and I'll have mine, which a lot of people will share. I ain't a hypocrite. I accept I have my prejudices and know people have theirs. I don't criticise I just know what is. But do you really think that people who have personal prejudices aren't going to talk those to the table when they are at work?

Of course they are its human nature... people talk up what they like and talk down what they dont... Its still a a MASSIVE jump from that to intstutionalised discrimination.

For the record, I don't think the NZRU has issued any directive, but it is individuals acting on their own within organisations, collectively achieving an outcome. Principles, board members etc. You can passively stop something, by not providing any opportunity. Simply make it hard for people trying to do things.

Again its not up to anybody else to provide these oppotunities. and it only becomes discrimination if they are activly prevented.

But Rugby has a long history of banning league. Seddon the prime minister started it when he banned Baskerville from all grounds in NZ when he was trying to start league in 1907. If you don't beleive that, you really do have your head in the sand.

So Rugby is now a "prime minister"? interesting leap there!!

Re schools, I mostly blame our previous administration in league. The period of about 20 years (maybe forever) leading up the 2009 Sparc report had really poor leadership. I probably wouldn't have had us in the schools either.....

Which is what i have been saying as the major factor... not a view shared on this board...

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Of course it's not a view shared on this board, you're a troll.

 

[Te Kaha]

you cant even post on topic... all you do is abuse and go crying when its removed.. you are a sad individual... others in this thread can post on topic without the need to abuse... are you so defective that you cant?

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

you cant even post on topic... all you do is abuse and go crying when its removed.. you are a sad individual... others in this thread can post on topic without the need to abuse... are you so defective that you cant?

I post here because I have an interest in RL and I have been a fan all my life, you post here because you want to defend union at every opportunity.

You were shown up in this thread calling people muppets, idiots and liars because they had the gaul to have a different opinion than you. You even put in links that backed up others claims, yet you are still arguing about it.

The amount of PM's I have received because of your interfering and absolute one eyed extreme views is really starting to piss me off. I'm sick and tied of getting them just because you feel it's your duty to run this part of the Rugby League site like you do in the union forum. This is not a sub forum of a union site, the major sport at this site is RL while the one you are interested in is in the minority. Maybe you should think about that.

It is not your duty to try and take over this part of the forum and remove others posts because they do not conform to your views, let the fans of the sport speak their mind and be done with it.

Lastly, you should be trying to help the other mods look after this part of the forum instead of looking after your own opinions and deleting others.

PS, Get Stuffed.

 

[Te Kaha]

I post here because I have an interest in RL and I have been a fan all my life, you post here because you want to defend union at every opportunity.

You were shown up in this thread calling people muppets, idiots and liars because they had the gaul to have a different opinion than you. You even put in links that backed up others claims, yet you are still arguing about it.

The amount of PM's I have received because of your interfering and absolute one eyed extreme views is really starting to piss me off. I'm sick and tied of getting them just because you feel it's your duty to run this part of the Rugby League site like you do in the union forum. This is not a sub forum of a union site, the major sport at this site is RL while the one you are interested in is in the minority. Maybe you should think about that.

It is not your duty to try and take over this part of the forum and remove others posts because they do not conform to your views, let the fans of the sport speak their mind and be done with it.

Lastly, you should be trying to help the other mods look after this part of the forum instead of looking after your own opinions and deleting others.

PS, Get Stuffed.

You post because you like to abuse people almost every post you make you are abusing someone.. its a form of small man syndrome. The only post that was deleted in this thread was a double post. the only posts that were moved were ones attacking other members, complaining about moderation or werent abouth the thread topic. funny how yours covered all three... but apperently you want personal abuse to be allowed in the International foum instead of being left to the fight club... that says a lot right there.

In no post did i refer to anyone as a muppet, an idiot or a liar, those "links" you posted showed no such thing.

Its also funny how when i asked which posts were moved that were thread related nobody could answer.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

You are not LU's Rugby Union police officer no matter how much you think it.

This site is for fans of Rugby League, so how about talking about Rugby League and posting some news or ideas like the rest of us do?

 

[Te Kaha]

You are not LU's Rugby Union police officer no matter how much you think it.

get a grip.. or rather get your hand off it... " LU's Rugby Union police officer"?? you come up with some wierd dhit.

This site is for fans of Rugby League, so how about talking about Rugby League and posting some news or ideas like the rest of us do?

Simple really..I stopped doing it tp prevent threads turning in to shit fights when dumbarses post things like "Of course it's not a view shared on this board, you're a troll." There are more than a few on here who cant handle apposing viewpoints without posting shit like that... They know they cant answer with logical debate to it always reorts to that.. Now i only post when it obvious someone is only talking bullshit or putting half the story out.

I had wanted the International forum to be free of personal abuse.. but it seems some on here cant live without it...

 

[docbrown]

the only posts that were moved were ones attacking other members, complaining about moderation

Even Karl said -

Te Kaha is a heavy handed kinda guy in the mod stakes hey.

I might not agree with Karl on a lot but I agree with him on that.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Even Karl said -



I might not agree with Karl on a lot but I agree with him on that.

Seen that myself.