Rugby league must evolve for the international game to progress

[miguel de cervantes]

Let's face it. We get all fired up for the internationals, excited by the progress of the emerging nations, but at the end of the day league on the international scale will forever and a day be a reflection of the stature of the domestic comps.

This is arguably how it should be but also creates a problem. In reality, the NRL and ESL will never be surpassed. They are too dominant in their respective regions and will absorb any talent that develops on the periphery. The prospect of professional leagues forming to rival these too is nothing less than a pipedream, or so far off that it becomes almost irrelavent. Even the most diehard international league fan should be able to accept this fact.

Whilst we have seen an influx of island and NZ talent into the NRL and are starting to see a small influx of French and Welsh players into the ESL, it remains a simple numbers game. The international ranking points that have been posted previously follow an exponential curve that would be closely related to the player depth available to each nation. Large player depth equals more choice for each position and a higher total sum of talent on the playing field. Unless this is changed, international rugby league will remain stagnant at the higher levels where as far as world cups, fan interest, neutral interest and media exposure are concerned, this is the most crucial area where a constant turnoever of dominance is needed.

As I see it there are very few options to avoid this:

(1) Impose some sort of salary cap on international teams. Face it, it's the only thing that keeps the NRL on an even keel.

(2) Enforce foriegn play quotas in the ESL and NRL.

(3) Introduce a points handicap system.

(4) Change the rules of rugby league to make it more forgiving for weaker teams à la rugby union and soccer.

Sure, all of these options can be seen as compromising the nature of the sport, but don't forget that this is exactly what the salary cap does on a domestic level, Pharlap raced with handicap weights etc. Eventually, one would hope that these measures lead to a more vibrant international scene, boosting interest in foriegn lands and spurring on domestic development which may one day permit the lifting of said measures. I still think this is a much more acceptable way foward rather than waiting 100+ years for anything to shake the current stagnant, stable set up of rugby league.

 

[Evil Homer]

I respect your contributions to this forum Miguel, but honestly this is probably the worst thread I have ever seen.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

I respect your contributions to this forum Miguel, but honestly this is probably the worst thread I have ever seen.

You're a dreamer.

At least type out your vision of how league will manage to put together 10 equally talented international teams that could all win the world cup within the next 50 years.

 

[cleary89]

ban op

 

[roughyedspud]

You're a dreamer.

At least type out your vision of how league will manage to put together 10 equally talented international teams that could all win the world cup within the next 50 years.

1 nation for life from under 20's level & and a under 20's world cup/4nations/european/pacific cups


doing that means we treat international RL like international sport....and not club RL

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

A salary cap for international teams is nothing short of ridiculous lol

If minnows like Wales, Cook Islands, England, Lebanon can't put together decent teams then what good is it weakening Australia and New Zealand?

 

[Evil Homer]

You're a dreamer.

At least type out your vision of how league will manage to put together 10 equally talented international teams that could all win the world cup within the next 50 years.

This isn't ever going to be the case in any sport. There's only ever been 8 winners of the football WC, and two of those only won when the tournament was staged on home soil.

In RL we've only really stopped neglecting the international scene in the last 5 or so years, and we've seen great progress in that time. 5 years ago teams like Wales and France would lose by 60-70 points against England 'A', and now they are competitive against the best sides in the world. Alright, they aren't challenging yet, but you can't expect nations to develop a bunch of world-class players from nowhere.

The most important thing for international RL would be for the RLIF to be reconstituted and professionally run. With a competent RLIF and logical, enforcable eligibility rules, I believe international RL would grow exponentially. The only thing in our way at the moment is the Aussie dinosaurs like Geoff Carr who don't understand the need for change.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Eligibility rules, while a step in the right direction, are just a drop in the bucket.

It's a simple mathematical argument that only the delusional could not accept. To create 10 equally talented international teams, you need roughly 10% of players plying their trade at the pointy end of world league ie in NRL, ESL, from each one of those 10 nations. Only a slight variation to the 10% could be accepted if you want to argue that such or such nation is naturally better at playing the game, more patriotic whatever. I can't see how anyone can argue against this.

Evil Homer states "Alright, they aren't challenging yet, but you can't expect nations to develop a bunch of world-class players from nowhere." but this is exactly my point! Where do you think the world-class players are going to appear from?

Look at union. Let's say they have (or have had) five good quality domestic setups in SA, Aus, NZ, England and France where the majority of the players in these comps represent the corresponding nation. Is it any surprise that these countries have won all the world cups and the periphary nations in Wales, Ireland, Scotland, the Pacific Islands that make up the rest of the player numbers in thoses comps are the only ones really capable of at least beating the big five from time to time? And this is given the fact that rugby union is very tolerant of mediocre play. How in hell's name do you expect rugby league to be any better without any major changes to the way things are run? It is just...not...going...to...happen.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

If minnows like Wales, Cook Islands, England, Lebanon can't put together decent teams then what good is it weakening Australia and New Zealand?

To avoid going down the rugby union route that many here and everywhere are so quick to criticise.

How does the following sound:

"If minnows like Cronulla, Souths, Penrith, Perth can't put together decent teams then what good is it weakening Brisbane and St. George?"

Please explain how interest in rugby league in Russia and Serbia is aided by the same team winning the cup year in year out. What makes international rugby league so sacred with respect to some sort of handicapping system, be it a salary cap or otherwise?

"This isn't ever going to be the case in any sport. There's only ever been 8 winners of the football WC, and two of those only won when the tournament was staged on home soil."

Would people really care if a salary cap was in place and unpredictability has brought back into international league, something that has gone missing for about 50 years? (Hint: Look at the AFL). What would a few PNG victories over Australia do for the international game? Can you imagine how this would be received in the country? What about equal contests between France and England?

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

You want to drastically lower the standard of international RL to appease f**king Serbia lol

Would you have Boyd playing for Serbia or nobody at all? A few PNG victories over a ridiculously understrength Australian team would be seen as a joke and nobody would give a toss about international RL. It's mind boggling that you're serious about this idea but also serious about growing international RL.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

miguel,you may be right in a way, but I see emerging nations making the big 3 step up in the next decade.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

You want to drastically lower the standard of international RL to appease f**king Serbia lol

Would you have Boyd playing for Serbia or nobody at all? A few PNG victories over a ridiculously understrength Australian team would be seen as a joke and nobody would give a toss about international RL.

It is only one idea of the several I gave and more probably exist. Obviously a catch is a domestic salary cap means players over the cap are recycled towards lesser clubs which is (nowadays) permissible compared to national teams where this is obviously a no-no. With an international cap they are forced to sit on the sidelines, or at least have their time on the field limited. I agree you don't want to be forcing the Benji Marshalls out of the game, especially if players of that calibre know that if they get too good they can't play for the nation and thus will be tempted to head to union. It would have to be a fine balancing act.

I never said a cap would be needed to appease Serbia. Some sort of cap could be engineered to at least level the playing field of the top 5 or 6. At the same time imposing foreign player quotas on the NRL to get more PNG and Islanders into top level rugby league would help lift their level. Ditto in Europe, more French, Welsh, Scottish and Irish in the ESL. Suddenly you have the top 8 or so nations more evenly matched.

Basically, the NRL and ESL need to be geared more towards enabling the development of large talent pools encompassing the entire region rather than just reinforcing Australian/Eng/NZ dominance.

miguel,you may be right in a way, but I see emerging nations making the big 3 step up in the next decade.

As much as I would like to believe it, the emerging nations will not be anywhere near a consistent standard of the big 3 in the next decade. See the mathematical argument statement above and compare with union's current position. They may pull off a very odd win or rare close game from time to time, but this is simply not enough to interest media or casual fans in France, Ireland etc. To be perfectly frank, it's like inviting NSW Cup teams into the NRL but they are not allowed to recrute outside their postcode. They may snatch a win a season somehow but when you are drawing players from such a limited base they are not going to magically evolve into a [insert NRL club] outfit.

I think we get far to wound up in the fairytale side of emerging nations, partly because when they play other emerging nations the games are rather unpredictable which adds to the excitement. We all know Wales are the alsorans in the current four nations. People will say, "ah but they need experience playing against the best". Spot on, but they need that experience every week, not once every four years.

I'm sure some foreign posters on here could give us a dose of reality. From a personal stand point, whilst the Dragons have been a huge shot in the arm for league in France, it is widely accepted amongst levelheaded league circles that unless more clubs are included into the ESL the game will stagnate at the current level, even if that level is up a notch compared to 5 years ago.

 

[theblob]

You're a dreamer.

At least type out your vision of how league will manage to put together 10 equally talented international teams that could all win the world cup within the next 50 years.

One word: Development. It's the only way of getting to that stage whilst retaining the integrity of the international game. Professional opportunities will grow as the game does, plus the more competition there is from foreign players, the more will be taken on by NRL clubs. What is the point in seeing someone else win the world cup if their opponents are deliberately disadvantaged?

 

[Wilson1]

Let's face it. We get all fired up for the internationals, excited by the progress of the emerging nations, but at the end of the day league on the international scale will forever and a day be a reflection of the stature of the domestic comps.

This is arguably how it should be but also creates a problem. In reality, the NRL and ESL will never be surpassed. They are too dominant in their respective regions and will absorb any talent that develops on the periphery. The prospect of professional leagues forming to rival these too is nothing less than a pipedream, or so far off that it becomes almost irrelavent. Even the most diehard international league fan should be able to accept this fact.

Whilst we have seen an influx of island and NZ talent into the NRL and are starting to see a small influx of French and Welsh players into the ESL, it remains a simple numbers game. The international ranking points that have been posted previously follow an exponential curve that would be closely related to the player depth available to each nation. Large player depth equals more choice for each position and a higher total sum of talent on the playing field. Unless this is changed, international rugby league will remain stagnant at the higher levels where as far as world cups, fan interest, neutral interest and media exposure are concerned, this is the most crucial area where a constant turnoever of dominance is needed.

As I see it there are very few options to avoid this:

(1) Impose some sort of salary cap on international teams. Face it, it's the only thing that keeps the NRL on an even keel.

(2) Enforce foriegn play quotas in the ESL and NRL.

(3) Introduce a points handicap system.

(4) Change the rules of rugby league to make it more forgiving for weaker teams à la rugby union and soccer.

Sure, all of these options can be seen as compromising the nature of the sport, but don't forget that this is exactly what the salary cap does on a domestic level, Pharlap raced with handicap weights etc. Eventually, one would hope that these measures lead to a more vibrant international scene, boosting interest in foriegn lands and spurring on domestic development which may one day permit the lifting of said measures. I still think this is a much more acceptable way foward rather than waiting 100+ years for anything to shake the current stagnant, stable set up of rugby league.

How ridiculous! How would you change the rules to make the game more even? Give shit teams a twenty point start? International rugby league is completely different to domestic rugby league. Domestic rugby league is about picking a good squad with depth that can win week in and week out. International rugby league is about picking the best players in a country. How would you feel if you were considered too good to play for Australia? Your idea to make rugby league more even just involves weakening the top teams. It is far too contrived and we should work on building things up not destroying them.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

One word: Development. It's the only way of getting to that stage whilst retaining the integrity of the international game. Professional opportunities will grow as the game does, plus the more competition there is from foreign players, the more will be taken on by NRL clubs.

I don't see quotas being a noticeable disadvantage to the big 3, I don't think many people would even blink an eyelid if suddenly 30% of all NRL/ESL players must be non big-three players. If anything, this would encourage borderline players to declare alligance to minor nations knowing it increases their chances of playing in the NRL/ESL.

What is the point in seeing someone else win the world cup if their opponents are deliberately disadvantaged?

Do you follow the NRL?

 

[Evil Homer]

I don't see quotas being a noticeable disadvantage to the big 3, I don't think many people would even blink an eyelid if suddenly 30% of all NRL/ESL players must be non big-three players. If anything, this would encourage borderline players to declare alligance to minor nations knowing it increases their chances of playing in the NRL/ESL

You can't force clubs to sign players if they don't want to.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

How ridiculous! How would you change the rules to make the game more even? Give shit teams a twenty point start?

Look at union and soccer. The rules are such that somehow mediocrity is tolerated whereas in league the wheat is sorted from the chaff pretty effectively, far too often within the first 30 minutes in international league.

Hey, it's not great to tamper with the game, but someone very clever could probably find a way to acheive it without anyone noticing. Hell, there a millions of union fans that wouldn't know what I am talking about when I say union tolerates mediocrity.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

You can't force clubs to sign players if they don't want to.

You aren't forcing them to sign particular players, but select from a rather large group of players. You could also structure it to provide large incentives to clubs to sign these players. It should be a passable legal issue if that is what you are worried about.

 

[Evil Homer]

You aren't forcing them to sign particular players, but select from a rather large group of players. You could also structure it to provide large incentives to clubs to sign these players.

Clubs do not currently sign these players because they are not good enough. Forcing clubs to sign players that aren't good enough based on where they are from just doesn't make sense whichever way you look at it.

What needs to happen is better youth systems/scouting, particularly for the higher level emerging nations such as France and Wales. Clubs should be encouraged to sign junior players from these places, and it should be made as easy as possible for them to do so. They shouldn't be forced to do it to meet quotas or whatever, they should want to do it because it's in their interests to cast a wide net.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

You aren't forcing them to sign particular players, but select from a rather large group of players. You could also structure it to provide large incentives to clubs to sign these players. It should be a passable legal issue if that is what you are worried about.

The NRL and ESL are businesses - in place to make a profit. To make a profit the teams, in most instances must win, or at least be competitive. That means signing the best players available. By putting quotas in place you are, quite possibly, restricting a team's chance of fielding the best team they can. In the NRL's case they are based in Australia and New Zealand. I don't think you can deny an Australian or a New Zealander a job based on quota limits that must be met. Select a foreign player based on ability, sure. Based on quotas, I don't think so.