Rumoured and Confirmed Signings - XXV

[emjaycee]

Let me see if I have this right... There are 2 measures of success for a backline.
1. Tries Scored
2. Tries Conceded

In terms of tries scored, we did pretty well in 2015 with 83 tries so let's say a PASS mark.

In terms of tries conceded, we were shit all over the park, including out wide where the backs are supposedly helped by Ma'u, Moreao, Pauli, etc. but the worse 2 offenders were Sandow and Robinson (neither whom have been re-signed for 2016). Instead they have been replaced by Foran and Gordon which means we probably improve our attack and we definitely improve our defence out wide.

And somehow how 2016 squad (which is yet to be finalised) is the worst in the comp?

Ok - I get it now.

Man, we are just shit.

:roll:

 

[Noise]

I think that if we can add a decent first grade right centre we have a backline that would rank somewhere in the middle.

 

[hineyrulz]

What?

You aren't going to list the worst defenders in our backline (from this season), because you wanted someone else to tell you a team with a worse backline than ours for 2016? You're a weirdo.

Just list the worst defenders in our backline please (from this season).
I know you can't do it, so I'll help

1. Sandow
2. Robinson
3. Hopoate
4. Morgan
5. Toutai
6. Folau
7. Kelly
8. Taka
9. Semi
10. Norman
11. Champion

You are pinpointing a weakness from THIS year, the 2 major culprits are gone, Hoppa is most likely gone, and Toutai, Folau, Kelly will hopefully only play firsts if there is an emergency.

Why are you pinpointing defensive ability as an issue for next year?
And see my earlier post for a discussion on 2 teams in the GF qualifier, and their outside backs.

Your happy to ask me questions but when I ask them I'm a weirdo??? At least Josh went to the trouble even thought I don't agree with him.

Really Taka as low as 8th, defensively I thought he was pretty average even though he was injured throughout the year. Sandow is a no brainer, Falonk was woeful defensively and Robbo we all know what his weaknesses are. Kelly is solid and not sure why you bothered with Champion or Toutai (not a big enough sample size)

Glad you are all happy then with out back line and our quality back up depth they will do a fantastic job backing up out improving forward pack.......

 

[hineyrulz]

For next year:

Worse

Dragons - can't score points
Tigers - to young
Titans - spine is poor

On par

Knights - no better then us, we have better spine
Penrith - we have better halves
Warriors - to hot and cold, we have better spine
Souths - showed how poor they were with a firing pack.

Better

Roosters - could drop back to on par with new halves / fullback
Cowboys - it's all Thurston
Manly - still very good
Broncos - great spine
Dogs - could drop down to on par if halves fail
Sharks - potentially very good next year with new halves combo

I'd say only the Tigers and maybe Newcastle even though they have some good young players coming through are comparable.

The dragons really?? Widdop, Marshall, Dugan, Nightingale, Atkien, Matutia and Farrell is pretty solid.

The Titans - Mead, Hoffman. zillman, Elgey, Taylor, Roberts and MacDonald isn't great but they have probably better depth then us.


Souths have Inglis. walker, Avaua, Johnson with Keary and Reynolds with young blokes like Grey and Olive.

Warriors have - RTS, Johnson, manu, lolohea, Hurrell, Kata not a bad one just inconsistent bit plenty of points.

I reckon the Cowboys is one of the weakest in the comp but they have JT and Morgan and the bast pack in the comp.

 

[Chipmunk]

It doesn't suit the doom crew. Chris Sandow missed 67 tackles this season, more than 10% of our total misses for the year (our team missed 662).
To put it another way, remove his 'contribution', and we're tied 5th best in the missed tackle department (with the Chooks).

I don't think Hopoate was that good for us this year anyway (I wager he missed a ton of tackles too), so replacing him with a cardboard cut-out (aka, Ryan Morgan) won't be a massive step down. Replacing Sandow with Foran, and Robinson with Gordon are both big strides forward. Just on those 2 moves, our backline has improved significantly for next year. What we do with the Hoppa situation remains to be seen, but we keep hearing whispers linking us to available centres. That's good cause to wait and see isn't it?

I don't think our backline is horrible. We are just a first grade centre short. Would be nice to magically conjure one up, but let's wait and see what happens before completely giving up (before the off-season has really begun...)
Nobody would look at the backline of the Cowboys or Storm and say 'that's a grand final backline right there':
Coote
Feldt
O'Neill
Linnett
Winterstein

Munster
Koroibete
Chambers
Mann
Duffie

At season's start you might be forgiven for labelling either of those sets of outside backs as 'rubbish'. These guys look a whole lot better thanks to their halves and forward packs.
It's the same old same old, if the forwards go forward, the halves have room to move, and can make any old chumps look half decent out wide.

Stop under-rating Taka and Gordon. They will look just fine playing off Foran and Norman. Semi is about the best winger in the comp. Faraimo is solid enough, we just need a centre to play inside him.

That's fair enough to exclude Sandow's 67 missed tackles, but you need to add the missed tackles in of his replacement to get an accurate change. Foran missed 36 tackles in 2015 and has averaged 45 missed tackles per season over the last 3 years. I'm guessing we're no longer 5th in the missed tackle department when you put in those figures.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

I reckon if we add someone who compliments whichever half plays on that side of the field we should be fine. We saw this year how strong one side of a field can be when the players compliment each other. Our left side by themselves mightn't be the most potent but together they were able to create a fair bit of space for each other.

If Foran plays on the right then I think we need a centre who has quick feet, I don't think a "hole runner" like Morgan or a powerhouse centre like Folau would suit the style that Foran brings to the table. If we could nab someone like Tim Lafai he had some nice footwork before this year and that would be more suited to the style of play for Foran. Then you have to add in Gordon sweeping around the back, which Foran seems to like to use a fair bit at the sea eagles. Haven't really taken notice of Gordon's work when sweeping around but assume he can give early ball to his outside players.

 

[jk13]

from memory didn't foran make tony Williams look amazing when they took the title?

 

[Tommy Coco]

I think Norman is more likely to end up on the right, just seems more adaptable.

 

[eels_fan]

For next year:


On par

Knights - no better then us, we have better spine
Penrith - we have better halves
Warriors - to hot and cold, we have better spine
Souths - showed how poor they were with a firing pack.

The Warriors spine next year is:

1. RTS
6.
7. Shaun Johnson
9. Isaac Luke

No idea who they will put in the 6, but for arguments sake you could put Luke Kelly there and they'd still have a top 2 or 3 spine in the comp

 

[Obscene Assassin]

The Warriors spine next year is:

1. RTS
6.
7. Shaun Johnson
9. Isaac Luke

No idea who they will put in the 6, but for arguments sake you could put Luke Kelly there and they'd still have a top 2 or 3 spine in the comp

6. Tui Lolohea

On paper this will be a very exciting spine for the Warriors but will it work together? Johnson has done well calling plays but both he and Lolohea are emotional players, I think you need someone in the halves to calm the other side down, especially when you have someone as erratic as Johnson. I have a feeling that we'll see the same Warriors team that we see every year, inconsistent except when this team wins they'll win by 30+ no matter where the team they play is on the table.

 

[Bigfella]

Norman / Foran / semi / mr t and Gordon would start for most sides in the comp. At this stage our spine of Gordon / Foran and Norman is potentially as good as any in the comp. Obviously we won't know until next how good, but that spine and our forwards can make our backs perform better.

People have agreed with this post, which is even more disturbing than the fact that somebody wrote it in the first place.

Our spine is a strength of ours perhaps, but primarily because of the halves.

Only Foran of our entire spine is truly an origin class player (if he was eligible).

The elite clubs have origin and international standard players in 3/4 alien positions.

We will therefore be well behind Melbourne, Warriors, Brisbane, and probably also Dogs, roosters, Cronulla.

We wouldn't be much ahead of the field really.

And to suggest that takarangi and Gordon would start at most clubs is highly fanciful.

Tigers punted him Taka without playing a game. He wouldn't start in the centres at Brisbane roosters Souths Melbourne Canberra Bulldogs to name a few. McGuire and Bellamy simply wouldn't pick him based on his defence.

And Gordon would not be first pick fullback at any club in the comp but ours. That's not really even arguable. It's not clear who will play fullback for the roosters I guess but every other club has a far superior and younger option than him. A good number have two.

I don't mind taka or even Gordon. But I can't come close to agreeing with your statement about them.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

The Warriors spine next year is:

1. RTS
6.
7. Shaun Johnson
9. Isaac Luke

No idea who they will put in the 6, but for arguments sake you could put Luke Kelly there and they'd still have a top 2 or 3 spine in the comp

Good on paper but it is the Warriors. Yes potentially the best in the game but I doubt they will consistent enough, brilliant one game terrible the next.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

People have agreed with this post, which is even more disturbing than the fact that somebody wrote it in the first place.

Our spine is a strength of ours perhaps, but primarily because of the halves.

Only Foran of our entire spine is truly an origin class player (if he was eligible).

The elite clubs have origin and international standard players in 3/4 alien positions.

We will therefore be well behind Melbourne, Warriors, Brisbane, and probably also Dogs, roosters, Cronulla.

We wouldn't be much ahead of the field really.

And to suggest that takarangi and Gordon would start at most clubs is highly fanciful.

Tigers punted him Taka without playing a game. He wouldn't start in the centres at Brisbane roosters Souths Melbourne Canberra Bulldogs to name a few. McGuire and Bellamy simply wouldn't pick him based on his defence.

And Gordon would not be first pick fullback at any club in the comp but ours. That's not really even arguable. It's not clear who will play fullback for the roosters I guess but every other club has a far superior and younger option than him. A good number have two.

I don't mind taka or even Gordon. But I can't come close to agreeing with your statement about them.

Never said our 1,6,7 was the best in the comp, I said potentially as good as any in the comp. And a lot depends on how the forwards perform.

Coote / green / Robson / Reynolds / Gordon / Hastings / bird are just some of the spine players from last week and this week - our spine players Gordon / Norman are just as good ( obviously Gordon is coming)

While with players like Pearce / Maloney / cooper / Morgan / hunt , Foran is already in their class.

Thurston / RTS / slater / Milford / Boyd / Morris yeah we have no one matching this class of player

 

[Noise]

There is no way our spine next year is potentially as good as any in the comp.

Warriors, Storm, Broncos and Cowboys will be streaks ahead of us. In both potential and reality. Same with the Sharks. And if the rumours are true that the Dragons are getting Farrah they too are well ahead of us. I'd say our spine is on par with a lot of teams and ahead of the Knights and Tigers.

 

[oldmancraigy]

That's fair enough to exclude Sandow's 67 missed tackles, but you need to add the missed tackles in of his replacement to get an accurate change. Foran missed 36 tackles in 2015 and has averaged 45 missed tackles per season over the last 3 years. I'm guessing we're no longer 5th in the missed tackle department when you put in those figures.

Ah, but Sandow didn't play a full season either. And he had a replacement who missed tackles in those games.
Plus his deficiencies in defence cannot be accurately measured by missed tackles. Unattempted tackles is not a statistic recorded, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Sandow with 1 per game. These then lead to a miss from someone else.
I haven't looked, but I would bet Moeroa has a higher missed tackle count than he deserves due to trying to cover Sandows assignment as well as his own (and probably Hoppa as well, I rated him poorly, but maybe it was a result of him being next to Sandow in the line?)

So sure, take Sandow out, and replace him with Foran, we probably 'only' improve by 40 misses over the course of the season on direct replacement. But the overall line stiffness probably gives us another 10 or so.
And then defensive self belief kicks in, and players who trust the system don't miss as many (although that isn't quantifiable)

What I'm getting at is that we have shed at least our worst 2 defenders in our backline (one of them is an all-time great when it comes to bad defenders), and MUST surely then expect to be better in that regard?
Team that up with a world class half, and an actual first grade standard fullback, and is our backline looking worse than this year or much better?
I put it in the much better category.
Plus our pack will be improved.

If we don't make the top 8 next year we should all be disappointed, and carry on like you are this year. There was no reason to think our 2015 squad was a top 8 contender. But 2016 should be comfortably in the 8. If we're not, I'll join you and Bigfella on 'team whinge'

 

[oldmancraigy]

People have agreed with this post, which is even more disturbing than the fact that somebody wrote it in the first place.

Our spine is a strength of ours perhaps, but primarily because of the halves.

Only Foran of our entire spine is truly an origin class player (if he was eligible).

The elite clubs have origin and international standard players in 3/4 alien positions.

We will therefore be well behind Melbourne, Warriors, Brisbane, and probably also Dogs, roosters, Cronulla.

We wouldn't be much ahead of the field really.

And to suggest that takarangi and Gordon would start at most clubs is highly fanciful.

Tigers punted him Taka without playing a game. He wouldn't start in the centres at Brisbane roosters Souths Melbourne Canberra Bulldogs to name a few. McGuire and Bellamy simply wouldn't pick him based on his defence.

And Gordon would not be first pick fullback at any club in the comp but ours. That's not really even arguable. It's not clear who will play fullback for the roosters I guess but every other club has a far superior and younger option than him. A good number have two.

I don't mind taka or even Gordon. But I can't come close to agreeing with your statement about them.

You don't think Semi would play Origin if eligible? :shock: There were even newspaper articles about the Blues trying to sneak him in earlier THIS year. (eg http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...s-state-of-origin-jersey-20150318-1m20lo.html ) He's taken a stride forward since 2014 over the course of this year hasn't he?

I do think Gordon is a starter at most clubs - whether on the wing or at fullback. But whether or not he is better than their current fullback is not the question - nobody would be signing him AND their current fullback, it would be an either/ or. He is solid, will provide a decent lift in attack over Robinson, far better defence, and gives us an elite goal kicker for the first time since Luke Burt.

 

[Bigfella]

You don't think Semi would play Origin if eligible? :shock: There were even newspaper articles about the Blues trying to sneak him in earlier THIS year. (eg http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...s-state-of-origin-jersey-20150318-1m20lo.html ) He's taken a stride forward since 2014 over the course of this year hasn't he?

I do think Gordon is a starter at most clubs - whether on the wing or at fullback. But whether or not he is better than their current fullback is not the question - nobody would be signing him AND their current fullback, it would be an either/ or. He is solid, will provide a decent lift in attack over Robinson, far better defence, and gives us an elite goal kicker for the first time since Luke Burt.

1. When did left wing become part of the spine?

2. If we hadnt signed Gordon he'd be off to England I reckon. I agree with everything else you say though. although Robinson was decent in attack from the back.

 

[Gronk]

We've agreed to the cap audit thing.

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/spor... dailytelegraphnrlndm (Daily Telegraph | NRL)

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

We've agreed to the cap audit thing.

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/spor... dailytelegraphnrlndm (Daily Telegraph | NRL)

f**k.....why was that so hard?

 

[hineyrulz]

f**k.....why was that so hard?

Agreed, finally they see sense. Good to see.