Rumoured & Confirmed Signings - Part 5

[ColdWetPanther]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Blade, you are a gentleman. A slightly different perspective on that tough conversation is this.

The team has watched a succession of players they have spilled blood with and some they have grown up with, leave the club. It is as simple as saying "Moses we have to make a call and we have decided to go with Spencer going forward. We would like to keep all of you, but we can't and we had to make a decision". He may well say
"I love this club, this is my home. I still have a year to run", but Spencer can say exactly the same.

The players understand the context, they live and breathe it every day. They see players they went to school with leave the club for pastures new. They know it is a business that has to make tough decisions every day. It is not bad for the culture of the club if the club makes them as humanely as possible and deal with the players respectfully. The club will always be faced with having to choose either player A or player B, it is the very nature of competing for a spot in a team.

The way I see it, at the end of the day the club didn't value Spencer above Leota, as simple as that. How good a player rates is a subjective matter and you have to respect the fact the club has made its call. I would be disappointed if it was because nobody at the club wanted to have a tough conversation with Moses and I am sure that is not the case.

I like Spencer and do feel he will be better than Moses longer term. But Moses is the player we need right now and for the next few years.

 

[betcats]

I like Spencer and do feel he will be better than Moses longer term. But Moses is the player we need right now and for the next few years.

The thing for me is if this is how club sees it then they were never going to be able to convince Spencer to stay and play on the bench until he is 25 or older, it was just never going to happen so maybe they could’ve tried harder to keep someone like hopgood or young Teague.

The other thing is guys like Yeo and fish didn’t develop into the players they are by playing limited minutes off the bench deep into their 20s. They debuted young and were given big roles in the side and time grow and develop into stars. If we are serious about developing more star forwards they need to have a better plan for the next crop than bringing them in slowly and playing off the bench for half their careers cause the best of the young forwards will just leave and the ones we keep won’t be good enough to keep us at a high level after the next few years.

 

[BxTom]

What forward can do what Kikau does?

His size with that skill level makes him very hard to defend

He was also a defensive liability at times. He was quite often targeted because of it. It swings and roundabouts. We won't replace him, but we can get somebody else in his position with different talents.

 

[Iamback]

He was also a defensive liability at times. He was quite often targeted because of it. It swings and roundabouts. We won't replace him, but we can get somebody else in his position with different talents.

That is the positive to the roster changes, The team will have to evolve

 

[Iamback]

The thing for me is if this is how club sees it then they were never going to be able to convince Spencer to stay and play on the bench until he is 25 or older, it was just never going to happen so maybe they could’ve tried harder to keep someone like hopgood or young Teague.

The other thing is guys like Yeo and fish didn’t develop into the players they are by playing limited minutes off the bench deep into their 20s. They debuted young and were given big roles in the side and time grow and develop into stars. If we are serious about developing more star forwards they need to have a better plan for the next crop than bringing them in slowly and playing off the bench for half their careers cause the best of the young forwards will just leave and the ones we keep won’t be good enough to keep us at a high level after the next few years.

We are the defending premiers, No one should be promised a starting role. Other teams can do that and nothing wrong with that.

 

[Luke Bowden]

What forward can do what Kikau does?

His size with that skill level makes him very hard to defend

We don’t need someone to be Kikau, we need someone to slot into our system and do the basics very well. The points will come from elsewhere.
Kikau’s size and Skill were are massive bonus but not essential.

 

[MugaB]

The thing for me is if this is how club sees it then they were never going to be able to convince Spencer to stay and play on the bench until he is 25 or older, it was just never going to happen so maybe they could’ve tried harder to keep someone like hopgood or young Teague.

The other thing is guys like Yeo and fish didn’t develop into the players they are by playing limited minutes off the bench deep into their 20s. They debuted young and were given big roles in the side and time grow and develop into stars. If we are serious about developing more star forwards they need to have a better plan for the next crop than bringing them in slowly and playing off the bench for half their careers cause the best of the young forwards will just leave and the ones we keep won’t be good enough to keep us at a high level after the next few years.

As long as we are winning premierships, we will never be able to blood new props or future juniors to stay in our club, salary cap hinders it, and clubs come poaching the fringe players we aren't giving priority to... case in point Leniu, Staines and Critta
If we weren't so high on the ladder other clubs wouldn't be so keen to poach from us

 

[hindy111]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. Leota is a good prop and yes he has a a few good seasons left in him. Spencer will be better and then some and has many more seasons in him. It's about the future, not just today. Bellamy, Gould and Robinson wanted him. I wonder why? Are they off their head too?

Spencer could be anything yes. But this doesn't always happen. Let's break down what you need as a prop to be top shelf.

1- Power and acceleration- Spencer gets an A+
2 - Fast play the balls - Spencer has this
3 - Big motor - Questionable
4. Ball skills - I've seen any
5. Mobile defender - I can't judge him here. I would say average at best from what I've seen.
6. High work rate - No
7. Leadership skills - No

So everyone is getting caught up on his run game. Does anyone remember last years Grand final. Parras pack is very good. Big and powerfull. Problem is starve those types of possession and by time get ball they are gassed and can't do anything. Small,aggressive and fast forwards are becoming very important. Think Rueben Cotter types.

With fans wanting entertainment and NRL being a product we need a fast game. What you want in a Prop three years ago is very different to now.

 

[hindy111]

There is no doubt fish and Moses are our top props I got no argument there. But at some point in the next 3-6 years they are very likely going to lose their starting spots, they are close in age and while it’s great for now it’s just the reality of sport and life that after 30 the decline will happen. While I hate losing Spencer the bigger concern is the attitude that there’s no chance we’d pay on potential instead of sticking with the established guys. It worries me cause if we have another gun prop come through in two years are we gonna be telling him sorry kid bide your time, take less money and minutes cause fish and Moses took less last time are they are still better than you? Because that would be nice for fish and Leota but not smart for the club.

That makes no sense. Your in win now mode not rebuild.

2023 can win it all.

2024 we don't know who comes thru. Id expect 2025/2026 to be a lot of new juniors and very good again. I would say 2027 is when a real build will be required. Guys like Yeo,To'o could be getting a bit passed best footy.

So I think the clubs plans will change in 2yrs. They would be putting more energy into planning then me or you and they know what ages players start to decline. They'd also know which ones are always going to chase dollars and which ones are happy to be on a little unders.

 

[Abacus]

Spencer could be anything yes. But this doesn't always happen. Let's break down what you need as a prop to be top shelf.

1- Power and acceleration- Spencer gets an A+
2 - Fast play the balls - Spencer has this
3 - Big motor - Questionable
4. Ball skills - I've seen any
5. Mobile defender - I can't judge him here. I would say average at best from what I've seen.
6. High work rate - No
7. Leadership skills - No

So everyone is getting caught up on his run game.

Agree x 1 million with this. I don't think Spencer has the motor to allow him to have the high work rate or effectiveness in defence to be a top prop.

Also agree with the posts where we need to settle on what the core of the side will be going forward. While some guys will stay for less than they could get at other clubs, all of them will be getting paid more than they were 3-4 years ago before we started this dream run. Conservatively, 5-6 players getting an extra $200k p.a. than they were 3 years ago means you need to lose 2, maybe 3, quality players every couple of years. We're in the enviable position of having 15 guys having increased their values through results - we can't keep them all and stay cap compliant.

Spencer was a nice to have, not a necessity. Shit, Sorenson has been more effective - I'll back the club to find another Sorro or 2 so we can have the core intact. Right now, I couldn't justify paying Spencer the same/similar to Moses for what they deliver now and for the next 2-3 years.

 

[Iamback]

We don’t need someone to be Kikau, we need someone to slot into our system and do the basics very well. The points will come from elsewhere.
Kikau’s size and Skill were are massive bonus but not essential.

The system will change though, I don't understand how you don't get that.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

The other thing is guys like Yeo and fish didn’t develop into the players they are by playing limited minutes off the bench deep into their 20s. They debuted young and were given big roles in the side and time grow and develop into stars. If we are serious about developing more star forwards they need to have a better plan for the next crop than bringing them in slowly and playing off the bench for half their careers cause the best of the young forwards will just leave and the ones we keep won’t be good enough to keep us at a high level after the next few years.

A few things.
1) I’m not sure that is right about Fish. He was definitely a bench second rower for a few years. Yeo was in the backs for a few years, so a different position.
2) Neither of them had the chance to play with a team that went deep into the finals every year. Spencer has also been to a World Cup (which Yeo never did, unsure about Fish).

 

[Iamback]

Agree x 1 million with this. I don't think Spencer has the motor to allow him to have the high work rate or effectiveness in defence to be a top prop.

Also agree with the posts where we need to settle on what the core of the side will be going forward. While some guys will stay for less than they could get at other clubs, all of them will be getting paid more than they were 3-4 years ago before we started this dream run. Conservatively, 5-6 players getting an extra $200k p.a. than they were 3 years ago means you need to lose 2, maybe 3, quality players every couple of years. We're in the enviable position of having 15 guys having increased their values through results - we can't keep them all and stay cap compliant.

Spencer was a nice to have, not a necessity. Shit, Sorenson has been more effective - I'll back the club to find another Sorro or 2 so we can have the core intact. Right now, I couldn't justify paying Spencer the same/similar to Moses for what they deliver now and for the next 2-3 years.

The guys that are going are either not in a key position or want a bigger role we can't give.

Edwards
To'o
Luai
Cleary
Yeo
Fish
Leota
Martin

is a pretty handy core moving forward, Especially with what is coming up. The other roles you can fill with cheap imports if needed

 

[Iamback]

A few things.
1) I’m not sure that is right about Fish. He was definitely a bench second rower for a few years. Yeo was in the backs for a few years, so a different position.
2) Neither of them had the chance to play with a team that went deep into the finals every year. Spencer has also been to a World Cup (which Yeo never did, unsure about Fish).

Yeo began as a centre, He was on an edge as late as 2018 even.

 

[Luke Bowden]

The system will change though, I don't understand how you don't get that.

They aren’t going to change the way the entire club plays it’s footy mate. Just because two players have left. Small changes to our attack maybe, but the foundations won’t change.

 

[hindy111]

Fans just love new toys rather the tried and tested. I can think of quite a few hyped up Parra juniors fans cried about losing. Fast forward a few years and nobody cares. Most become average.
I'm sure Penrith fans can also. Wasn't Bryce the next SBW and people wanted him in origin. The guy has spent most his career in NSW CUP.

 

[betcats]

A few things.
1) I’m not sure that is right about Fish. He was definitely a bench second rower for a few years. Yeo was in the backs for a few years, so a different position.
2) Neither of them had the chance to play with a team that went deep into the finals every year. Spencer has also been to a World Cup (which Yeo never did, unsure about Fish).

Fish debuted in 2016 and he was starting games that year, he started plenty of games in 2016 and 2017. Yeo was starting games in the pack by 2016 after debuting in 2014.

 

[betcats]

That makes no sense. Your in win now mode not rebuild.

2023 can win it all.

2024 we don't know who comes thru. Id expect 2025/2026 to be a lot of new juniors and very good again. I would say 2027 is when a real build will be required. Guys like Yeo,To'o could be getting a bit passed best footy.

So I think the clubs plans will change in 2yrs. They would be putting more energy into planning then me or you and they know what ages players start to decline. They'd also know which ones are always going to chase dollars and which ones are happy to be on a little unders.

Planning to need to do a rebuild in a few years makes no sense. We arent going to be good in 2027 if we get to a point where our starting middles are past their best and we are only then looking to bring in some younger guys, that will be a fail.

 

[Iamback]

Agree x 1 million with this. I don't think Spencer has the motor to allow him to have the high work rate or effectiveness in defence to be a top prop.

Also agree with the posts where we need to settle on what the core of the side will be going forward. While some guys will stay for less than they could get at other clubs, all of them will be getting paid more than they were 3-4 years ago before we started this dream run. Conservatively, 5-6 players getting an extra $200k p.a. than they were 3 years ago means you need to lose 2, maybe 3, quality players every couple of years. We're in the enviable position of having 15 guys having increased their values through results - we can't keep them all and stay cap compliant.

Spencer was a nice to have, not a necessity. Shit, Sorenson has been more effective - I'll back the club to find another Sorro or 2 so we can have the core intact. Right now, I couldn't justify paying Spencer the same/similar to Moses for what they deliver now and for the next 2-3 years.

I think in the modern game Hoskings could be handy in the Sorro role

 

[Iamback]

They aren’t going to change the way the entire club plays it’s footy mate. Just because two players have left. Small changes to our attack maybe, but the foundations won’t change.

Where did I say the entire club will change?

Big back 3 to start sets off well
Strong kicking game
Great defence and linespeed

All won't change.

Martin is now our number 1 edge. Edwards started to get involved more on right. Maybe Luai roams more and is also on the right.

More offloads, early kicks are all things that can be done. All though are changes to what we have done across 3 seasons