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Rumoured Targets 3

Still Nutty

Still Nutty

Juniors
Messages
870
To be honest, at this point I think our fortunes on improving the quality of signings now rests with Brown and his coaching ability.

We have the cash but are not seen as an attractive option, even where we can offer overs and I think the change needs to be that players need to see this place as an option for finals football and the missing component is Brown's ability to show that his coaching ability will give them that opportunity and that isn't obvious at present.

Don't get me wrong, I am comfortable and a supporter of everything that Brown has done to this point with the club and the effort he and Mooney are putting in to the recruitment and retention strategy. BUT the factor he now needs to bring is a belief that, if he gets the squad he is trying to sign, he can improve a side by coaching, game plans and strategy.

That is something in his control, even now, to show that he is developing a capacity to man and strategically manage a squad to improve and compete better as a season progresses.

We can all talk about the limited cattle he has and the injuries and issues he has had to address but at the end of the day, other good coaches also have these issues to deal with BUT they manage to find a way to get that demonstrable progress and it is the one thing that has disappointed me so far about what we have seen from Brown....I think our signing ability in the off season is going to come down to how much we can get 'ugly' wins out of the back end of this season and show that we do have the capacity to be a finals football team.

I'm still a fan of Brown but this is HIS challenge and HE needs to show the player market that he is somebody they can have faith in as a coach and would want to play for
 
Mr_Knightside

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,375
Still Nutty said:
To be honest, at this point I think our fortunes on improving the quality of signings now rests with Brown and his coaching ability.

We have the cash but are not seen as an attractive option, even where we can offer overs and I think the change needs to be that players need to see this place as an option for finals football and the missing component is Brown's ability to show that his coaching ability will give them that opportunity and that isn't obvious at present.

Don't get me wrong, I am comfortable and a supporter of everything that Brown has done to this point with the club and the effort he and Mooney are putting in to the recruitment and retention strategy. BUT the factor he now needs to bring is a belief that, if he gets the squad he is trying to sign, he can improve a side by coaching, game plans and strategy.

That is something in his control, even now, to show that he is developing a capacity to man and strategically manage a squad to improve and compete better as a season progresses.

We can all talk about the limited cattle he has and the injuries and issues he has had to address but at the end of the day, other good coaches also have these issues to deal with BUT they manage to find a way to get that demonstrable progress and it is the one thing that has disappointed me so far about what we have seen from Brown....I think our signing ability in the off season is going to come down to how much we can get 'ugly' wins out of the back end of this season and show that we do have the capacity to be a finals football team.

I'm still a fan of Brown but this is HIS challenge and HE needs to show the player market that he is somebody they can have faith in as a coach and would want to play for
Click to expand...

This is a very true statement. It's no coincidence that the best coaches attract the best players and it's time that Brown showed us his coaching ability. If we can jag another 3+ wins this season it will give me some hope that we'll become more of an option for players in the market. Until then it's going to continue to be tough.

At least the up side as the moment is that most of our squad has improved on last year or is currently showing improvement and I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that the young guys like Stone, Yates, D & J Saifiti, King, Lamb, Levi, Barnett, Sione etc. will be better again next year. Adding a couple of experienced guys from a good system will help with that for sure.
 
J

Joel-22

Juniors
Messages
899
Also, i've been very impressed with the development of lachlan fitzgibbon. Like all our boys, if he can continue to add strength and good weight to his frame I really think he could be something
 
Glendale

Glendale

Juniors
Messages
879
slotmachine said:
Has Sione or J Saifiti or Barnett or King improved?
Click to expand...

- Are you gonna give Brown credit for moving Sione from the centres where he was floundering to the backrow where he's been going well? Oh that's right you don't like Sione and you don't like Brown...
- Jacob has been getting slowly better, another player that's Brown has moved into a different position.
- King has been better this year then he was last year.

The improvement in the squad as a whole from last year to this year has been quite evident unless you've got your slotmachine coloured glasses on.
 
mozza91

mozza91

Coach
Messages
14,136
Other than maybe Jacob they all have. Barnett and Sione have come on a fair bit and I no longer have a heart attack every time King gets near the ball. He's pretty average but has certainly improved.
 
S

slotmachine

First Grade
Messages
7,418
I think Sione looked better last year in the five or six games he played at second row.
Barnett started with a bang but really dropped off.
King and Jacob treading water.
 
Still Nutty

Still Nutty

Juniors
Messages
870
Again, I'm not denying Brown is doing some good things with the individuals...this is about his credibility as a competitive coach at the NRL level.

If you look at what has happened at Wests versus us on player signings this year, a significant component has been Cleary's reputation as a coach. First, as somebody that others want to play for and second and more importantly as a coach they see has the ability to deliver game plans and a strategic framework that will see his teams make and compete in finals series.

Brown has achieved and exceeded my expectations on every other element he has brought to this club BUT this is my make or break on whether he is the right coach to take us the next step....I genuinely hope he is because he has earned the right to see this through but it is the most important attribute he needs to display now, otherwise he has served us well and set a great foundation but we may well need a new structure.

In fairness, I think he has earned the right to take us into next year and we see what off season signings he and Mooney can secure...but, come round 10, regardless of what squad we have amassed, we should be evaluating whether he gets a contract extension.
 
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S

slotmachine

First Grade
Messages
7,418
Sione (in the second row)
2016: 5 games 12 runs 118m 31 tackles 4.2 missed 1 try 0 line breaks
2017: 13 games 9 runs 80m 27 tackles 2.8 missed 2 tries 2 line breaks

Jacob
2016: 18 games 9 runs 78m 26 tackles 2.3 missed 2 tries 0 line breaks
2017: 12 games 7 runs 63m 18 tackles 1.3 missed 0 tries 0 line breaks

King
2016: 12 games 7 runs 57m 21 tackles 1.4 missed 0 tries 0 line breaks 0.7 errors
2017: 5 games 8 runs 59m 19 tackles 1.4 missed 0 tries 1 line break 0.4 errors

Barnett
2016: 9 games 16 runs 126m 32 tackles 3.1 missed 2 tries 3 line breaks
2017: 12 games 11 runs 81m 35 tackles 2.7 missed 0 tries 0 line breaks


Cleary signed a whole lot of blokes he had coached before. He probably does have a better rep as an NRL coach though.

If Wests ever buy the Knights they might want to go in a different direction.
 
Mr_Knightside

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,375
Still Nutty said:
Again, I'm not denying Brown is doing some good things with the individuals...this is about his credibility as a competitive coach at the NRL level.

If you look at what has happened at Wests versus us on player signings this year, a significant component has been Cleary's reputation as a coach. First, as somebody that others want to play for and second and more importantly as a coach they see has the ability to deliver game plans and a strategic framework that will see his teams make and compete in finals series.

Brown has achieved and succeeded my expectations on every other element he has brought to this club BUT this is my make or break on whether he is the right coach to take us the next step....I genuinely hope he is because he has earned the right to see this through but it is the most important attribute he needs to display now, otherwise he has served us well and set a great foundation but we may well need a new structure.

In fairness, I think he has earned the right to take us into next year and we see what off season signings he and Mooney can secure...but, come round 10, regardless of what squad we have amassed, we should be evaluating whether he gets a contract extension.
Click to expand...

I agree that Cleary has more pull with players because of his reputation, one of the problems that Brown has here is that he was in the ESL for about 8 years or so before coming back to the NRL so there aren't many players around now who played for him at that time and would be around to talk him up. We all know that the players would be talking to each other about how they found a particular coach was to play for so Brown is a bit behind the 8-ball in that regard because there just aren't many current players out there who can advocate for him.

I also think he has earned the right to take us to the next stage given how much dirty work he has had to do since he got here. But regardless of the squad he has at his disposal we still need to see more than 1 or 2 wins in a season to be convinced. I've got my fingers crossed that he can get us there, because he seems like a top bloke and he's the first coach we've had in forever that actually understands what this rebuild actually needs to look like.
 
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Still Nutty

Still Nutty

Juniors
Messages
870
slotmachine said:
Sione (in the second row)

Cleary signed a whole lot of blokes he had coached before. He probably does have a better rep as an NRL coach though.
Click to expand...

And more importantly, they wanted to play for him again, which was my point...

Brown doesn't currently have that credibility in the player market, which is why I think we are not picking up some of those players in close negotiations. He needs to establish the rep that he can coach a winning culture into a team (starting with the current crop he has) or he will become a detriment to us not securing the sorts of players we need to attract.
 
V

Volcom6685

Juniors
Messages
120
Still Nutty said:
And more importantly, they wanted to play for him again, which was my point...

Brown doesn't currently have that credibility in the player market, which is why I think we are not picking up some of those players in close negotiations. He needs to establish the rep that he can coach a winning culture into a team (starting with the current crop he has) or he will become a detriment to us not securing the sorts of players we need to attract.
Click to expand...
It obviously has nothing to do with the tigers being in Sydney or anything does it ?
 
Still Nutty

Still Nutty

Juniors
Messages
870
Volcom6685 said:
It obviously has nothing to do with the tigers being in Sydney or anything does it ?
Click to expand...

Sure, they are all factors in player decisions...which is why we need things like being part of a Brown coached side as an attractant.

If it was easy and we didn't have to contend with TPAs and the lack of appeal in having to move to play here, etc. then we would be in a strong position to compete in the player market.

My whole point is that this aspect of our capacity to attract players does rest directly with Brown's capability and I now believe we need him to step up to this part of the challenge.

He has risen to the other challenges so far and I hope he can do the same here because it will change all our fortunes for the better...but it is HIS challenge to rise to now
 
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