Rumoured Targets 3

[Alex28]

Maybe we are better off without Jonah. If he isn’t smart enough to realise he is going to waste a third of his career waiting for the Dally M winning halfback to not re-sign with the club past 2026 when he could be playing first grade, maybe he isn’t the smart halfback we need.

What terrible advice he is getting.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Success breeds success. I never said the Storm aren’t well run. They’re very well run. I just said it’s easier when things fall in your lap. Brisbane having a monopoly over the best juniors nursery in the country + being the biggest franchise in Australian sport + always polling in first in “which club would you like to play for if not the club you’re already at” surveys is a bigger competitive advantage than any other club has had, so that shows you how poorly that club is run. It’s weird that the Roosters have been more successful than them & are the ones who always get the big free agents and that’s only happened because the Broncos have fumbled the bag somewhat.

Penrith are very different. They were mired in mediocrity and actually did implement a long term plan and stuck with it. They combed through a shitload of teenagers to find kids like Cleary and Luai - Cleary being the son of a former great player is a happy coincidence, nothing was handed to him - and moulded them into the players they want. They had a philosophy about how the game should be played and how halves should be developed - watch Isaiya Katoa play and it’s uncanny how similar his kicking technique etc is to Cleary’s - and they stuck by it. They convinced Jarome Luai to wait his turn while Cleary learned his trade with a more experienced halves partner in James Maloney, all the while results were mediocre and the pressure to find a quick fix was massive.

They accomplished all this while being one of the least appealing clubs to free agents and no one thinking of them as a “big club” - even still, to this day, you had Spencer Leniu describing the Roosters as “the pinnacle of the NRL” after he just played for a three time defending premier the Roosters haven’t beaten in 5 years. It’s remarkable.

Penrith have inarguably put themselves on a level above everyone else. Would have thought accomplishing feats Melbourne hasn’t sniffed without cheating the salary cap would make this hard to argue with but I suppose not. I admire Penrith because they are what the Knights should aspire to be if we invest in the things we do have going for us. The path Melbourne and the Roosters have taken is not one which is available to us.

If you want to know what the Storm would look like in the NRL era without a fair amount of serendipity, look at the Sharks. Very comparably well-run clubs, very similar operations in a lot of ways.

 

[Alex28]

Pretty sure KP would get a heap of TPAs on top of a full salary from the Knights like you said.

He could get a heap of TPA’s if he wanted to. The point is he didn’t, and helped to f**k our cap a little bit more than it already was.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Maybe we are better off without Jonah. If he isn’t smart enough to realise he is going to waste a third of his career waiting for the Dally M winning halfback to not re-sign with the club past 2026 when he could be playing first grade, maybe he isn’t the smart halfback we need.

What terrible advice he is getting.

We don’t know if he has decided that. Guys like Brent Read say what the clubs tell them to say. That’s how you get access. He’s reported Reece Walsh as having signed an extension multiple times.

 

[HarVeeGee]

He could get a heap of TPA’s if he wanted to. The point is he didn’t, and helped to f**k our cap a little bit more than it already was.

Knights wary of Roosters raid as third party speaks out over Ponga deal

Knights officials fear an approach to the NRL by Andre Ponga to seek clarity on contractual issues could be the first steps in a plan to extract Kalyn from the club.

www.smh.com.au

Okay, so, here’s what I’m hearing.

When Kalyn Ponga posts an ad on his Instagram for an online phone game:
… it is, in fact, the Knights paying for this? They negotiated a contract which said “$1.4 million per season to play rugby league for the Knights, and also promote competitive match 3 online phone games and local car dealerships”?

When he gets to training, does AOB haul him into his office to scream at him for not seeming sincere enough when he was talking about how much he loves Call of Duty in an ad he saw the night before?

No? Well I’m suggesting it’s possible, just maybe, that he is in fact getting a bit of money on the side from third parties.

 

[Apey]

Success breeds success. I never said the Storm aren’t well run. They’re very well run. I just said it’s easier when things fall in your lap. Brisbane having a monopoly over the best juniors nursery in the country + being the biggest franchise in Australian sport + always polling in first in “which club would you like to play for if not the club you’re already at” surveys is a bigger competitive advantage than any other club has had, so that shows you how poorly that club is run. It’s weird that the Roosters have been more successful than them & are the ones who always get the big free agents and that’s only happened because the Broncos have fumbled the bag somewhat.

Penrith are very different. They were mired in mediocrity and actually did implement a long term plan and stuck with it. They combed through a shitload of teenagers to find kids like Cleary and Luai - Cleary being the son of a former great player is a happy coincidence, nothing was handed to him - and moulded them into the players they want. They had a philosophy about how the game should be played and how halves should be developed - watch Isaiya Katoa play and it’s uncanny how similar his kicking technique etc is to Cleary’s - and they stuck by it. They convinced Jarome Luai to wait his turn while Cleary learned his trade with a more experienced halves partner in James Maloney, all the while results were mediocre and the pressure to find a quick fix was massive.

They accomplished all this while being one of the least appealing clubs to free agents and no one thinking of them as a “big club” - even still, to this day, you had Spencer Leniu describing the Roosters as “the pinnacle of the NRL” after he just played for a three time defending premier the Roosters haven’t beaten in 5 years. It’s remarkable.

Penrith have inarguably put themselves on a level above everyone else. Would have thought accomplishing feats Melbourne hasn’t sniffed without cheating the salary cap would make this hard to argue with but I suppose not. I admire Penrith because they are what the Knights should aspire to be if we invest in the things we do have going for us. The path Melbourne and the Roosters have taken is not one which is available to us.

If you want to know what the Storm would look like in the NRL era without a fair amount of serendipity, look at the Sharks. Very comparably well-run clubs, very similar operations in a lot of ways.

How are the Storm like the Sharks? They've had several coaches in the last 15 years that aren't in the same postcode as Bellamy, they don't make plodders look a million bucks, I wouldn't say they have anything resembling a long term culture of success by any metric.

Your argument seems to be if other teams had been "lucky" enough to have found Smith, Slater, Cronk, Munster, Paps etc then they'd be successful too. Well, yeah. But the argument doesn't extend to Cleary, Luai, Yeo for some reason. It's not like Storm sniped their blokes from other teams in their mid 20s.

Storm have been the benchmark of success due to their "systems" for almost 15 years now. No doubt Panthers currently are the most successful club but imo we don't know yet if this will result in long-term, consistent success beyond some generational players. You talk of the Storm all-time greats yet despite their losses, the Panthers have managed to keep a core of Cleary, Yeo, Edwards, To'o, Leota and until this year JFH & Luai. The first two in particular will go down as some of the best players ever to play the sport in their position.

Here's some "luck" - since 2020 Panthers have had the following players missing games from their 5 finals runs (none of them GFs) while their opposition has often been missing at least 1 star (Storm 21 Prelim lost 2 props in the first half, Latrell 21 GF, Nelson 2024 GF):

Leota - 2
Cleary, Luai (+ 23 GF injury) Edwards, JFH, Taylan May - 1

No team gets anywhere without a certain element of luck. Hell, the Panthers had the biggest rule change in the last 20 years come in in 2020 that completely changed the way the game was played, after failing to make the 8 in 2019 which just happens to coincide with the start of their run.

 

[Knight Tales]

Not at all, I just cant see how compared to the Storm the Knights are an attractive proposition for the young fella - and frankly the Knights organization only has itself to blame. Can't even muster a professional process/ press release for their marque signing. Not exactly a great look.


what? Players I've criticized and mentioned to let go ( long ago mind you) - Dsaf, Brailey, Hetherington, Elliot, Hastings. ( 16% of the roster ?) Cannot see KPP staying beyond next season if his reported salary is correct. - jettison these cap thieves and replace them with young players of a high ceiling potential ( Sully has started this already) and funnel the savings towards retention and most importantly - quality halves.

The rest offer value for the cap expenditure. Lucas is a favorite, Ponga is the arguably the best player of his generation and worth every penny, Best a beast. Gags and Friz invaluable mentors. Marz I rank up there with the best on his day and on a pie and a coke, along with Crossland and Croker are players you wins comps with by consistently exceeding their pay grade.

There has to be a balance though. And we have made the eight on four occasions in AOB’s five years here. As much as we criticise his style of play, stronger rosters have come up short of us.
So the selling of the club to players may not be as hard as you believe it is. Pezet would see any offer to leave the Storm as a massive gamble at only 21. It is not specific to it being us.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Well yeah there’s always luck involved. The greatest halfback of all time happening to be born in Cessnock + also having a very good brother who plays five-eighth + a generational crop of backline and forward players being born in the Hunter and Mid North Coast region all around the same time was like being kissed on the dick by fate. The Knights followed that up by systematically f**king up the pathways system (Brian Smith, as I understand it, is a huge culprit on this front, and should get way more hate than Wayne Bennett does from Knights fans). This is an example of poor management and a badly run club, which I believe is steadily being corrected, but it’s honestly harder to take a bad situation and fix it than it is to start from scratch.

I think the Sharks and Storm comparison is apt:
- Relatively weak local juniors catchments, so a reliance on sniping talented older teens from other systems or taking in rejects with untapped potential and turning them into first graders.
- Proper use of reserve grade as a genuine part of development pathways.
- Cheated the salary cap to chase premierships a bit over a decade ago and ended up basically getting away with it, having exactly one premiership from that era show for it.
- Innovators in dirty on-field tactics.

Yeah sure the Sharks have had less stability in the coaching ranks, but not in the football department. They have Craig Fitzgibbon now who has the second best win % of any active coach. I’d say his job is secure.

I agree they don’t have as much of a “culture of success” as Melbourne, but their lowest ladder finish in the last ten seasons is 9th, with four top 4 finishes and one premiership. There are literally only maybe 3 fanbases who wouldn’t bite your hand off if offered that as what would happen in the next ten years for their team.

They haven’t been doing it as long as Melbourne, but they didn’t have the benefit of entering the comp as the one expansion team in a season where three clubs were being removed - allowing the new club first dibs on all of the best players from those three clubs. You want to know why Melbourne won a comp straight away and the Titans and Dolphins haven’t replicated it? That’s why.

 

[Yosh]

There has to be a balance though. And we have made the eight on four occasions in AOB’s five years here. As much as we criticise his style of play, stronger rosters have come up short of us.
So the selling of the club to players may not be as hard as you believe it is. Pezet would see any offer to leave the Storm as a massive gamble at only 21. It is not specific to it being us.

Making the 8 is a very very low benchmark. That's literally average. We saying average is good now.

We should be making the top 4 every season. We should be making a grand final every 3 or 4 seasons. That's the sort of targets I want us to be aiming for.

 

[Woody90]

Most likely just making shit up but some guy on Facebook commenting that Ben Hunt was seen with AOB this week.

Not saying I believe it or that I’d want us to sign Hunt but the off season speculation is fun lol

 

[HarVeeGee]

Most likely just making shit up but some guy on Facebook commenting that Ben Hunt was seen with AOB this week.

Not saying I believe it or that I’d want us to sign Hunt but the off season speculation is fun lol

HELL YEAH KNIGHTS TOP FOUR TOUR 2K25 LET’S GOOOOO!

 

[Woody90]

If there was even an inkling of Moses being available anything should be on the table to get him. But there isn’t.

Tbh unless the Eels completely turn it around under Ryles next year (not impossible), he’s odd on to ask for a release IMO. Will be 31 without a premiership and they need to replace a lot of experience. It just wouldn’t be to the Knights. He’s got Bulldogs/Gus signing written all over him IMO.

 

[Dr Dr Gimedanews]

Brisbane having a monopoly over the best juniors nursery in the country + being the biggest franchise in Australian sport + always polling in first in “which club would you like to play for if not the club you’re already at” surveys is a bigger competitive advantage than any other club has had, so that shows you how poorly that club is run

Owned by and having literally a 24/7 network broadcasting propaganda in FOX certainly helps. Those commentators are certainly aware who pays the bills.

Okay, so, here’s what I’m hearing.

When Kalyn Ponga posts an ad on his Instagram for an online phone game:
… it is, in fact, the Knights paying for this? They negotiated a contract which said “$1.4 million per season to play rugby league for the Knights, and also promote competitive match 3 online phone games and local car dealerships”?

When he gets to training, does AOB haul him into his office to scream at him for not seeming sincere enough when he was talking about how much he loves Call of Duty in an ad he saw the night before?

No? Well I’m suggesting it’s possible, just maybe, that he is in fact getting a bit of money on the side from third parties.

There is a difference between sponsorship and a TPA - it's well known Ponga is a brand ambassador for Nike, which would carry through if he signed for the Tigers next year.

 

[Rod]

I brought Hunt up a few weeks ago and it didn't go down too well. I still think he would be a good stopgap option especially if Pezet doesn't eventuate.

 

[perverse]

There is a difference between sponsorship and a TPA - it's well known Ponga is a brand ambassador for Nike, which would carry through if he signed for the Tigers next year.

What is the difference between a TPA and a sponsorship, since the clubs aren't supposed to negotiate TPAs?

TPA's only exist, to the best of my knowledge, because without accommodating players income outside of their contracts it would be a restraint of trade nightmare for the NRL right?

Honestly, I don't know if anyone can give a clear answer on any of that, the NRL included. All seems like a bunch of bullshit to me when the Roosters sit there with a straight face and claim to be one of the clubs with the least TPAs in the league. What a true load of bollocks.

 

[Dr Dr Gimedanews]

What is the difference between a TPA and a sponsorship, since the clubs aren't supposed to negotiate TPAs?

TPA's only exist, to the best of my knowledge, because without accommodating players income outside of their contracts it would be a restraint of trade nightmare for the NRL right?

Honestly, I don't know if anyone can give a clear answer on any of that, the NRL included. All seems like a bunch of bullshit to me when the Roosters sit there with a straight face and claim to be one of the clubs with the least TPAs in the league. What a true load of bollocks.

The only difference I'm aware is TPA are specifically offered as an enticement to the player to sign with a club, . Yeh very murky .

In Nike sponsorship of Kalyn the contract is an association with the Ponga brand and not specific to what club he plays for.

Regards to the Roosters, it is beyond unbelievable, the NRL treats punters as mugs. No one in their right mind would think all is above board there. I love the Panthers model of success, and they should be compensated under the cap for producing those juniors.

 

[Alex28]

Making the 8 is a very very low benchmark. That's literally average. We saying average is good now.

We should be making the top 4 every season. We should be making a grand final every 3 or 4 seasons. That's the sort of targets I want us to be aiming for.

That is all pipe dream stuff for any club that isn’t Penrith or Melbourne. Not even the Roosters has that sort of record.

Top 8 isn’t average - it’s above average. We are an above average team - we are good, just not great.

Agree we should - and I think we are - aspiring to be great.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Ah but if you ask the rugby league media, the Roosters success is because they’re an elite development club! At least some of their players came through their pathways! It’s all got nothing to do with them being the club that signs the biggest free agent every off season, heavens above no!

 

[HarVeeGee]

I brought Hunt up a few weeks ago and it didn't go down too well. I still think he would be a good stopgap option especially if Pezet doesn't eventuate.

Of all the players who might change club he’d definitely make the biggest difference immediately on his own. His issues are that he kind of seems like a dickhead and he’s probably more driven by money than success. Gun player though who’s honestly playing his best footy right now - his skill execution has caught up with how audacious his decision making can be. I know Dragons fans are blaming him for their season going pear shaped but that’s as silly as the blame some people have heaped on Kalyn whenever the Knights lose. If you only have one properly dangerous attacking spine player, there’s a limit on your team’s ceiling. He and Kalyn together would take so much of the load off one another.

I guess if you commit to the bloke for two years, that’s two years in which you can try to plan to find a permanent solution. As opposed to Mitch Pearce saying he’ll be here for the season after next, then pissing off at the end of that season, robbing us of any chance to look for his replacement in a season where about a half dozen starting calibre halves changed clubs.

The ideal would probably be pursuing an elite half around Kalyn’s age, but we missed the window to chase Jarome Luai unfortunately.

 

[Dr Dr Gimedanews]

The ideal would probably be pursuing an elite half around Kalyn’s age, but we missed the window to chase Jarome Luai unfortunately.

That would not be the Knights way - such has been their cap mismanagement. A penchant for not chasing youth to develop with minimal cap outlay and potential high return, or blue chip players like Luai due to a lack of cap money.

The Knights jam is to instead sign average players to average salaries commensurate with their position , often late 20 something journeymen, (Cogger, Gamble, Hastings, Elliot, Hetherington*) with very little upside. The type that if they hit a bad run of form are a cap negative and collectively kill the cap, and the cherry is they're taking a position of a kid that could develop into something special and doesnt want to leave the club.

And somehow in the Knights dreams they expect to rise anything above mediocrity by just scrapping into the 8.

* all the type of players you churn through on short deals in a rebuild.