Rumours and Stuff

[oldmancraigy]

But when it counted and why they won, is they went right up the middle. Didn't say they were a smart team, they only started to lose the advantage when they decided to go around us and play fancy. But it was still good enough to be us. When their big boys took control we had nothing to counter them with.

Game set and match...they won.

They won because their big boy dropped the ball on the 5th but got given a penalty.

Game set and match.

Also if Jennings didnt kick ahead on the 2nd but tried to beat Wighton who knows...

Game was dang close against a team who played real good footy and desperate to win. I thought we did well - no Norman no Brown.

Props are a concern, for me Alvaro and Vave were excellent. Matagi and Mannah both struggling for form.
Our prop rotation is good enough to make the 8.

If we get back on track with a win over Souths the season is well alive.
We have a nice draw down the back end too

Evans will make a difference in place of Matagi next year. Mannah has been concerning since his sternum injury ages ago.

 

[Bazal]

Steve Price??? Petro was probably past his best when he went to Penrith.

Some may say Tamou but I don't class him as elite.

Even Price was probably at the very end of his peak years. You have to look pretty hard to find an elite prop who is worth the extra money it would take to pry them away from their club when you factor in squad balance. If Aaron Woods can get upwards of 800k supposedly to get out of a club he isn't happy at, imagine what a Fifita or a Klemmer would take to move....

 

[TheRam]

I'm not saying that we don't need a big body or two. I'm saying that people who want an entire pack of Junior Paulo will be the first to bitch about our defence being abysmal, and that our pack is far from being as bad as you and others seem to believe.

Big bodies need to be covered in defence.You need blokes to do that. You need balance. People fail to see that guys like Mannah and Alvaro are just as important as the big bodies.

Pull your dumb arse head in mate, no one is suggesting we get rid of all our forwards. But if you are smart you pick the right ones and ditch the surplus to requirements ones and replace them with monster ones.

Or if your smarter still, you get monster workers like the Storm have and monster metre eaters. Anything and everything is possible under the right direction and know how.

But thanks for the straw man argument anyway.

 

[I bleed blue & gold]

I gotta hunch the bloke we are apparently trying to sign for the rest of the year is Matt Lodge. We were speaking to him before he agreed to head to QLD and try to get a return with the Broncs.

 

[Bazal]

Pull your dumb arse head in mate, no one is suggesting we get rid of all our forwards. But if you are smart you pick the right ones and ditch the surplus to requirements ones and replace them with monster ones.

Or if your smarter still, you get monster workers like the Storm have and monster metre eaters. Anything and everything is possible under the right direction and know how.

But thanks for the straw man argument anyway.

Lol. Would you like me to quote the posts where posters have stated that we need to get rid of Mannah, Alvaro, Matagi and replace them with big bodies?

Or will that not suit your little tantrum?

 

[Soren Lorenson]

Because the elite props are usually brought through juniors (Klemmer, Bormwich, Scott) or poached as juniors (Fifita, JWH). It's much easier to keep a player for unders than to sign one for unders.

Incidentally, who was the last truly elite prop to change clubs at their peak?

It has got to be a tricky combo of luck and skill. Luck that the player improves and combines well with other players in the pack, and skill that the coach knows how to bring the best out of them. I reckon much of the frustration on this forum stems from the fact that other teams seem to have this 'luck' but we don't see it as clearly when it happens to us.
For example Baz, of the players you mentioned,
Bromwich- I'm fairly certain was bought as a 1st Grade rookie by Melbourne from Newcastle. Same with JWH from Manly to Rooters
Klemmer - Parra junior who the Dogs identified early
Fifita - dropped by the Tigers for being a merkin and still is.
Even the likes of Gallen - who really would've known how he would turn out.

For us in recent history - Poore, Shackleton, Mossop, Lussick, shit, even as back as far as Adam Rixon, all could've turned into great props, but didn't for one reason or another and thats what people tend to focus on.

Fui was the most obvious example of us pinching a young player from another club and it turning out really well. My point is, its hard to do and more often than not it doesn't come off and that's what we remember.

 

[Soren Lorenson]

Incidentally, who was the last truly elite prop to change clubs at their peak?

Dean Pay went alright.

 

[Bazal]

It has got to be a tricky combo of luck and skill. Luck that the player improves and combines well with other players in the pack, and skill that the coach knows how to bring the best out of them. I reckon much of the frustration on this forum stems from the fact that other teams seem to have this 'luck' but we don't see it as clearly when it happens to us.
For example Baz, of the players you mentioned,
Bromwich- I'm fairly certain was bought as a 1st Grade rookie by Melbourne from Newcastle. Same with JWH from Manly to Rooters
Klemmer - Parra junior who the Dogs identified early
Fifita - dropped by the Tigers for being a merkin and still is.
Even the likes of Gallen - who really wouldve known how he would turn out.

For us in recent history - Poore, Shackleton, Mossop, Lussick all could've turned into great props, but didn't for one reason or another and thats what people tend to focus on.

Fui was the most obvious example of us pinching a young player from another club and it turning out well. My point is, its hard to do and more often than not it doesn't come off and that's what we remember.

Yep, 100%. No elite prop that I can think of in recent times was signed after becoming an elite prop. And plenty of potential elite props never reached the heights that they could have.

I've said it earlier but I would have kept Twal at the expense of Terepo and/or O'Brien. At 20 he's 190cm and 103kg. Give it two years and he could easily be 115kg with his frame. He has the potential to be an elite prop and at worst a squad player, Terepo and O'Brien are already squad players with no more potential.

 

[Happy MEel]

Steve Price??? Petro was probably past his best when he went to Penrith.

Some may say Tamou but I don't class him as elite.

Fifita

 

[Soren Lorenson]

Yep, 100%. No elite prop that I can think of in recent times was signed after becoming an elite prop. And plenty of potential elite props never reached the heights that they could have.

I've said it earlier but I would have kept Twal at the expense of Terepo and/or O'Brien. At 20 he's 190cm and 103kg. Give it two years and he could easily be 115kg with his frame. He has the potential to be an elite prop and at worst a squad player, Terepo and O'Brien are already squad players with no more potential.

So I'm thinking that Evans was signed as a possibly finished version of what Twal might end up in 5 years. I'm optimistic about him based on looking at the likes of Bromwich who was nothing not so long ago.

 

[TheRam]

Lol. Would you like me to quote the posts where posters have stated that we need to get rid of Mannah, Alvaro, Matagi and replace them with big bodies?

Or will that not suit your little tantrum?

Lol. No, just because posters suggest we get rid of individual player X, that doesn't mean that poster or posters wish or want us to get rid of all our forwards and replace them with giants. As much as you would like to suggest. Or does that not suit your obvious obfuscating?

 

[Bazal]

So I'm thinking that Evans was signed as a possibly finished version of what Twal might end up in 5 years. I'm optimistic about him based on looking at the likes of Bromwich who was nothing not so long ago.

If we can get Evans work rate right he'll be close to elite, potentially. My worry is that he often seems lazy and disinterested. But he's certainly a good start.

The problem is, people want us to splash metric tonnes of cash on a genuinely elite prop, but they almost never come on the market and history shows that they are almost impossible to pry away from their clubs. Presumably because they will stay for less and it's not worth spending spine money on any prop because it disadvantages your spine. Like the Bulldogs have done.

 

[Bazal]

Lol. No, just because posters suggest we get rid of individual player X, that doesn't mean that poster or posters wish or want us to get rid of all our forwards and replace them with giants. As much as you would like to suggest. Or does that not suit your obvious obfuscating?

Yeah, I'm the one obfuscating by replying to the desire to get rid of the forwards people have named as forwards to get rid of....haha.

You're a mental case, Rammy.

 

[hineyrulz]

Fifita

He has turned into an elite prop but Baz asked when they were at their peak. I'd say he wasn't quite at his peak when he was pinched.

He's been a great get though don't get me wrong.

 

[Bazal]

Fifita

Was an unwanted fat troublemaker playing in NSW cup when Cronulla signed him.

 

[Gronk]

They won because their big boy dropped the ball on the 5th but got given a penalty.

Game set and match.

Also if Jennings didnt kick ahead on the 2nd but tried to beat Wighton who knows...

Game was dang close against a team who played real good footy and desperate to win. I thought we did well - no Norman no Brown.

Props are a concern, for me Alvaro and Vave were excellent. Matagi and Mannah both struggling for form.
Our prop rotation is good enough to make the 8.

If we get back on track with a win over Souths the season is well alive.
We have a nice draw down the back end too

Evans will make a difference in place of Matagi next year. Mannah has been concerning since his sternum injury ages ago.

Thanks for keeping it real. We were a pubic hair away from a win, yet the loss gives unneeded oxygen to a thousand theories why we are failing. This joint is bi-polar with the jubilation and wrist slitting depending the result.

 

[Happy MEel]

Was an unwanted fat troublemaker playing in NSW cup when Cronulla signed him.

Was James Graham elite in the Superleague?

Sam Burgess midway through his rugby stint?

 

[Bazal]

Was James Graham elite in the Superleague?

Sam Burgess midway through his rugby stint?

You could include them for sure. I didn't because they had an extra carrot that existing NRL players haven't got in that they wanted to come over to the premier RL comp in the world.

Even then it took big money.

 

[Happy MEel]

You could include them for sure. I didn't because they had an extra carrot that existing NRL players haven't got in that they wanted to come over to the premier RL comp in the world.

Even then it took big money.

I reckon that's the type of coin we should be setting aside (more likely 2019) to get this calibre of middle forward.

 

[Bazal]

I reckon that's the type of coin we should be setting aside (more likely 2019) to get this calibre of middle forward.

The problem is, history shows that elite props stay at the side that developed them. Or it takes spine money to move them.

We're much better off IMO scouring the game for a young prop or two in the JWH or Klemmer mould, poaching them for overs as the Roosters did with JWH, and developing them. Overs for a junior is still far less money than overs for a top flight player. I think the big thing with elite props is that you are very rarely lucky enough to sign one. You have to work hard on making one.

Woods and Matulino aren't elite, but both are rumoured to have signed for more money than we've spent on our new five-eighth....