Rumours and Stuff

[84 Baby]

I think I figured out how we keep coming back to the same f**king topics

 

[Glenneel]

No you wouldn’t have. Just like our club you would have signed the best available players to fit into the cap space available at the time.

You've certainly got your negative Nellie glasses on atm Pou so don't change anything and your assessments will eventually come true. One day you'll eventually be right. But keep being negative and sticking with the status quo, working a treat atm.

 

[Bazal]

Ahahahahaha

Glenneel just accused someone of being negative you guys!

Take me now, miscellaneous Gods of the universe, because I've seen it all

 

[84 Baby]

You've certainly got your negative Nellie glasses on atm Pou so don't change anything and your assessments will eventually come true. One day you'll eventually be right. But keep being negative and sticking with the status quo, working a treat atm.

I think you need to learn the definition of negative

 

[84 Baby]

Ahahahahaha

Glenneel just accused someone of being negative you guys!

Take me now, miscellaneous Gods of the universe, because I've seen it all

It's not the first time he's accused someone else of being negative. I guess some people are being negative to his own negative viewpoints, so I guess he's kind of correct

 

[Glenneel]

We have these off contract:

Auva'a
Davis
Gower
Hayne
Gennings
King
Matagi
Niukore
Pritchard
Scott
Terepo
Vave
Williams

And need to replace them in the top 30 with the same number of players, so a minimum of $1.18M (4 x $70k + 9 x $100k)

We have signed Junior Paulo for $650k at minimum, plus we've upgraded Alvaro and Brown (my guess is about $500k) so there's another $1.15M in next year's cap.

The only big money players off contract are Hayne and Scott (maybe $900k between them). Auva'a, King, Matagi, Pritchard, Terepo and Vave would be on about $200k each, so there's $1.2M freed up. Assume we flush all of them plus minimum salary players Davis, Gower, Gennings, Niukore and Williams ($500k for the five) and we have lost 13 from the squad and created $2.6M in cap space. Add Kenny Edwards' $300k that has just been freed up and we're looking at $2.9M

Then subtract the $650k for Paulo and the $500k for Alvaro and Brown's upgrades and you're left with $1.75M (let's be generous and call it $1.8M) for next year, with which we need to buy 12 players (the 13 we're letting go minus Junior Paulo). And here's the rub: it's easy to find players worth less than the minimum salary, but you have to pay them no less than the minimum salary (4 x $70k and the rest x $100k). You also need to be able to rely on a couple of them to play at least half the season, as well the rest to fill in during a crisis. You don't want Flegg graduates or part-timers from Wenty who are only worth $50k. If you're going to pay blokes $100k (or even $70k) you need them to be worth it, because they will appear in your NRL team during the season. You're better off paying a bloke that's worth $150k what he's worth as a backup than paying a bloke worth $50k double that just to fill your top 30 with cheapies. I dare say the backups worth exactly $100k (and willing to take it) aren't in such numbers that you can just find one off contract when you need him.

But let's assume we can find as many $100k players as we need (plus the four $70k players 27-30 in the squad). We have $1.8M to spend and 12 spots to fill. You want Lodge, TPJ, RFM and Koroisau. That would mean eight minimum salary players alongside them, costing $680k). So you have $1.12M to sign Lodge, TPJ, RFM and Koroisau. I would suggest we'd be lucky to get two of these blokes for that, plus fill the other two spots with minimum salary backups. Axing Norman would be a good way to get three of them (and one minimum salary backup) but it still leaves a hole in the outside backs.

Better economics would be to look at the top 17 as it stand for 2019. Let's assume Norman is gone and frees up $500k:

1. French
2.
3. Jennings
4.
5.
6. Gutherson
7. Moses
8. Alvaro
9.
10. Paulo
11. Ma'u
12. Moeroa
13. Brown
14.
15.
16. Evans
17. Mannah

Throw Takairangi in there at either 4 or 15. Plus these squad members who won't be in the ideal top 17:

18. Smith
19. Hoffman
20. Salmon

We now need not middle forwards, but a hooker plus at least one winger. That's just for our top 17. Signing more middle forwards, even if they're better than the ones we have, will just push more top 17 contracts out of the top 17. That is a dumb use of a limited resource (cap space). Plus if Norman is gone then we have 15 spots left to fill for next year (including a top 17 wing, hooker and at least two other edge players).

So in this magical fairytale world where Norman is gone and frees up $500k (and my numbers are inexplicably correct for all the merkins off contract) then we have $2.3M to sign four top 17 players and 11 backups on about minimum salary. For ease of accounting let's assume the backups average $100k each (so the four $70k players are evened out by some of the backups costing more than $100k). That makes $1.1M for backups, leaving $1.2M for the four top 17 players. That is $300k for each of those four, which is average salary under the current cap and therefore slightly less under next year's cap. But I think $300k is a very solid first grader, along the lines of Takairangi or Alvaro. It's probably a below average NRL hooker. We might get Mitch Rein for that or spend less at the other three positions and get Granville/Koroisau for $500k+

But I can't see how we can spend big on two more middle forwards and still have enough to fill the rest of the squad.

Good summary Pou and well thought out. However think your figure to spend is a bit light. Lets assume Norman is let go, and we'd be mad if we paid any of his freight, his salary would more than cover a new forward plus his replacement, say Salmon, would be $100k. So another good big middle forward and hopefully one of Penrith's young hookers for $200k. In summary think we could end up with 3 good middles and a hooker and have money left over. Most of our cheap roster spots could be filled with our juniors and we have some promising juniors coming thru.

 

[84 Baby]

Lets assume Norman is let go, and we'd be mad if we paid any of his freight

Ummm....

Looks like Parra are trying to offload Norman. A left field option, offer him to Broncos for full freight

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You've certainly got your negative Nellie glasses on atm Pou so don't change anything and your assessments will eventually come true. One day you'll eventually be right. But keep being negative and sticking with the status quo, working a treat atm.

I tipped we’d be top eight if we got a halfback last year and I was right. If we had just a normal amount of injuries this year we would again be challenging for the top eight, IMO, and I am probably right about that too.

I also suspected Edwards and Norman were negative influences at our club, which seems obvious on the surface. But they didn’t seem to stop us winning games prior to this year.

 

[Glenneel]

Welcome to Jurassic Park! Bennett is way way way past his prime.
And so you'd basically pay whatever we are paying Norman to Pangai? Edit sorry whatever we are paying Norman PLUS whatever we actually would have to pay Pangai?

FFS the negative nellies in you, Pou and Bazal want to criticise everything suggested that you 3 don't/can't think of. And you call us negative! At least some people here want Parra to succeed and make suggestions. All won't come true or be possible but its better than doing nothing, and that's what you 3 want. Is it because our season is going so well atm or...oh wait...we came 4th last year, lets celebrate that as if we won the comp.

 

[Bazal]

FFS the negative nellies in you, Pou and Bazal want to criticise everything suggested that you 3 don't/can't think of. And you call us negative! At least some people here want Parra to succeed and make suggestions. All won't come true or be possible but its better than doing nothing, and that's what you 3 want. Is it because our season is going so well atm or...oh wait...we came 4th last year, lets celebrate that as if we won the comp.

Ahahahahahaha

What an absolute f**kwit.

 

[84 Baby]

FFS the negative nellies in you, Pou and Bazal want to criticise everything suggested that you 3 don't/can't think of. And you call us negative! At least some people here want Parra to succeed and make suggestions. All won't come true or be possible but its better than doing nothing, and that's what you 3 want. Is it because our season is going so well atm or...oh wait...we came 4th last year, lets celebrate that as if we won the comp.

Wouldn't me celebrating a 4th place finish be the opposite of negative? I too want us to succeed, but I don't entertain wild, unreasonable, ill-conceived, often plain impossible "suggestions" that people wholeheartedly believe in and then bitch about it when the club don't follow the same notions.

Now for an un-"negative" response, I don't believe Bennett will improve us, for proof look at his Knights period. And I think paying Pangai effectively a million plus for next year would completely ruin our cap & squad, as well as be significant overs. Maybe if it's just the huge cap hit for 2019, we'd take it in order to get Pangai at the club longer term, but then a) you're pretty much writing off all of 2019 so you'd better be certain you have him for unders the rest of contract AND you can fill out the squad to definitely compete in those future years, and b) evidence points to you, even if we followed your suggestions, that if we did that you'd still bitch about us losing in 2019.

Sorry went a bit negative there at the end

 

[Soren Lorenson]

This is hilarious. Who wouldn't want to be a member of this forum. Never a dull moment.

 

[Bazal]

Wouldn't me celebrating a 4th place finish be the opposite of negative? I too want us to succeed, but I don't entertain wild, unreasonable, ill-conceived, often plain impossible "suggestions" that people wholeheartedly believe in and then bitch about it when the club don't follow the same notions.

Now for an un-"negative" response, I don't believe Bennett will improve us, for proof look at his Knights period. And I think paying Pangai effectively a million plus for next year would completely ruin our cap & squad, as well as be significant overs. Maybe if it's just the huge cap hit for 2019, we'd take it in order to get Pangai at the club longer term, but then a) you're pretty much writing off all of 2019 so you'd better be certain you have him for unders the rest of contract AND you can fill out the squad to definitely compete in those future years, and b) evidence points to you, even if we followed your suggestions, that if we did that you'd still bitch about us losing in 2019.

Sorry went a bit negative there at the end

I wonder if Glennyboy doesn't read what we post, CAN'T read what we post, or the fact that it seems to take him several days to respond to anything means he just misses it.

Negative and not offering solutions....utterly hilarious...

 

[84 Baby]

I wonder if Glennyboy doesn't read what we post, CAN'T read what we post, or the fact that it seems to take him several days to respond to anything means he just misses it.

Negative and not offering solutions....utterly hilarious...

I honestly think he's a few rolls short of a tool shed.

Or he's just trolling. If he is I don't know where he gets the energy

 

[hineyrulz]

Broncos are making a massive play for Bellamy so Bernie Gurr should be hopping immediately on a plane and talking to Bennett. Would be a massive coup if he came to Parra.

Looks like Parra are trying to offload Norman. A left field option, offer him to Broncos for full freight and for them to encourage Pangi Jnr to come to Parra. Another massive coup to get him here.

Its not 1998 anymore and we don’t have the thoroughbreds propping is up.

The only time he was at a club on an even playing field he pissed off back to the Donkeys.

Overrated fossil.

 

[hineyrulz]

This is hilarious. Who wouldn't want to be a member of this forum. Never a dull moment.

It’s very exciting.

 

[TheRam]

You're the one with the big plans on how to spend all the cap space we allegedly have. If my figures are unrealistic what are the correct ones?

Yet you're happy to proclaim how easy it would be to replace a number of contracted players in the lineup while leaving gaps at key top 17 positions.

And my point is just being better and available is only part of the consideration. If it wasn't, every team would solve all their roster shortfalls in the space of an off season.

Because you don't understand the implications.

Great way to wind up paying a bunch of blokes to play elsewhere. And piss off the remaining blokes in your squad who've just lost their mates.

After 2015 the Roosters lost Jennings, Maloney and RTS. They replaced them with guys like Copley, Burgess, Matterson, Nikorima and Michael Gordon. Rebuilds don't happen overnight, even when you're flush with TPAs.

I wouldn't have a clue, just like you or anyone else outside the club, but what I do know is that there are more then enough players off contract and some not that can be moved on, that will make more then enough space in the cap to sign the players I have suggested.

It all depends on whether the club wants these players and if they can attract them. But making the space isn't the issue with our club at the moment. Intent, desire and then the all important ability of the people we have making the decisions here at the club will determine what type of rebuild and recruitment happens in the next 9 months or so.

My personal feelings are that we won't make the tough and wise decisions to be a real force next year. I don't have any confidence in the people running the football department at present. Results have proven they don't know what the hell they are doing no matter what or how many excuses people like you Pou try to flog off.

You claim I don't understand the implications of what I am suggesting. Well I do. I just don't believe your excuses are the right answers. Listing your fictitious figures as some kind of bees in knees to understanding our roster cap issues is laughable. Again the hypocrisy in what you say now is mammoth after all your bleating over the years about how none of us can ever knowing anything from the outside looking in. But what I do know is we can make heaps of space at the moment with our roster. We are in a very enviable situation as far as that goes. The real question is, are the people in charge the right people to get the best possible recruits available on the open market.

Look, one of the best abilities of someone like Brian Smith when he was here, was his ability to identify where the short comings in the roster were and address them very quickly. He always brought in players of quality or cheapies with value and the team was a contender very quickly. I say this not as a fan of Brian Smith by a long shot, but that was one of his strengths. I only bring him up because he is an example of someone that is competent in recruiting quality very quickly. It can be done. But it is an art and I don't think BA has it.

Like I have said, we are in an enviable position right now because a. we have or can make the space and b. the players that we are short on are right now available. Lets just see what the people in charge are made of. But I must say, I don't have confidence.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I wouldn't have a clue, just like you or anyone else outside the club, but what I do know is that there are more then enough players off contract and some not that can be moved on, that will make more then enough space in the cap to sign the players I have suggested.

If you don't know how much they're on how do you know that giving them the arse will make enough space for the players you want us to buy? Simple logic says that if these incoming players are better than the ones being let go that they will cost more, and therefore they will use up more of the cap than the guys they are replacing.

It all depends on whether the club wants these players and if they can attract them. But making the space isn't the issue with our club at the moment. Intent, desire and then the all important ability of the people we have making the decisions here at the club will determine what type of rebuild and recruitment happens in the next 9 months or so.

My personal feelings are that we won't make the tough and wise decisions to be a real force next year. I don't have any confidence in the people running the football department at present. Results have proven they don't know what the hell they are doing no matter what or how many excuses people like you Pou try to flog off.

You claim I don't understand the implications of what I am suggesting. Well I do. I just don't believe your excuses are the right answers. Listing your fictitious figures as some kind of bees in knees to understanding our roster cap issues is laughable. Again the hypocrisy in what you say now is mammoth after all your bleating over the years about how none of us can ever knowing anything from the outside looking in. But what I do know is we can make heaps of space at the moment with our roster. We are in a very enviable situation as far as that goes. The real question is, are the people in charge the right people to get the best possible recruits available on the open market.

Look, one of the best abilities of someone like Brian Smith when he was here, was his ability to identify where the short comings in the roster were and address them very quickly. He always brought in players of quality or cheapies with value and the team was a contender very quickly. I say this not as a fan of Brian Smith by a long shot, but that was one of his strengths. I only bring him up because he is an example of someone that is competent in recruiting quality very quickly. It can be done. But it is an art and I don't think BA has it.

Like I have said, we are in an enviable position right now because a. we have or can make the space and b. the players that we are short on are right now available. Lets just see what the people in charge are made of. But I must say, I don't have confidence.

If you think we can make the space required why don't you list our current top 17 salaries (in your opinion) and see which ones are off contract. You don't even need to come up with a figure. Just the 17 highest paid players in the club. Replace one of them with Junior Paulo and see how much cap would be left over.

 

[TheRam]

Well Hayne was one season signing when really who else could we have spent the money on, Scott & Jennings have both been good up to this season (and this season isn't finished yet), Moeroa still has time on his side, his main problem is injury, while Evans has only been here for a pissy amount of time.
Not being happy with the signings at the time is acceptable. Shitbagging them this season, after likely being happy with their performances in previous seasons* (Hayne & Evans excluded) is not, especially because only one of them hasn't been injured and it's not like you can't lump other more fan favourable players in with shithouse performances e.g. Gutho, Brown, Mannah.
On top of which, Scott is likely done, for Hayne to get anywhere near his current contract he'll have to put in a heck of a back end to the season and Jennings only has one more year left to run, it'll be on overs yes but I can't see him playing horrendously

*Edit - I'll put in the proviso that Ram has mostly been vehemently opposed to whatever Moeroa does

I was opposed to the Scott signing at the time, because I thought he was at the injury prone side of his career and the contract was too long. When I was half right. He has been a 50/50 signing. Some good performances and some shit. Not the worst signing and now he is gone so who gives a shit. Jennings was a great signing, although on the higher side money wise and he is still good value. The thing with him and most backs is they tend to be crap until you get your forwards and halves right.

Tepai is a shit attacking backrower and I have not seen anything to change my mind on that. He is a good solid defender though. But I suspect that we are paying him good offensive and defensive coin, because the coaching staff like most of you clowns thought that he was better then he has turned out to be.

His next contract should reflect, hopefully, his shortcomings in attack. Hayne was a gamble worth taking and the jury is still out on that. Evens is not worth the $400k odd that has been quoted by the press. He was worth whatever the Roosters were willing to pay him, therefore they let him go. He's a solid player at best when fit. The problem with him, he is hard to keep fit whether injured or not and he is a stupid player.

 

[Stevie]

I think you need to learn the definition of negative

I was HIV negative once.

But that was a long time ago sadly.