Rumours and Stuff

[Bazal]

I think MJC also said that Lane won't be on backup money. In fact likely top 17

No, he said there's no reason he suddenly won't be in our top 17 based on the players already here. He also said that a few top 17 spots aren't decided until the pre-season. Which doesn't mean that he is or isn't on top 17 money and I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth either way.

He has far better sources than any of us but I believe, based on a chat with a former poster, Lane was offered fringe first grader money (ie top 21 money but not automatically in the top 17 paid players at the club, although he may be if we don't sign/re-sign players on more) where Matagi and Vave are absolutely on "top 17" money.

In fact, that's why I believe we potentially have [perhaps 20-odd players on "top 17" money and why I'm so adamant that we need to rebalance the cap somewhat.

 

[Noise]

In fact, that's why I believe we potentially have [perhaps 20-odd players on "top 17" money and why I'm so adamant that we need to rebalance the cap somewhat.

Yep.

 

[84 Baby]

based on a chat with a former poster,

ME, Boxy or parrachilean?

 

[Incorrect]

I know we all have different opinions on where the squad is at the moment and whether we can turn it around during an off-season.

If my opinion we aren’t that far away, we have played all the current top 8 sides except roosters and storm (sharks twice, broncos, Penrith twice, dragons, warriors) and apart from 40 mins against Souths, we were still in each game during the last 10. With some luck (and less injuries) we could have won any of those games, some off the games we scored the same tries as the opposition.

I was thinking similar watching the game last Thursday night. While the top 8 is more or less settled, none of the teams in there look out and out specials to win the whole thing. Some of them have looked good for weeks here and there but none have looked dominant week in week out like your Storm or Roosters or Bunnies in the last 5 years or so... Last week, we were 8 minutes away from a dominant win over the 1st placed team in the comp playing their strongest line up bar Frizell... The outing before that were showing the Rabbits up before our right side defence inexplicably forgot how to number up and let in 5 tries...

While we have been pretty ordinary in attack all year and largely off the pace, up the other end of the ladder, there's plenty of question marks over some of those teams that will be playing finals footy. Good luck to them, it shows the importantce of banking those competition points when you can...

 

[Bazal]

ME, Boxy or parrachilean?

Fanbase, tbh

 

[El Diablo]

Who was the bright spark that decided that the AFL guy could condition league players better then the cougar

he was prolly cheap so Max and Bernie got him

 

[emjaycee]

I think MJC also said that Lane won't be on backup money. In fact likely top 17

My info on Paulo was that we were planning to offer him no more than $640k per annum. That may well have changed because my source doesn't sign the contracts, but to think we upped it to $750k ($3m over 4 years) is a bit beyond where I heard we valued him.

In regards to Lane, Bazal is pretty accurate in what I said and meant.

 

[Noise]

My info on Paulo was that we were planning to offer him no more than $640k per annum. That may well have changed because my source doesn't sign the contracts, but to think we upped it to $750k ($3m over 4 years) is a bit beyond where I heard we valued him.

In regards to Lane, Bazal is pretty accurate in what I said and meant.

I wasn't talking about the Paulo figures, think that must have been someone else. If someone is likely to be top 17, I fail to see how they are on back up money. If you looked at our current top 17 from round 1 before heaps of injuries (other than Gutho) we had Edwards miss out. So that is 19 players (at least) that are on top money. If Lane is likely top 17 and primarily been top 17 at his current club, why would he accept backup money with the wooden spoon team?

 

[hindy111]

he was prolly cheap so Max and Bernie got him

If there looking for cheap you better be carefull

 

[hindy111]

Does he play on the right or left or middle....LANE?

 

[Joshuatheeel]

While we have been pretty ordinary in attack all year and largely off the pace, up the other end of the ladder, there's plenty of question marks over some of those teams that will be playing finals footy. Good luck to them, it shows the importantce of banking those competition points when you can...

Yeah our attack hasn’t been great, but how many games have we had all gutho (fullback), Hayne (our best attacking back), Norman / Moses , Brown (best middle attacking player) and Pritchard all
play together? Injuries have killed the combination.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

I wasn't talking about the Paulo figures, think that must have been someone else. If someone is likely to be top 17, I fail to see how they are on back up money. If you looked at our current top 17 from round 1 before heaps of injuries (other than Gutho) we had Edwards miss out. So that is 19 players (at least) that are on top money. If Lane is likely top 17 and primarily been top 17 at his current club, why would he accept backup money with the wooden spoon team?

Brown was a regular nrl starter with Souths and accepted less then $200k ($160k was reported) to sign with us.

So maybe we got a similar deal for Lane.

 

[emjaycee]

I wasn't talking about the Paulo figures, think that must have been someone else. If someone is likely to be top 17, I fail to see how they are on back up money. If you looked at our current top 17 from round 1 before heaps of injuries (other than Gutho) we had Edwards miss out. So that is 19 players (at least) that are on top money. If Lane is likely top 17 and primarily been top 17 at his current club, why would he accept backup money with the wooden spoon team?

I think the issue is that there isn't a black line (or even a grey one) between top 17 and say, top 23 or 24. Everyone in the top 24 should be capable of playing quality first grade football. In a tough contact sport there will always be injuries and as a coach, you need to be able to select 17 players each week with confidence. Players 25-30 are your fringe players - the players you hope you don't need for more than a week at a time but have enough ability to fill in, ideally in non-critical positions. These are where you stash 2 or 3 youngsters that you might give an opportunity to and 2 or 3 journeymen who will do a job if called upon.

I see Lane in the top 23 or 24 players in our squad for 2019, keeping in mind there are 8 or 9 forwards in the top 17 each week so you need 12 or 13 not counting your hookers in your top 24 - capable of playing quality football. Whether any one of these is in your top 17 each week depends on lots of factors such as injuries, form, overall squad makeup, etc.

I reckon our top 13 forwards (excluding hooker) for next year could easily be:
Ma'u
Moeroa
Taka
Alvaro
Brown
Evans
Mannah
Paulo
TBC (Niukore)
TBC (Lane)
TBC (Williams)
TBC (Musgrove)
TBC (???)

Paulo and the TBC's replace Matagi, Vave, Scott, Terepo, Edwards and Gower.

2 or 3 fringe forwards round out your squad of 30 (16 forwards + 2 hookers + 12 backs) and ours would likely be Stone and hopefully Kaufusi for next year with one more signing to come.

 

[Noise]

I think the issue is that there isn't a black line (or even a grey one) between top 17 and say, top 23 or 24. Everyone in the top 24 should be capable of playing quality first grade football. In a tough contact sport there will always be injuries and as a coach, you need to be able to select 17 players each week with confidence. Players 25-30 are your fringe players - the players you hope you don't need for more than a week at a time but have enough ability to fill in, ideally in non-critical positions. These are where you stash 2 or 3 youngsters that you might give an opportunity to and 2 or 3 journeymen who will do a job if called upon.

I see Lane in the top 23 or 24 players in our squad for 2019, keeping in mind there are 8 or 9 forwards in the top 17 each week so you need 12 or 13 not counting your hookers in your top 24 - capable of playing quality football. Whether any one of these is in your top 17 each week depends on lots of factors such as injuries, form, overall squad makeup, etc.

I reckon our top 13 forwards (excluding hooker) for next year could easily be:
Ma'u
Moeroa
Taka
Alvaro
Brown
Evans
Mannah
Paulo
TBC (Niukore)
TBC (Lane)
TBC (Williams)
TBC (Musgrove)
TBC (???)

Paulo and the TBC's replace Matagi, Vave, Scott, Terepo, Edwards and Gower.

2 or 3 fringe forwards round out your squad of 30 (16 forwards + 2 hookers + 12 backs) and ours would likely be Stone and hopefully Kaufusi for next year.

If we do in fact have a top 23/24 players rather than a distinct top 17 then we probably have too many fringe first graders on too much money.

 

[El Diablo]

Does he play on the right or left or middle....LANE?

you want him play with your middle lane

 

[emjaycee]

If we do in fact have a top 23/24 players rather than a distinct top 17 then we probably have too many fringe first graders on too much money.

Indeed - although if we were under the cap at the start of the year, we probably just have too many fringe first graders in our squad of 30, regardless of the money they are/were getting paid.
If you consider a fringe player to be someone who is a youngster coming through or a journeymen who is near the end of their career then WIlliams, Niukore, Gower and Vave would have been our fringe forwards this year, Unfortunately losing Scott, Edwards and Evans for differing reasons meant these players needed to play more games then ideal. Add the loss of form of Matagi (compared to last year) and the squad overall and we were dipping into a nearly empty barrel from early on.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Now you're getting it!

I was always getting it. I'm defending the roster, not the coach. IMO if the coach can't fix whatever is wrong then he's gone at the end of his contract.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I was thinking similar watching the game last Thursday night. While the top 8 is more or less settled, none of the teams in there look out and out specials to win the whole thing. Some of them have looked good for weeks here and there but none have looked dominant week in week out like your Storm or Roosters or Bunnies in the last 5 years or so... Last week, we were 8 minutes away from a dominant win over the 1st placed team in the comp playing their strongest line up bar Frizell... The outing before that were showing the Rabbits up before our right side defence inexplicably forgot how to number up and let in 5 tries...

While we have been pretty ordinary in attack all year and largely off the pace, up the other end of the ladder, there's plenty of question marks over some of those teams that will be playing finals footy. Good luck to them, it shows the importantce of banking those competition points when you can...

Yep. The top teams this year aren't explicitly better, they're just more consistent. Apart from the Storm it was the same last year.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I wasn't talking about the Paulo figures, think that must have been someone else. If someone is likely to be top 17, I fail to see how they are on back up money. If you looked at our current top 17 from round 1 before heaps of injuries (other than Gutho) we had Edwards miss out. So that is 19 players (at least) that are on top money. If Lane is likely top 17 and primarily been top 17 at his current club, why would he accept backup money with the wooden spoon team?

I reckon there's a salary range that is somewhere between top 17 money and backup money. Obviously some of these might be in the top 17 paid players in the squad (in fact some of them would have to be). I suspect that range is somewhere between $150k and $250k.

Assuming a squad full of players being paid exactly what they're worth is obviously not a perfect description of reality - every squad will have some guys overpaid and others underpaid, with the better 'managed' clubs having more players on unders and clubs like us with more on overs, but a model of salary distribution only needs to deal with generalities. So the breakdown of a top 30 might look like this:

Eleven genuine top 17 players ($6M)

Ten fringe first graders ($2M)

Nine backups ($1M)

Anyway, Lane could be a fringe first grader on $150k (or less) at Manly, with the opportunity to be a fringe first grader for us on $200k or more.

 

[TheRam]

Google it and you will see articles at 2.4 then 2.8 then 3mill.....Which is correct?
Id split it and say around 2.75

Probably right Hindy, but I have no idea what the real figure is.