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Rumours and Stuff

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,813
Well then why are we even considering getting rid of the one we have contracted?

We’ve put up with his antics so far and had some success. What’s another year?
I said it before it really depends on club's view of if/how Norman will perform with a pretty clear assumption the club won't look to re-sign him. He'd be playing for himself
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
18,186
Well if we were going to frontload players with Norman's money it'd be players coming off contract for next year including Alvaro, Gunco, Mau, Tepai, Mannah, Moses and anyone we sign for 1 year. Depending on NRL allowance and player acceptance, they don't even have to be top 17 players to be off assistance to overall cap i.e. you could give Mannah handout next season and then have him on books for min wage for couple of years after that. The problem is as you say suitable replacement for Norman

Alvaro is probably the only one of that lot that I'd be prepared to frontload and extend.
 

Happy MEel

First Grade
Messages
9,860
Well if we were going to frontload players with Norman's money it'd be players coming off contract for next year including Alvaro, Gunco, Mau, Tepai, Mannah, Moses and anyone we sign for 1 year. Depending on NRL allowance and player acceptance, they don't even have to be top 17 players to be off assistance to overall cap i.e. you could give Mannah handout next season and then have him on books for min wage for couple of years after that. The problem is as you say suitable replacement for Norman
From the list you mentioned, the only player I’d consider frontloading at this stage is Alvaro, possibly Gutho as well.
 

Happy MEel

First Grade
Messages
9,860
I said it before it really depends on club's view of if/how Norman will perform with a pretty clear assumption the club won't look to re-sign him. He'd be playing for himself
A new contract/employer is a pretty large incentive to perform.
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,184
Even if we got Taupau and were stuck with a spine of Gutho/French, Moses, Lamb and Pritchard/Mahoney we will still be rubbish.

Why? French/Gutho/Pritchard/Moses all played a significant part of getting us to the 2017 top 4 (and all are young enough to have improvement in them) and we wouId now have a better forward pack then 2017 with some genuine quality big middle forwards in Paulo / Taupau and the best metres maker in the comp in Ferguson (obviously we have no idea what our 2019 is going to be).

You don’t think our spine wouId look a lot better playing behind Paulo / Taupau/ Ferguson and the metres they make?
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
18,186
Why? French/Gutho/Pritchard/Moses all played a significant part of getting us to the 2017 top 4 (and all are young enough to have improvement in them) and we wouId now have a better forward pack then 2017 with some genuine quality big middle forwards in Paulo / Taupau and the best metres maker in the comp in Ferguson (obviously we have no idea what our 2019 is going to be).

You don’t think our spine wouId look a lot better playing behind Paulo / Taupau/ Ferguson and the metes they make?

I think Gutho/French may look a bit better and possibly Moses - but I don't really rate him at all. Brock Lamb and Kaysa have an extremely limited skill set and would be average no matter who we sign because they just aren't very good footballers. Lamb in particular would be such a huge step backwards that I am still in disbelief that the rumour is out there.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,813
Alvaro is probably the only one of that lot that I'd be prepared to frontload and extend.
From the list you mentioned, the only player I’d consider frontloading at this stage is Alvaro, possibly Gutho as well.
If NRL & player are going to accept the contract terms and the money is otherwise dead money then in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter who gets the money as it lowers the cap hit across the board. Personal level view becomes a factor in that we'd probably want to give it to a player we may want beyond that contract and the extra payment is further goodwill to the parties... but is that really even going to be a factor x years later?
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
18,186
If NRL & player are going to accept the contract terms and the money is otherwise dead money then in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter who gets the money as it lowers the cap hit across the board. Personal level view becomes a factor in that we'd probably want to give it to a player we may want beyond that contract and the extra payment is further goodwill to the parties... but is that really even going to be a factor x years later?

It's not the front loading as such but more that I don't think the others are worth extending (which you need to do to front load).
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,813
A new contract/employer is a pretty large incentive to perform.
It is, but will his performance goal match our performance need? We're lucky that as a half, his value stems a lot from teamwork, but what if he feels the need to constantly overplay Moses then?
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,184
I think Gutho/French may look a bit better and possibly Moses - but I don't really rate him at all. Brock Lamb and Kaysa have an extremely limited skill set and would be average no matter who we sign because they just aren't very good footballers. Lamb in particular would be such a huge step backwards that I am still in disbelief that the rumour is out there.

fair enough, I doubt we will go into next year with only Pritchard who isn’t even contracted yet and Maloney.

On Lamb he is only 21, so he could improve significantly.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,813
It's not the front loading as such but more that I don't think the others are worth extending (which you need to do to front load).
Still need 30 players in the squad and you need both NRL & player acceptance. Alvaro would obviously accept the extra money upfront, but is he going to accept the implied lesser salary going forward?We're never going to know, but I would want to give it to the player/s with the best dollar for dollar ratio to the reduction in future contracts, maybe factoring in some goodwill as well, they don't even need to be top 17 players, although obviously that is where the most gains can be acquired
 

Glenneel

Bench
Messages
3,810
So we can’t look at recruiting players for several positions at the same time? It’s not like shopping for the weekly groceries when you look at one item at a time.
Yes we can and should be. But the cap is finite and BA seems to be recruiting for every position except where our need is greatest.
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
18,186
Still need 30 players in the squad and you need both NRL & player acceptance. Alvaro would obviously accept the extra money upfront, but is he going to accept the implied lesser salary going forward?We're never going to know, but I would want to give it to the player/s with the best dollar for dollar ratio to the reduction in future contracts, maybe factoring in some goodwill as well, they don't even need to be top 17 players, although obviously that is where the most gains can be acquired

100% agree on whether the player would agree to front load. I know we often talk about front loading a contract as if it is easy to do but if I'm a player (or any employee) I generally want to increase my earnings each year - even if I know I am getting paid more than I should in the first year. And like you said for it to work best you want to do it with a top 17 player. A top 17 player in their 20s will generally believe they are going to improve so in their mind probably think they deserve to be paid more each year of their contract.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,813
100% agree on whether the player would agree to front load. I know we often talk about front loading a contract as if it is easy to do but if I'm a player (or any employee) I generally want to increase my earnings each year - even if I know I am getting paid more than I should in the first year. And like you said for it to work best you want to do it with a top 17 player. A top 17 player in their 20s will generally believe they are going to improve so in their mind probably think they deserve to be paid more each year of their contract.
It may even cause more hassles than it's worth. It's like when you're looking for a bank loan, you want to test how much each bank is willing to give you, but each pre-approval is a hit to your credit rating. Similarly the club wants to know who they can pay the best value for, but each inquiry chips away at their bargaining power. Goodwill may not provide much value, but badwill can f**k you in the bunghole hard
 

Soren Lorenson

First Grade
Messages
7,590
Yes we can and should be. But the cap is finite and BA seems to be recruiting for every position except where our need is greatest.
No he doesn't. We needed a good winger to give us some more go forward. He recruited Fergo, who is CURRENTLY leading the WHOLE f**kEN COMP in metres gained. Then we also need a more skillful attacking front rower to complement our workhorses and so we recruited Jnr. We appear to be looking a a promising young FRower from Souths who may or may not turn out well but won't be expensive. You really can't fault that.
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,184
3CCA4774-1FE8-4CC5-BB59-46BCA90889E0.jpeg Obviously stats don’t show the whole story but stats wise Lamb wasn’t that terrible last year in his first full year of NRL as a 20 year old.

Actually he was fairly decent as a 20 year compared to other halves in 2018.

Stats show a good all around game, can score / can set up tries, likes to run, ok defensively and has a good kick.

And it was in a wooden spoon side.
 
Last edited:

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,613
Actually hope the rumour is just that. Our front row badly needs fixing first. If he fails as a half he might make a decent dummy half.
Our front row is fine FFS! Especially now we have Paulo. Our biggest problems have been go forward out of the backfield, fixed with Ferguson, and our halves aren’t playing well together. That will be fixed by getting rid of one and bringing in a second who knows his place.

You and all the others who whinged about our forwards for two years were wrong for two years. If a problem can be ‘papered over for two years it’s not a problem FFS! We only lost a winger. The go forward he provided (from our half) is different from that provided by a forward (in their half).

Plus Moses’ lack of LBAs and TAs this year has little to do with Radradra since they played on opposite sides of the field.
 

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