Rumours and Stuff

[hindy111]

I see what you mean. No small players have ever excelled at NRL level. I don't know why they even try.

So in 2019 we will add Tepai ,Kaysa and Bevan on the failed juniors list........

 

[hindy111]

Don't think anyone that saw Dargan actually play in the juniors ever thought he would be much more than average at best. Davis and Bevan were like a lot of juniors. Never had the mental side strong enough to make the next step on a consistent basis, again you may know more than the rest of us, but you do need to attend junior games live to actually see How they would develop.

Then again, I thought Tim Smith would be the half back at the club for 10 years, mental demons aside, he was the best natural 7 from Sterlo to Moses.

I am not an expert. I just do not understand why we arent producing as much talent as in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Very excited about DBags and Mahoney

 

[Soren Lorenson]

So in 2019 we will add Tepai ,Kaysa and Bevan on the failed juniors list........

What do you class as a successful junior? Test player, SOO, solid career without being elite?? 100 FG games? What's the criteria here?

 

[Delboy]

I am not an expert. I just do not understand why we arent producing as much talent as in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Very excited about DBags and Mahoney

Think Hagan as a coach that legged it to Newie on the F3 at every opportunity and took little interest in juniors, DA as someone who took the proverbial foot off the ball and hardly looked outside the top 25, Sticky had no real interest and passed the baton to SK who has proved to be out of his depth.

The whole jumior development started again at U14 level when BA became coach, and Fieldsy became junior development and recruitment manager. It's only really been in train for 5/6 years from that start up. After Brian Smith there was a huge lack of junior input and interest from the succeeding coaches until BA.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The difference today is the importance of junior recruitment. Brian Smith was miles ahead of nearly everybody 20 years ago. Nowadays every club knows there is an advantage there. The clubs best placed to exploit this are the ones with the most resources.

These clubs watch the Harold Matts comp and approach the best players when they get close to 18. "Don't re-sign with Parra/Newcastle/Canberra too quickly. If we like you we'll pay double whatever they're offering."

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Bullshit
Dargan was the next big thing and Davis was hyped up also. I even recall people rating Bevan higher then Latrell on here. Based on his size he should of be thrown out of the system years ago.

Dargan didn't play reserve grade until the year he turned 20 and he was no better than solid. Drown was carving up reserve grade last year at 18.

 

[84 Baby]

What do you class as a successful junior? Test player, SOO, solid career without being elite?? 100 FG games? What's the criteria here?

We should be producing at least 2-3 once in a generation players every 2 years

 

[Bazal]

Well did we develop Matterson into an NRL player?
We released hin from a 3 or 4 yr contract after he fell to Ron Massey cup. Roosters polished him into an NRL player.

Did they really deserve the credit though?

Or was it a result of Matterson himself finally realizing that Parra were right all along, he wasn't a five eighths ringpiece, and allowing Robinson to play him and develop him in the right position?

Remember the reason he found himself in Ron Massey Cup in the first place was because he refused to go along with the club's opinion of his best position...

 

[84 Baby]

Did they really deserve the credit though?

Or was it a result of Matterson himself finally realizing that Parra were right all along, he wasn't a five eighths ringpiece, and allowing Robinson to play him and develop him in the right position?

Remember the reason he found himself in Ron Massey Cup in the first place was because he refused to go along with the club's opinion of his best position...

If I were coach and he kept on saying he’s an out and out 5/8th then I too would say “well you’re our 3rd best 5/8th, so you can play 5/8th in 3rd grade”

 

[TheRam]

Offered to us? The rumour was our own recruitment staff identified him and got him to agree to sign. He wasn’t “offered” to us, our recruitment staff did their job but management balked at his asking price. All Fifita’s improvement does is justify the recruitment team’s judgment and so management may give them more leeway next time. But also refusing to overpay largely non-contributing “once in a generation” youngsters isn’t a bad thing

Ok sorry I may have used the wrong term. We identified him as you say, and from what I understand, it wasn't the amount he wanted, but he wanted some of it paid up front and like you and I have stated our useless prior management said no. But, without knowing all the details, he is the sort of player that you go hard on management to understand exactly what they are passing up on.

Do you think the Roosters didn't overpay for L Mitchell or many of their other recruitments over the years? If you want the best generally you need to pay for it. As for our recruitment team doing a good job, I want to agree, but as Hindy has pointed out, for a club like Parra we have produed very little top shelf cattle over the last 15 or so years that has played for us coming through.

We have bought a few to the club as young kids which is great, like Mahoney and D. Brown, but what great players from within our vast nursery have we brought into first grade lately, especially outside backs or forwards? Paulo and then the cupboard is fairly bare. What is going on? The talent has to be there, but somehow it isn't coming through.

 

[84 Baby]

Ok sorry I may have used the wrong term. We identified him as you say, and from what I understand, it wasn't the amount he wanted, but he wanted some of it paid up front and like you and I have stated our useless prior management said no. But, without knowing all the details, he is the sort of player that you go hard on management to understand exactly what they are passing up on.

Do you think the Roosters didn't overpay for L Mitchell or many of their other recruitments over the years? If you want the best generally you need to pay for it. As for our recruitment team doing a good job, I want to agree, but as Hindy has pointed out, for a club like Parra we have produed very little top shelf cattle over the last 15 or so years that has played for us coming through.

We have bought a few to the club as young kids which is great, like Mahoney and D. Brown, but what great players from within our vast nursery have we brought into first grade lately, especially outside backs or forwards? Paulo and then the cupboard is fairly bare. What is going on? The talent has to be there, but somehow it isn't coming through.

Well that management is no longer at club. But also my larger point was does it matter if we signed Fifita back then. Up until this year he hasn’t really contributed much to Boncos. He was good this year and obviously can be elite but I do think his total contribution was still a bit overstated. Assuming he lifts to destined complete elite status, next season will be the only season anyone has him for “unders” (unless Boncos give him extra on extension). So for us, Brisbane or anyone who signed him, or any other superstar youngster, thought has to be put to whether he’s worth that money/risk for one slightly unders season and one big unders season. Every dollar you pay him to develop is one you’re hoping to bank at the end of his contract. Then comes the end of his contract and every other f**ken club and news outlet says this kid “could” get a million dollars a year.
Maybe MAYBE the incumbent club could get him a bit cheaper, but the closer he gets to free agency, the less cheaper that is likely. But even then if we were the “incumbent” club, in these circumstances, Brisbane would have some claim to being his home club, further eroding his cheapness. On the flip side, now his likely is elitehood is more certain, as is his exorbitant salary, we are in practically the same position as we would have otherwise been with the benefit of not having to spend any money to develop him. Perhaps we picked up someone cheaper to develop in the interim (Mahoney/Drown).
We’ve experienced all this before with Hayne

 

[AnonymousLurker]

the lack of juniors developed in the last decade or so has more to do with both the culture and coaches we had rather than junior systems.

mo junior was going to excel in that environment with the team and front office
Now that we seem to have our shit together I would ex-ect better results

Mahoney and drown wouldn’t have lasted the year if they debuted 5-7 years ago

 

[hindy111]

What do you class as a successful junior? Test player, SOO, solid career without being elite?? 100 FG games? What's the criteria here?

In the origin mix for 5 years even if doesn't make it. N.Brown,Gutherson level.

 

[Noise]

Great news....We won't be signing plodder Chris Lawrence!
https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2019/10/21/wests-tigers-re-sign-chris-lawrence/

 

[hineyrulz]

Great news....We won't be signing plodder Chris Lawrence!
https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2019/10/21/wests-tigers-re-sign-chris-lawrence/

Praise the Lord!!!

 

[Obscene Assassin]

(Or he could struggle mentally with the step up like I suggested previously was our junior problem. Happy to be proven wrong but.)

Probably why we played him in reserve grade basically all year proving himself against players with multiple pre-seasons, rather than playing him in 20s. Wonder where he would've been if he wasn't illegally tackled (and injured) in the final trial match?

 

[Gronk]

Lukey has been shafted by the Titans and shifted to an office job.

Knights have signed Jamal Fogarty.

 

[TheRam]

Well that management is no longer at club. But also my larger point was does it matter if we signed Fifita back then. Up until this year he hasn’t really contributed much to Boncos. He was good this year and obviously can be elite but I do think his total contribution was still a bit overstated. Assuming he lifts to destined complete elite status, next season will be the only season anyone has him for “unders” (unless Boncos give him extra on extension). So for us, Brisbane or anyone who signed him, or any other superstar youngster, thought has to be put to whether he’s worth that money/risk for one slightly unders season and one big unders season. Every dollar you pay him to develop is one you’re hoping to bank at the end of his contract. Then comes the end of his contract and every other f**ken club and news outlet says this kid “could” get a million dollars a year.
Maybe MAYBE the incumbent club could get him a bit cheaper, but the closer he gets to free agency, the less cheaper that is likely. But even then if we were the “incumbent” club, in these circumstances, Brisbane would have some claim to being his home club, further eroding his cheapness. On the flip side, now his likely is elitehood is more certain, as is his exorbitant salary, we are in practically the same position as we would have otherwise been with the benefit of not having to spend any money to develop him. Perhaps we picked up someone cheaper to develop in the interim (Mahoney/Drown).
We’ve experienced all this before with Hayne

Of course it matters who first signs a top quality player. Everyone knows and so do you unless you're an idiot, that it is harder for a player to leave his junior club then it is any other. The raiding club needs to really offer big to entice a player that is happy, playing well, at a strong club and paid well to leave.

The rest of your rant with no paragraphs is even more nonsense that I couldn't be bothered to respond to cos it seems as though you wrote it while drunk, other then to say that we are a development club and the point of being a development club is to develop the BEST juniors we can get our hands on and bring them through to 1st grade and by doing so instilling bonds and loyalty withing the juniors so as to be able to hold on to the best ones against raids by the powerful clubs that we compete against.

 

[Glenneel]

Our junior problem has been obvious for decades. We consistently dominate younger levels (SG/HM) because we have great physical specimens with superb playing skill, each individually capable of being rep stars. The problem is we have at least double digits of them in each squad. So when Moderate-sized Jimmy is having a wowser, Big Jimmy knows he can phone it in, and vice versa.
While Jimmy Shit Team from another shit team, learns that unless he performs at his best every week then his team of useless kents are going to get thrashed. Those attitudes will stick for awhile as each player progresses to NRL.
Although we also can’t just say let’s sign a couple of good youngsters and surround them with turds

Couldn't quite understand your post but yes we dominate HM/SGB but fall away badly thereafter. There is some huge disconnect from JF upwards. How is it that Bennett can get an average player and turn him into a decent player? Even a player who has been with multiple clubs and failed becomes much better in the Storm system. A system BA should know about as was Bennett's assistant but has never been implemented or if it has it has failed.

 

[Glenneel]

Most Sydney sides wont make finals each year.
We have done well 2/3 yrs. They have done well 4/5 yrs.
Both have been better then a lot of teams in the last 3 or 4 years.
I'd say we had a some chance of taking the title in 2017 while they never once had a side capable.
But what is your point? I reckon we got heaps lucky in 2017 and I pointed it out at the time with Semi,Manu and KE. We had 3 guys worth a lot more then what where paid. Semi playing like a 900k player and KE also performing like a 600k forward.

The beauty of juniors coming in constantly is you generaly get a few good value years. And if keep them is for a little bit less. Plus if they do leave it usualy weakened other teams salary cap as they have to pay overs to get them.
By end of 2021 Mahoney and DBrown wont be cheap.And Moses,Rcg,Jnr and Gutherson will be taking quite a bit of cash. I am unsure how long our window is. If we can keep this spine together we could be in a long window. But our best shot may be in 2021

Can you really say Mahoney and D Brown are our juniors? Both are recent imports, Mahoney from Dogs and DB from NZ. Maybe that's the secret, allow other clubs to develop them during their informative years and take them once polished. That way we can't ruin them.