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Rumours and Stuff

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,792
I think every club knows what they are gonna get with Cartwright so I suspect they weren’t to dissimilar to our offer in which case there probably wasn’t a whole lot of incentive to leave.
Just assuming we were willing to lowball Papali’i but highball Cartwright is just plain stupid.
 

Soren Lorenson

First Grade
Messages
7,585
Well it was reported yes I know reported that the saints were very interested in him, there was a few clubs sniffing around. Yes I know the media are only a good source when it suits Pou and Gronk………
So, maybe no other offers eventuated. Ftr, I can only find one article from zero tackle that suggested dragons were keeping an eye on how our negotiations went with him. Dated 9 June 2021. Same article quoted byrce as saying how much he wanted to stay.
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,182
So Carty shunned those offers elsewhere to stay here on less??? Maybe the 2 years swayed him?? Or playing under Bea a coach who really believes in him???
The only club rumoured to be interested was Dragons we obviously have no idea what the offer was (or what our offer was).

But considering all crap that has gone on in his careers/partner/personal matters etc etc, it may as simple as he is happy at the eels, close to his family / kids (his social media indicates his kids are pretty important part of his life) and didn’t want to travel to the Illawarra for training / be away from his family. He may be in his “happy place”….

If any player has been on the mental health roller coaster of the NRL, it’s Carty! He probably understands it’s not always about money

anyhow we have no idea really!
 

lucablight

First Grade
Messages
6,531
I think every club knows what they are gonna get with Cartwright so I suspect they weren’t to dissimilar to our offer in which case there probably wasn’t a whole lot of incentive to leave.
Just assuming we were willing to lowball Papali’i but highball Cartwright is just plain stupid.
I think the recruitment staff have done a pretty good job at putting together a competitive squad but any organisation that is willing to offer Isaako an NRL contract is certainly not infallible.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,719
Well it was reported yes I know reported that the saints were very interested in him, there was a few clubs sniffing around. Yes I know the media are only a good source when it suits Pou and Gronk………
Likewise when Jakey was shopped to Storm. Amirite ? 😜
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,792
I think the recruitment staff have done a pretty good job at putting together a competitive squad but any organisation that is willing to offer Isaako an NRL contract is certainly not infallible.
I said no to Isucko when it first was reported, but I’d be disappointed that given the outside back injury crisis we had, if we weren’t exploring short term solutions to cover it.

I reckon he & Marsters were this season only considerations that for whatever reason probably didn’t progress beyond agent contact (heck given our injury crisis and Isaako already being in contract negotiations, Isaako should be disappointed if his agent hadn’t approached us, not the other way around).

Now we’ve got players back, those type signings have likely been completely scrapped.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
I hope he hasn’t been taking unders from clubs based on hope.

Mate as you well know some players will sign for the club they are at for what they feel is a reasonable offer made by the club without going to market, due to the love of the club and or the players/mates they are with, even if it is probably under what their highest market value is.

Happens all the time, look at Taylan May just yesterday. Do you think that the Panthers signed him because they made the highest offer?

Simply put there are many different reasons a player will sign for less, mates, strong rosters, coaches, persuasive quality hierarchy and even loyalty are just some.

We have a captain that didn't care for any of that and twice publicly allow his manager to finger us in public so he could extract the highest offer. He showed the rest of the squad how it is done and damn the torpedos. Also doesn't help when you have a Football Manager who notoriously works at a snails pace and allows players to go to the period of their contract that allows them to go to market.

Now all our players are used to waiting it out and seeing what is on offer. It has become a thing, a habit that they are all more or less doing now. The tone has been set. It will take leadership and a mind set change to reverse this now where players start to feel that as long as the offer is good for who they are, then they take it as long as they can all stay together and be in a strong and successful club. This in turn will create a fertile environment that will slowly seep through the club and build some sort of loyalty again. Especially for the players that come through our junior development systems.

That's the whole point of being a development club right? Otherwise as is the current state of affairs at our club, what's the point of being a said development club if as soon as you created a well balanced roster of quality players with experience and youth that can contend for a title, if you don't win it in that year or two max, you are done? The vultures will set upon the players and the players won't give a toss about their mates, possible premierships or loyalty to the club and all the resources, time and effort they put into you, you want top dollar and that is all that matters because that is what your manager says is the most important thing in the world. Payne Haas and his posse say hi.

As the apologists on this forum love telling us all, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Works both ways guys. Sometimes, especially in a well managed club and strong roster, not going to market and taking a little less is the smart and better thing to do. If we saved about an average of anything between $30-50k off of our top 20 players that would be a saving of $600K to $1m, maybe enough to keep most of them together after all. Just depends on the culture of the club and the people in charge that can talk and nurture players to see the big picture from an early age. Some clubs have got the right people in charge and around the players that can be great mentors both in football and life in general and the major decisions that young players have to navigate as professional athletes while other clubs fail to recognise the life issues part and ultimately and quickly find themselves failing at both.

I know it is a running joke on here that BA doesn't speak to anyone, but when it comes to personal life stuff and decisions I don't see BA as a mentor. Mark O'Neill seems to be just a company man that is there to get the best tight arse deal the club can get, which is fine, but again will probably only be perceived by the players as kind of like a real estate agent who is working for and trying to get the best result for their client. So an adversary. I don't know who in our club can or has any positive effect on our players to change their current mental approach when it comes to contract negotiations. But what we do know is that it certainly won't be coming from our captain and leader, of that we can all be sure of.

Players turning around 30 and looking for one last massive pay day, we can all understand. But players like Mahoney, Papalii, and especially Matterson who has always been on a decent wicket, should not be going to market looking for the very top dollar they can get the way all these players have. That is simply a failure of our club to create a great enough positive difference in culture and environment, in our DNA as a club, to sway our players to chose us at a fair value offer. Instead we are seen just the same as any other NRL club and the highest offer is the only difference that matters. That interchangeable opinion and assumption is the death knell of any club.

P.S.
Lowballing players initially may sound like a great tactic and I can see how in the beginning when we started with this tactic it made a whole lot of sense so as to shift the players and their managers mindset from the ridiculous overs we used to pay. But now I think it is causing more damage then good. In demand players and their managers will not come to the negotiating table early if they know and expect the club to always be making over the top lowball offers. They will simply take their clients to the market and tell the club, well lets see what my boy is worth then? Of course then you will have all the apologist on here again telling us all, you can't make them renegotiate early if they don't want to. But in reality, we played right into the hands of their managers and made their job much more easier then it should of been to convince their client to sit it out and go to market for that massive offer. Positive culture is driven by all the little things the people in charge are doing both on and off the field. We seem to be failing off of it, which in turn will eventually find its way onto it too.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
Now that COVID is sort of done with, I'd be taking a look at John Bateman.

I don't think it is any coincidence that the only two seasons out of the last five (six if you include this season) that the Raiders have made the Top 8 (GF and Prelim Final appearances no less), Bateman was in the team.

He only had issues with the Raiders because he was well under paid and COVID meant he couldn't see his young child. Pay him the right amount and he could be something else for us.

Plus he supposedly gets on well with Hodgson.

Agreed but he was becoming a little to injury prone there by the end for my liking, but he is a great players.

But the player I would love for us to have a shot at is Will Pryce. Superstar quality player.

 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,542
He was re-signed on a two year deal?? Considering he was looking at offers at other clubs makes me think he was seen as more than just a fringe first grader.

unless the other clubs only wanted him as a fringe player also
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,182
Mate as you well know some players will sign for the club they are at for what they feel is a reasonable offer made by the club without going to market, due to the love of the club and or the players/mates they are with, even if it is probably under what their highest market value is.

Happens all the time, look at Taylan May just yesterday. Do you think that the Panthers signed him because they made the highest offer?

Simply put there are many different reasons a player will sign for less, mates, strong rosters, coaches, persuasive quality hierarchy and even loyalty are just some.

We have a captain that didn't care for any of that and twice publicly allow his manager to finger us in public so he could extract the highest offer. He showed the rest of the squad how it is done and damn the torpedos. Also doesn't help when you have a Football Manager who notoriously works at a snails pace and allows players to go to the period of their contract that allows them to go to market.

Now all our players are used to waiting it out and seeing what is on offer. It has become a thing, a habit that they are all more or less doing now. The tone has been set. It will take leadership and a mind set change to reverse this now where players start to feel that as long as the offer is good for who they are, then they take it as long as they can all stay together and be in a strong and successful club. This in turn will create a fertile environment that will slowly seep through the club and build some sort of loyalty again. Especially for the players that come through our junior development systems.

That's the whole point of being a development club right? Otherwise as is the current state of affairs at our club, what's the point of being a said development club if as soon as you created a well balanced roster of quality players with experience and youth that can contend for a title, if you don't win it in that year or two max, you are done? The vultures will set upon the players and the players won't give a toss about their mates, possible premierships or loyalty to the club and all the resources, time and effort they put into you, you want top dollar and that is all that matters because that is what your manager says is the most important thing in the world. Payne Haas and his posse say hi.

As the apologists on this forum love telling us all, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Works both ways guys. Sometimes, especially in a well managed club and strong roster, not going to market and taking a little less is the smart and better thing to do. If we saved about an average of anything between $30-50k off of our top 20 players that would be a saving of $600K to $1m, maybe enough to keep most of them together after all. Just depends on the culture of the club and the people in charge that can talk and nurture players to see the big picture from an early age. Some clubs have got the right people in charge and around the players that can be great mentors both in football and life in general and the major decisions that young players have to navigate as professional athletes while other clubs fail to recognise the life issues part and ultimately and quickly find themselves failing at both.

I know it is a running joke on here that BA doesn't speak to anyone, but when it comes to personal life stuff and decisions I don't see BA as a mentor. Mark O'Neill seems to be just a company man that is there to get the best tight arse deal the club can get, which is fine, but again will probably only be perceived by the players as kind of like a real estate agent who is working for and trying to get the best result for their client. So an adversary. I don't know who in our club can or has any positive effect on our players to change their current mental approach when it comes to contract negotiations. But what we do know is that it certainly won't be coming from our captain and leader, of that we can all be sure of.

Players turning around 30 and looking for one last massive pay day, we can all understand. But players like Mahoney, Papalii, and especially Matterson who has always been on a decent wicket, should not be going to market looking for the very top dollar they can get the way all these players have. That is simply a failure of our club to create a great enough positive difference in culture and environment, in our DNA as a club, to sway our players to chose us at a fair value offer. Instead we are seen just the same as any other NRL club and the highest offer is the only difference that matters. That interchangeable opinion and assumption is the death knell of any club.

P.S.
Lowballing players initially may sound like a great tactic and I can see how in the beginning when we started with this tactic it made a whole lot of sense so as to shift the players and their managers mindset from the ridiculous overs we used to pay. But now I think it is causing more damage then good. In demand players and their managers will not come to the negotiating table early if they know and expect the club to always be making over the top lowball offers. They will simply take their clients to the market and tell the club, well lets see what my boy is worth then? Of course then you will have all the apologist on here again telling us all, you can't make them renegotiate early if they don't want to. But in reality, we played right into the hands of their managers and made their job much more easier then it should of been to convince their client to sit it out and go to market for that massive offer. Positive culture is driven by all the little things the people in charge are doing both on and off the field. We seem to be failing off of it, which in turn will eventually find its way onto it too.
BA not a mentor…players always talk about how good he is…did you see RCG praise the club and basically BA in his origin press conference?

and:

“Recollecting that meeting with Arthur, he said: “The biggest role model I’ve had in my life was Brad Arthur.
“He’d dropped me for round one of the 2018 season after I’d just had the best season of my NRL career.
I might have turned up to training still drunk or maybe I didn’t turn up at all because I was hungover. I’m not quite sure.
“I remember he told me in his office: ‘Ken, I can tell you’re a good father. Anyone can see that. But you’re not a consistent father.’
“At the time, I never knew what he meant and I was angry; I thought I was a good father as I was always there for my kids but – being sober now and thinking back to that day – I know I wasn’t.”



is that personal enough?
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,182
hey @TheRam, like this comment from RCG:

““I had to work out if I was chasing cash or wanting to win games. That was my thought process. I wanted to win games and enjoy football, and I was enjoying my football here. Had I won three or four premierships, it’s a different story when it comes to [contemplating] going to a brand-new franchise. And the lifestyle sounds appealing. But this is the team where I really want to win a premiership.”

 

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