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Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,191
Does that fall on the HOF or perhaps on the committee that was designed to ensure a) no player was overpaid b) the salary cap threshold was never threatened.

I would say both, don't we have a recruitment and retention committee ?

BA, MON, and one other ?
 

King-Gutho94

Coach
Messages
15,406
NRL 2023: Why the stocks on Mitchell Moses’ salary are begining to fall, Paul Kent

With Parramatta yet to record a win, the stocks on Mitchell Moses’ salary have begun to fall. If he was worth $1.25m at the start of 2023, what is his value now, asks Paul Kent.

Mitch Moses is perfectly justified in taking as long as he wants to sign a contract that will tie him to the Parramatta Eels for what’s left of his career, particularly given the kind of money spoken about is enough to result in several houses with ocean views or, failing that, to settle some small foreign debt.

The key, though, is the timing.

Not for Moses, but the Eels.


Parramatta fans walked away from 4 Pines Park Thursday night with the bitter taste of yet another loss in their mouths. Some say it was the 4 Pines but they were just being malicious, it was definitely the loss.

Already the faint hope left in their season is that the North Queensland Cowboys — and only the Cowboys in 2015 — were able to overcome a 0-3 start to the season like the Eels have now and go on to win a premiership.

All others have tried and failed in the NRL era.

A loss against Penrith next Thursday will be just about it for the Eels.

What does this say for Parramatta’s premiership window, which is starting to look more like a porthole now, and the massive amount they plan to pay Moses to make good on that.

Parramatta has lost all three games to open the season while simultaneously trying to woo Moses into signing for four more years in the belief that he is the playmaker to deliver them their premiership.

Some have questioned whether the negotiations might be a distraction for his teammates and partly responsible for their poor start.

The answer is hardly. Modern footballers don’t roll that way.

Moses started the season as Parramatta’s prize bull in the stockade, the Eels backing their faith with an offer worth $1.25 million a season. That’s Australian dollars too, not lira.

The question is what has Parramatta’s start done to Moses’ value?

If he was worth $1.25 million before round one, when the Eels entered the season as grand finalists, what is he worth now that Parramatta is still winless?

The reason for the question is the same reason Moses is asking the kind of money Parramatta is prepared to hand over, the kind only playmakers can command.

Besides dishing the ball from the dummy-half to their outside men, halfbacks like Moses are almost always charged with managing the game for their teams, and the good ones achieve this better than others.

It is how they are judged and why they are paid in gold doubloons.

Moses has been shown flashes of brilliance in all three Parramatta losses. At the same time, though, smarter football brains than you will find behind this byline are prepared to concede that, with a little better game management, the Eels could have turned all three losses into victories.

It’s not like Parramatta was out of it in any of the three games.

In all three, for instance, Parramatta scored the same amount of tries as their opponents but fell short on the scoreboard, if you don’t include Harry Grant’s extra time try for Melbourne.

What also hasn’t escaped many Eels fans is that, as well as being the chief playmaker, Moses is the goalkicker.

Who can say if the stress of his contract negotiations has seeped into his game, despite what the evidence might say. His kicking percentage is down this year.

And it is fair to say there are other reasons Parramatta has come up short.

The four pillars of Brad Arthur’s coaching are energy, effort, toughness and repeatability. In other words, play tough and keep going.

Parramatta got bashed by the Manly forwards Thursday night and, while that happens, the disappointing part was they failed to return serve.

That had little to do with Moses.

That said, the final trick all the very good halfbacks conquer is the ability to kick their team out of trouble when they are playing off the back foot.

Here the Eels have come up short.

Earlier this week former Souths and Wests Tigers coach Michael Maguire said a lot without saying much at all on Fox Sports’ Matty Johns Podcast when he spoke about playmakers working over their opponents.

Maguire’s admiration for Cooper Cronk, sitting across the desk from him, was evident.

Maguire was spoiled somewhat, he now realises, during his time as an assistant at Melbourne.

Running the water one day he called a play for Cronk, Cameron Smith and Billy Slater to run against an opposition player. They worked on it during the week.

Hold on, Smith said. He wanted one more set to drill some more fatigue into them and then they’d hit the play.

A set later Smith called go and the trio worked over their tired defender and scored.

“That said a lot to me about what spines need to be doing in preparation, with their team, to be able to actually dissect teams,” Maguire said.

In essence, that is the playmaker’s job.

As the game has become more professional the normal assumption would be that the knowledge here has only advanced with greater professionalism, but that would be a mistake.

Before the show was done Maguire also lamented the fact that the modern footballer does not seem to watch as much vision on their rivals as there used to be.

Somewhere along the line, goes one theory, it was considered cool to be one of those players detached from the game, one who’d prefer to watch the NBA over the weekend instead of watching NRL.

Nathan Cleary is the best game manager in the NRL and watches more vision than anybody.

It raises a question for the Eels.

With the Eels unable to game-manage their way out of each of their three losses, and all winnable, have the stocks on Moses’ salary begun to fall?

It would be a reasonable assumption in other lines of business.

The recent salary cap rise has bent values out of shape for the moment and teams are quickly adjusting to what is a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s effort, given the position.

What hasn’t changed, though, is that million dollar a year players still need to be driving the result for their teams, winning those games when everything else is basically equal.

Moses has it in him, but with the contract still in the drawer, the time is now before the Eels get twitchy.

 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
62,867
The issue we have is simple. Let's see if an 11yr coach can work it out on what the other sides are doing and it's clear as day.
They are copying Penrith. A side who will constantly have 5 of their backs making all the meters. Edwards and Too are always close to 200mtrs or more. The other 3 often will punch out 120-150mtrs
The forwards are working less. The days of having your two starting PROPS run for 180mtrs seen as a possitive and great effort each week is over.
You want them to be fresh. Smash in defense. Run about 120-130mtrs a game. Have the backs who defend less work harder.

BA has to sit Sivo and Waqa down and say listen. Run hard and run straight like a prop. Penisni ran with monster last game. It was great to watch. Waqa dancing around and pulling up when hits the line? That is what you drop him for not the occasional error. Sivo runs hard only 50/50
Simmonson runs sideways like a rabbit. Then makes 3mtrs, get dominated and defense smashes the next bloke hitting it up.
Yes Opacic had good defense but he was a bloody slug. His hit ups where as weak as piss. Forget Opacic and if we signed Momorski I'd give up on our recruitment team. The guys a plodder.

The games moved on from backs dancing around. You run straight and hard when you are working it out from own end with a fast play the ball. Any skips or silly steps and you drop them. How else will they learn?
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
I actually think if this season goes poorly and we sign Moses now, we have no room to move on any genuine recruits who will make a difference from next season. We are primarily stuck with the key players we've got, and the other half of the 17 just plodders for at least the next 2 seasons after this one.
 

gaffer

Juniors
Messages
1,057
NRL 2023: Why the stocks on Mitchell Moses’ salary are begining to fall, Paul Kent

With Parramatta yet to record a win, the stocks on Mitchell Moses’ salary have begun to fall. If he was worth $1.25m at the start of 2023, what is his value now, asks Paul Kent.

Mitch Moses is perfectly justified in taking as long as he wants to sign a contract that will tie him to the Parramatta Eels for what’s left of his career, particularly given the kind of money spoken about is enough to result in several houses with ocean views or, failing that, to settle some small foreign debt.

The key, though, is the timing.

Not for Moses, but the Eels.


Parramatta fans walked away from 4 Pines Park Thursday night with the bitter taste of yet another loss in their mouths. Some say it was the 4 Pines but they were just being malicious, it was definitely the loss.

Already the faint hope left in their season is that the North Queensland Cowboys — and only the Cowboys in 2015 — were able to overcome a 0-3 start to the season like the Eels have now and go on to win a premiership.

All others have tried and failed in the NRL era.

A loss against Penrith next Thursday will be just about it for the Eels.

What does this say for Parramatta’s premiership window, which is starting to look more like a porthole now, and the massive amount they plan to pay Moses to make good on that.

Parramatta has lost all three games to open the season while simultaneously trying to woo Moses into signing for four more years in the belief that he is the playmaker to deliver them their premiership.

Some have questioned whether the negotiations might be a distraction for his teammates and partly responsible for their poor start.

The answer is hardly. Modern footballers don’t roll that way.

Moses started the season as Parramatta’s prize bull in the stockade, the Eels backing their faith with an offer worth $1.25 million a season. That’s Australian dollars too, not lira.

The question is what has Parramatta’s start done to Moses’ value?

If he was worth $1.25 million before round one, when the Eels entered the season as grand finalists, what is he worth now that Parramatta is still winless?

The reason for the question is the same reason Moses is asking the kind of money Parramatta is prepared to hand over, the kind only playmakers can command.

Besides dishing the ball from the dummy-half to their outside men, halfbacks like Moses are almost always charged with managing the game for their teams, and the good ones achieve this better than others.

It is how they are judged and why they are paid in gold doubloons.

Moses has been shown flashes of brilliance in all three Parramatta losses. At the same time, though, smarter football brains than you will find behind this byline are prepared to concede that, with a little better game management, the Eels could have turned all three losses into victories.

It’s not like Parramatta was out of it in any of the three games.

In all three, for instance, Parramatta scored the same amount of tries as their opponents but fell short on the scoreboard, if you don’t include Harry Grant’s extra time try for Melbourne.

What also hasn’t escaped many Eels fans is that, as well as being the chief playmaker, Moses is the goalkicker.

Who can say if the stress of his contract negotiations has seeped into his game, despite what the evidence might say. His kicking percentage is down this year.

And it is fair to say there are other reasons Parramatta has come up short.

The four pillars of Brad Arthur’s coaching are energy, effort, toughness and repeatability. In other words, play tough and keep going.

Parramatta got bashed by the Manly forwards Thursday night and, while that happens, the disappointing part was they failed to return serve.

That had little to do with Moses.

That said, the final trick all the very good halfbacks conquer is the ability to kick their team out of trouble when they are playing off the back foot.

Here the Eels have come up short.

Earlier this week former Souths and Wests Tigers coach Michael Maguire said a lot without saying much at all on Fox Sports’ Matty Johns Podcast when he spoke about playmakers working over their opponents.

Maguire’s admiration for Cooper Cronk, sitting across the desk from him, was evident.

Maguire was spoiled somewhat, he now realises, during his time as an assistant at Melbourne.

Running the water one day he called a play for Cronk, Cameron Smith and Billy Slater to run against an opposition player. They worked on it during the week.

Hold on, Smith said. He wanted one more set to drill some more fatigue into them and then they’d hit the play.

A set later Smith called go and the trio worked over their tired defender and scored.

“That said a lot to me about what spines need to be doing in preparation, with their team, to be able to actually dissect teams,” Maguire said.

In essence, that is the playmaker’s job.

As the game has become more professional the normal assumption would be that the knowledge here has only advanced with greater professionalism, but that would be a mistake.

Before the show was done Maguire also lamented the fact that the modern footballer does not seem to watch as much vision on their rivals as there used to be.

Somewhere along the line, goes one theory, it was considered cool to be one of those players detached from the game, one who’d prefer to watch the NBA over the weekend instead of watching NRL.

Nathan Cleary is the best game manager in the NRL and watches more vision than anybody.

It raises a question for the Eels.

With the Eels unable to game-manage their way out of each of their three losses, and all winnable, have the stocks on Moses’ salary begun to fall?

It would be a reasonable assumption in other lines of business.

The recent salary cap rise has bent values out of shape for the moment and teams are quickly adjusting to what is a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s effort, given the position.

What hasn’t changed, though, is that million dollar a year players still need to be driving the result for their teams, winning those games when everything else is basically equal.

Moses has it in him, but with the contract still in the drawer, the time is now before the Eels get twitchy.

we're still doing the old 4 hitups with a kick to the sky on the fifth
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
62,867
I actually think if this season goes poorly and we sign Moses now, we have no room to move on any genuine recruits who will make a difference from next season. We are primarily stuck with the key players we've got, and the other half of the 17 just plodders for at least the next 2 seasons after this one.

I assume Moses and Brown where on huge deals already. The bump in salary would almost be inline with cap increases.
Brown and Waqa will be gone so that's 1 million.
Hodgson who knows his contract if signed on but he cost 400k
That's 1.4 mill. Also Bryce who'd be on 250k but I feel worth that and I'd extend him. He is 3 x the player of Moimesea.
The following year only plodders on small contracts come off them. 2024 we should be able to have an ok side. 2025 I can't see us adding much and a lot of old guys. We should be bottom 4 then.
2026 on the eay up again
 

Avenger

Immortal
Messages
34,024
I couldn't give a shit if we re-sign him or not. I'm leaning on not due to the f**king around of him and his manager. Imagine going into season 2024 with potentially $1.2m to sign a marquee or two experienced first graders. It would be the best. If we go 0 and 5 I'd almost be convinced that he isn't the answer and I'd pull the offer because our forwards would have matched theirs. They did in the first 3 losses whilst him and his space cadet mate couldn't close it out.
 

King-Gutho94

Coach
Messages
15,406
I couldn't give a shit if we re-sign him or not. I'm leaning on not due to the f**king around of him and his manager. Imagine going into season 2024 with potentially $1.2m to sign a marquee or two experienced first graders. It would be the best. If we go 0 and 5 I'd almost be convinced that he isn't the answer and I'd pull the offer because our forwards would have matched theirs. They did in the first 3 losses whilst him and his space cadet mate couldn't close it out.
Thing is if he goes now we have all this money and f**k all players on the market now to try and sign for next year.

So we will have to wait for the scraps and see whose not wanted while under contract at back end of the year.

So we have been screwed over one way as supposedly a decision was supposed to be made before Christmas.

Hard to manage and project our cap management for 2024, 2025 and 26. When the highest paid player wants to dilly dally to make a decision.
 

Wally21

Bench
Messages
4,427
I couldn't give a shit if we re-sign him or not. I'm leaning on not due to the f**king around of him and his manager. Imagine going into season 2024 with potentially $1.2m to sign a marquee or two experienced first graders. It would be the best. If we go 0 and 5 I'd almost be convinced that he isn't the answer and I'd pull the offer because our forwards would have matched theirs. They did in the first 3 losses whilst him and his space cadet mate couldn't close it out.
If Moses doesn’t sign, we don’t renew Blake, (if we do I will stage a one man protest outside the football club offices), have NBrown gone, we should have $2mil. I would chase someone like Trindall as halfback, (not sure of current contract status) a fringe origin prop and a fringe origin big body centre.
we miss Fergo running from the back.
I would also f**k off the following, Simonson, Momosea, Ogden and Rodwell. They will never make it and are not even decent back up players.
I don’t think Dunster will make it either unfortunately. So I would cut him. Loziou needs to go with him. Not sure about lumelune.
I think Doorey & Murchie are fringe first graders so would keep them. Although Dooreys injuries may always be an issue.
Hodgo needs to not be renewed. I thought the option was in favour of the club. Rein can go with him.
And yes I know I’m getting rid of more players than I am signing, but f**k me it’s time for a clean out.
 
Last edited:

Exsilium

Coach
Messages
10,337
If Moses doesn’t sign, we don’t renew Blake, (if we do I will stage a one man protest outside the football club offices), have NBrown gone, we should have $2mil. I would chase someone like Trindall as halfback, (not sure of current contract status) a fringe origin prop and a fringe origin big body centre.
we miss Fergo running from the back.
I would also f**k off the following, Simonson, Momosea, Ogden and Rodwell. They will never make it and are not even decent back up players.
I don’t think Dunster will make it either unfortunately. So I would cut him.
I think Doorey & Murchie are fringe first graders so would keep them. Although Dooreys injuries may always be an issue.
Hodgo needs to not be renewed. I thought the option was in favour of the club. Rein can go with him.
And yes I know I’m getting rid of more players than I am signing, but f**k me it’s time for a clean out.


Waqa is a better winger than Simonsen, if he could be shifted there and kept, I'd do that but NFI what he is on. When he was with us, he had a rough time at centre, we moved him to wing, it worked out well. Then you signed him.

Moses not signing creates a bit of a chaos when you have managers looking for places to send players or get them re-signed. I think you have an issue with halves leadership. Brown and Moses are both dominant players. Need to offset that a little. Think Hornby/Soward, Cleary/Luai or Keary/Walker, Elias/Walker.

Two dominant halves create structural issues when it comes to decoy runners, set plays and using your edge.

I'd look to keep Dbags and find a competent halfback and use the money elsewhere.
 

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