Rumours and Stuff

[Poupou Escobar]

That's the trouble right there - Tim used to be a 65min forward, first grade captain and origin rep.. and would presumably be being paid on that basis/expectation (but returning less value).

He signed his current contract long after playing Origin and long minutes at club level.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Here is the problem with starting Matagi and Mannah. Both very similar without much of an offload.
Probably sitting on the bench are Brown, Edwards, Vave and F Pritchard, all skilful players and 2 big bodies. Therefor in the backend of the first half you bring on these players who could potentially blow the game open up against a team's second string forwards.
Or does one of the bench forwards start with Mannah, or is Mannah warming the bench? Which way do you go?

Both aren't similar. Matagi runs much faster than Mannah and would win a lot more rucks when he has the ball whereas Mannah is the better defender and wrestler and he would win a lot more rucks when he doesn't have the ball. So you're right, neither are known for offloading but that is the only similarity, both are different players with different skill sets.

I believe if we are going to go with Matagi it would be best if you start him alongside Mannah and Scott as they are the best two defenders and wrestlers we have at the club, just like if Vave or Fritchard were in the team you'd start them alongside these two.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Mannah's future is in the #16, may as well kick it off that way in 2017.

Only trouble is they'll have to spin it when he's benched, because Mannah is a long-term servant of the club, is a former captain, and some fans still think he is our #1 prop/midle forward.

Why does it have to be the #16? Can he play in the #15 or don't props play in the #15 jersey?

 

[Obscene Assassin]

With no strike in our starting hooker and only one genuine half we needed to improve our go forward.

Yeah that'd be why we've gone out and bought a lot more forwards because one of our halves isn't a known half. If you give him time to make his decisions Gutherson's lack of experience in the halves won't be as noticeable.

 

[Chipmunk]

With no strike in our starting hooker and only one genuine half we needed to improve our go forward.

I think that was the main point of my original post.

 

[Chipmunk]

Here is the problem with starting Matagi and Mannah. Both very similar without much of an offload.
Probably sitting on the bench are Brown, Edwards, Vave and F Pritchard, all skilful players and 2 big bodies. Therefor in the backend of the first half you bring on these players who could potentially blow the game open up against a team's second string forwards.
Or does one of the bench forwards start with Mannah, or is Mannah warming the bench? Which way do you go?

I think De Gois will be found out if he's going to have to play 80 minutes, so I can't see us having a bench of Brown, Edwards, Vave and F Pritchard.

 

[Bazal]

Mannah's future is in the #16, may as well kick it off that way in 2017.

Only trouble is they'll have to spin it when he's benched, because Mannah is a long-term servant of the club, is a former captain, and some fans still think he is our #1 prop/midle forward.

Yep. Have your hard working, platform laying prop coming off the bench after 30mins rather than. The impact players. Revolutionary genius that is....

 

[Chipmunk]

Wicks had to be replaced - so we signed Matagi (thus the late signing)

Paulo had to be replaced so we signed Vava (we needed a "big" boy)

Watmough had to be replaced so we signed Brown.

We lost 3 top 17 forwards so we replaced them.

And on Pritchard, he probably showed some interested in coming back maybe we us, and it was to good to refuse considering we have cap space available.

And doubt the first three are on more then who there are replacing.

Regarding forwards / cap, I reckon most squad may have a forward or two outside their top 17 on more then the minimum. It's a tough game and you probably need 3-4 more quality forwards outside your top 17, and you don't really want them to be crap!!

If everyone is fit I can't see the four forwards we have signed not being in the Top 17.

I also don't see Scott, Ma'u or Edwards not being in the Top 17

I also don't see us not carrying someone who can fill in at dummy half on the bench, as I see a major weakness in the team dynamics if De Gois has to play 80 minutes, so I think Pritchard or potentially even Robson will always get a run in the 17.

That leaves Mannah or Moeroa sitting in NSW Cup with our other middle forwards from 2016.

 

[phantom eel]

He signed his current contract long after playing Origin and long minutes at club level.

So you think he re-signed for a downgrade? Just like sometimes maligned club stalwart Luke Burt?

More likely Tim/his manager put forward an argument that he should remain on his previous pay level, and that he would return to his best/peak/rep form during the new contract term etc etc. Being a shambles at the time and paying overs to anybody, we probably fell for it and despite contract value on performance Mannah is probably close to the border of our top 17, if not now below..

 

[phantom eel]

Yep. Have your hard working, platform laying prop coming off the bench after 30mins rather than. The impact players. Revolutionary genius that is....

Well, it's either that or he's starts the game for Wenty - your choice.

 

[phantom eel]

Why does it have to be the #16? Can he play in the #15 or don't props play in the #15 jersey?

He can play in the #38 for all it matters... I suspect he will opt for #16 though.

 

[84 Baby]

So you think he re-signed for a downgrade? Just like sometimes maligned club stalwart Luke Burt?

More likely Tim/his manager put forward an argument that he should remain on his previous pay level, and that he would return to his best/peak/rep form during the new contract term etc etc.

More likely they referred to Mannah being eligible for the long serving discount so they'd pay him the same amount but be less cap cost

 

[Bazal]

Well, it's either that or he's starts the game for Wenty - your choice.

Haha. My choice? Right.....

I'm 100% certain the coach (who ACTUALLY makes the choice, that's how football works) rather have one of our best, toughest forwards starting in first grade than wasting space on the bench or wasting time in NSW cup.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Mannah's future is in the #16, may as well kick it off that way in 2017.

Only trouble is they'll have to spin it when he's benched, because Mannah is a long-term servant of the club, is a former captain, and some fans still think he is our #1 prop/midle forward.

He might not be our best middle forward but he is quite obviously more a starting forward than an impact player, much like Aiden Tolman. The last time Mannah came off the bench was in Kearney's last game in 2012. His defence and work rate are too good for limited minutes.

 

[hindy111]

Matagi also has duke experience.Don't underestimate this.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think that was the main point of my original post.

Your point was that they were all on top 17 money so will be in the top 17. Probably true for Vave, Brown and Fritchard (a very late signing when we had money to spend and nobody to spend it on) but almost certainly not true for Matagi (a late signing who has been off contract all year for no takers).

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Well, it's either that or he's starts the game for Wenty - your choice.

Well it's actually BA's choice. But let's keep up kayfabe.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

He can play in the #38 for all it matters... I suspect he will opt for #16 though.

This isn't mid-90's Super League, players don't pick their numbers.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So you think he re-signed for a downgrade? Just like sometimes maligned club stalwart Luke Burt?

Maybe not a downgrade in absolute terms (though possible) but a downgrade relative to the cap. If a player re-signs for the same amount he was on he will be on a lower percentage of the cap. Mannah also became the only player in the squad who qualified for the long service allowance, meaning the portion of his contract under the cap was much less.

More likely Tim/his manager put forward an argument that he should remain on his previous pay level, and that he would return to his best/peak/rep form during the new contract term etc etc. Being a shambles at the time and paying overs to anybody, we probably fell for it and despite contract value on performance Mannah is probably close to the border of our top 17, if not now below..

He re-signed in early 2014 after back-to-back wooden spoons. And while Brad Arthur is obviously a big fan (he picks him in the starting lineup every week) I doubt there was enough demand elsewhere to drive his price up.

As for his form, it is constant from year to year. He is not yet in his decline, unlike Scott and Fritchard.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well, it's either that or he's starts the game for Wenty - your choice.

I know you don't like to hear it but it will be the coach making that choice. Not any of us.