Rumours and Whingers and Occasional Optimism XXIX

[emjaycee]

I reckon the total amount of the 3rd party deals isn't that big a number.

How big a number do you think is a big number?

 

[Gronk]

I reckon the total amount of the 3rd party deals isn't that big a number.

IIRC there was an allegation by Kent that we inflated service contracts to suppliers who in turn supplied TPAs to players. So (for example) we paid $300k for $250k of IT support and they sponsored a merkin for $50k. We'd be up shit creek if that was proven no doubt.

 

[oldmancraigy]

IIRC there was an allegation by Kent that we inflated service contracts to suppliers who in turn supplied TPAs to players. So (for example) we paid $300k for $250k of IT support and they sponsored a merkin for $50k. We'd be up shit creek if that was proven no doubt.

How on earth could you prove that!?!

Unless someone was dumb enough to document it....
But surely you can't get stung for paying $300k for IT work which another company might quote $250k for... even IF the company you paid $300k to gives a player $50k, isn't it circumstantial evidence that the club organised for that to happen? ie, no real link. Surely that couldn't fly...

Unless someone was dumb enough to document it...

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

That doesn't wash with me. If we are complaint in 2016. How can they punish us for 2016? .

For at least 3 reasons. 1) As a deterrent against teams rolling the dice in a rebuilding year and attracting players through undisclosed and front-loaded agreements, and 2) As a general deterrent for non-disclosure and outright mis-representation and 3) Whether you are cap-compliant in a given year as affected by the allowed salary cap treatment of payments across the life of a player's contract.

 

[Twizzle]

IMO TPAs have to exist (restriction of trade) and they are fine in the current format. The club has to organize them, but cannot guarantee them, so it is the responsibility of the agent to ensure they are sweet (executed). TPAs are as previlent because the club sources these so don't take it away from the club.

The NRL has to be privy to every TPA, if they aren't, the TPA is in breach. This is the thing , along with Watmo's TPA ownership. If we have disclosed them to NRL, we are sweet, if not we have will be at fault.

Inviting guest who eventuate into TPAs into our Corp suites or become vendors will not be an issue because they can have evolved from these beginnings. We can organize TPAs after a contract has signed as has been inferred in some of the catch up deals reported, player contracts are revisited all the time, the two crucial points are including the NRL and not coming from a current sponsor. Every other point can't be faulted.

I cant see any 10 percenters wanting to take responsibility for anything other than thier 10 %

 

[Noise]

How on earth could you prove that!?!

Unless someone was dumb enough to document it....
But surely you can't get stung for paying $300k for IT work which another company might quote $250k for... even IF the company you paid $300k to gives a player $50k, isn't it circumstantial evidence that the club organised for that to happen? ie, no real link. Surely that couldn't fly...

Unless someone was dumb enough to document it...

It might also be an issue that these deals are not at 'arm's length' from the club. And Im sure some idiot has documented it.

 

[IFR33K]

I cant see any 10 percenters wanting to take responsibility for anything other than thier 10 %

Said it before, but I'd like to know what role managers have played in our cap scandal. They should be the ones obtaining tpa's, but they are probably putting the onus on clubs to do so.

 

[emjaycee]

For at least 3 reasons. 1) As a deterrent against teams rolling the dice in a rebuilding year and attracting players through undisclosed and front-loaded agreements, and 2) As a general deterrent for non-disclosure and outright mis-representation and 3) Whether you are cap-compliant in a given year as affected by the allowed salary cap treatment of payments across the life of a player's contract.

and 4) because the NRL is allowed to audit salary cap payments back 4 years and apply any breaches to the current years cap.

 

[strider]

It limits the extent of the disadvantage of some teams relative to an 'open slather' system, and constrains overall expenditure.

yes it can help constrain overall expenditure for the poor clubs .... they can choose to play by the rules

but the first bit of what you said is the crux of the issue - it IS currently open slather because of hidden TPAs etc

 

[Noise]

and 4) because the NRL is allowed to audit salary cap payments back 4 years and apply any breaches to the current years cap.

So that refers to 2012 onwards or is the 4 years with 2016 inclusive (2013-2016)?

2012 3p
2013 Jan-May 3p, May onwards Sharp and co
2014 Sharp and co
2015 Sharp and co
2016 Sharp and co

 

[Gronk]

Deterrence sentencing is flawed in concept and the NRL will need to be careful that the punishment is commensurate with the "crime". It must be comparable, precedents are in place with previous fines / points deductions over the past decade.

 

[Gronk]

yes it can help constrain overall expenditure for the poor clubs .... they can choose to play by the rules

but the first bit of what you said is the crux of the issue - it IS currently open slather because of hidden TPAs etc

TPA system is bullshit. Let's say that we had a billionaire oil baron sugar daddy. Not affiliated with the club. He just liked the Eels.

He makes it known that money is no object and bank rolls TPAs to the tune of $5M per year spread over the entire roster. Unfair ? Yes. Legal ? Why not ?

 

[84 Baby]

How on earth could you prove that!?!

Unless someone was dumb enough to document it....
But surely you can't get stung for paying $300k for IT work which another company might quote $250k for... even IF the company you paid $300k to gives a player $50k, isn't it circumstantial evidence that the club organised for that to happen? ie, no real link. Surely that couldn't fly...

Unless someone was dumb enough to document it...

It is my hope (?) that this is why this audit has taken so long that they were looking for similar arrangements by us, because in isolation you're right it'd be difficult to prove wrongdoing given the amounts and services, even though in perception it is dodgy. In a group it's points, in isolation at worst it's a fine. Also someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm certain this scenario emerged last year or at least before the start of this season?

Moving onto Mossop, I've got a sneaking suspicion where his money has come from and it may be related to WHY Watmough got paid from who he did

 

[Dibs]

TPA system is bullshit. Let's say that we had a billionaire oil baron sugar daddy. Not affiliated with the club. He just liked the Eels.

He makes it known that money is no object and bank rolls TPAs to the tune of $5M per year spread over the entire roster. Unfair ? Yes. Legal ? Why not ?

Interesting thought mate. I was only thinking myself that if I was in a position to buy my club I would possibly better off not buying it but just financing tpas. Surely there must be rules to stop this otherwise you would think it would be happening all the time

 

[Noise]

Interesting thought mate. I was only thinking myself that if I was in a position to buy my club I would possibly better off not buying it but just financing tpas. Surely there must be rules to stop this otherwise you would think it would be happening all the time

I reckon there would be a stack of rules relating to TPA's that we don't know about. A rule such as 1 company is only allowed to sponsor 1 player per team would help prevent Gronks example (I don't know if there is such a rule but just giving an example)

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

and 4) because the NRL is allowed to audit salary cap payments back 4 years and apply any breaches to the current years cap.

Yes, that too. I was just referring to the reasons of principle.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

yes it can help constrain overall expenditure for the poor clubs .... they can choose to play by the rules

but the first bit of what you said is the crux of the issue - it IS currently open slather because of hidden TPAs etc

It's not quite open slather, because under this system the clubs run the risk of getting caught , and this surely factors into decisions. Also there are 'transaction costs' associated with playing silly buggers.

 

[Gronk]

Interesting thought mate. I was only thinking myself that if I was in a position to buy my club I would possibly better off not buying it but just financing tpas. Surely there must be rules to stop this otherwise you would think it would be happening all the time

I reckon there would be a stack of rules relating to TPA's that we don't know about. A rule such as 1 company is only allowed to sponsor 1 player per team would help prevent Gronks example (I don't know if there is such a rule but just giving an example)

Well I guess there are some clubs who are lucky with TPAs and some not.

Feb 18 2016 at 1:15 AM

Roosters chairman Nick Politis pays $15.5m for Brisbane building

Sydney Roosters chairman Nick Politis has invested in the historic Heckelmann's Building.
by Matthew Cranston

Sydney Roosters rugby league club chairman Nick Politis has snapped up the historic Heckelmann's Building in the heart of Brisbane's CBD for $15.5 million, outbidding other southern investors.

The building at 171 Elizabeth Street sits opposite the Hilton Hotel. It was going to be part of a major apartment development alongside the neighbouring Irish Club's Tara House. The latter has been sold for $8.1 million to the cinema-owning Sourris family.

Knight Frank senior director for institutional sales Justin Bond and associate director Tom O'Driscoll managed both sales. Ray White Commercial's John Dwyer acted on behalf of the Sourris family.

"Our formal marketing campaign for 171 Elizabeth Street resulted in a large number of offers from private investors and developers; mostly from interstate investors who have been priced out of the Sydney and Melbourne CBD markets," Mr Bond said.

Mr Politis,whose wealth is estimated by the BRW Rich List at $594 million, invests in real estate across the country.

Just over a year ago, he sold a City Lexus dealership in Melbourne for about $15 million.

He is also in the midst of acquiring a Charter Hall asset, Wentworth Plaza, at 9 Wentworth Street in Parramatta in a deal worth more than $40 million. That property could be used in conjunction with a nearby complex he bought last year for $13.9 million to create a major development.

The latest Elizabeth Street property deal involves leases to Mitre 10 and Metcash. The heritage building was constructed as a warehouse in 1884. Through its rich history, it has been carefully restored and upgraded. The four-storey building has a net lettable area of 2310 square metres.

The property benefits from close proximity to Queen Street Mall, the Golden Triangle and the Edward Street high-end retail precinct.

Read more: http://www.afr.com/real-estate/roos...isbane-building-20160217-gmw538#ixzz46RKa5D2i
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[84 Baby]

Lol 7 running with "Hayne doing renos to Moore Park house, must mean he signing with roosters"

 

[yy_cheng]

TPA system is bullshit. Let's say that we had a billionaire oil baron sugar daddy. Not affiliated with the club. He just liked the Eels.

He makes it known that money is no object and bank rolls TPAs to the tune of $5M per year spread over the entire roster. Unfair ? Yes. Legal ? Why not ?

Didn't we have that guy moss from mac bank