Sack Griffin

[Lovemedragons]

Just read an article on FoxSport linking Fanno with the Tigers gig. Webb must be tempted to cut our loses with Griffin & make a serious play for Bennett in 2022.

Griffin must be under pressure given all the off field dramas plus our lacklustre form. We’ve gone from looking good for a top eight finish to now looking like a McGregor era 12th place.

Another issue is our lack of recruitment for 2022 with a number of first grade players moving on this year we’re going to be 5 or 6 players short of a top 30. His approach of recruiting veteran Qld players & Beale from retirement has failed.

Personally I’ve lost faith in Griffin, I don’t see where improvement comes from next year given how mentally fragile we are particularly in defence.

Time will tell I guess but right now I’m very concerned about the state we’re in.

I think your spot on, sorry to say.

 

[Dragonslayer]

If you were a Manly supporter, would you have called for Dezi's sacking last year?

They finished 13th (below us) and had over 500 points scored against them. Won 3/7 at the "Fortress".

 

[Crush]

If you were a Manly supporter, would you have called for Dezi's sacking last year?

They finished 13th (below us) and had over 500 points scored against them. Won 3/7 at the "Fortress".

Tommy Turbo!
Geez he’s a great player.
All the top teams have a player like him that can break open a game.
Paps, Latrell, Teddy, we just need one!

 

[Lovemedragons]

Before I get in to this, is your profile picture some clever attempt at a crack at Griffin because he has the same sirname as a fictional character? A bit lame IMO.

1) Don't understand what you mean about Dufty, care to elaborate as to how his substandard performances this year are Hooks fault?

2) Hunt has had a cracking year at 7 yet you are wanting Mary's tactics last year resumed it seems?

3) Selecting a premiership winning winger we picked up for peanuts during a period we were seriously depleted on outside backs and giving a young Penrith junior a run in first grade? Seriously? Not sure how either of them have failed miserably, neither have been our worst IMO.

4) Norman was here when Hook arrived and not many other options around the place, he wasn't resigned so won't be here next year, get over it and move on.

5) Is that what he said? There was no reason to it? There is a reason behind everything.

6) Most of the mentioned were not getting a run last year and have had their chances this year, juniors getting blooded is a good thing. This coach has a good record bringing through juniors, go back and look at the Brisbane/Penrith players he brought through, no reason why he won't do the same with us, he knows what he is doing.

7) Our defence was great over the first 8 rounds or so, go back and have a look. Certainly an improvement on last year.

8) Making use of a versatile player? No way thats crazy. Bird has been one of our best this season and has done well across the park.

9) We are higher than where we were last year.

10) Kerr has been okay in the back row, it was always worth a try, lots of people want us to sign some big second rowers well why not at least try and manufacture a big second rower?

11) How do you know he hasn't done this with Tariq? Besides he has some cracking games for us this year.

12) Not sure how the BBQ taking place is his fault? He warned the players, they went and did it anyway, doesn't make him a bad coach.

so you still feeling the love after the cracking Raiders game? The only reason we werent embarassed yet again was more to do with the ineptness of the Raiders and little to do with anything Griffin did.
No, the Stewie Griffin thing is a coincidence, at least he is funny and ffs we need a laugh.
Just what would you do with Bird next week, Front Row? FB was another stupid selection.
Dufty has sublime ball skills, speed to burn but is clearly immature and has little in life skills, the coach should be able to work with that but Dufty got worse under Griffin.
Norman is a joke, he may have been inherited but a good coach would have dealt with that early, he is poison to every club he has been at for many years. He gets a little worse every week - hes a bit like George Costanza trying to get sacked from the Yankees yet he can't even get that right. He wasn't taken up in 2022 but that was against Griffin's wishes.
Sims doesn't put in for us, or only rarely - he is disappointing most of the time but was a star in all the SOO matches - go figure.
You tell me honestly - if Wayne Bennett or Craig Bellamy (premiership coaches) had told his players not to have a bbq, do you think they would have had a bbq?

 

[Lovemedragons]

If you were a Manly supporter, would you have called for Dezi's sacking last year?

They finished 13th (below us) and had over 500 points scored against them. Won 3/7 at the "Fortress".

No I wouldn't have because you see Des Hasler is a premiership coach and had a plan and understands his club and its culture....and he has the respect of the players.

 

[thebigredv]

Tommy Turbo!
Geez he’s a great player.
All the top teams have a player like him that can break open a game.
Paps, Latrell, Teddy, we just need one!

Enter Moses Mbye.

 

[BLM01]

I was very upbeat at the beginning of the season and that was not based on finishing top 4, 6 or 8 or winning 4/5 it was based on having a coach superior to our last one and the belief our squad would develop.

Simple point is that very few in the squad have developed and some have been so arrogant that our season has suffered as a result.

Every time we have had injuries, suspensions we have not been able to reinforce our side to make it competitive.

There is a stench in the place and that stench has permeated all aspects of our very existence.

Yes some sides are probably worse than us but that does not preclude our squad from being god damned awful it just means that others are more so.

The analysis of our side should not be from the view point that there are worse it should be from the knowledge that we can't progress with what we have had thus far.

Next year with a few coming there is greater hope that something will flick the switch and we will start to see far better outcomes but if we just held onto what we have we would for sure be candidates for the spoon next year and that is why I say its is god damned awful and that Hook ultimately had no chance given what he inherited.

Whichever way you look at it we have a better squad next year with signings than this year and wont be spoon contenders.

 

[Old Timer]

Whichever way you look at it we have a better squad next year with signings than this year and wont be spoon contenders.

I agree 100%

 

[thebigredv]

Whichever way you look at it we have a better squad next year with signings than this year and wont be spoon contenders.

Seems this is now some people's definition of success.

 

[Dragonslayer]

No I wouldn't have because you see Des Hasler is a premiership coach and had a plan and understands his club and its culture....and he has the respect of the players.

It's a real quandary though. Hasler is true and true Eagles man, but you could argue so is Kevvie Walters at the Broncos (though it is daylight in coaching ability), obviously Bennett is a multi-winning coach, but does he understand the Bunnies culture? probably the comparable would be Bellamy. As for Griffin, i've been neither praiseworthy or lamentful of his efforts this season. I've stated regularly about the 'Dad's Army" approach, which I believe has really hit us hard now that the whips are cracking for the finals. In saying that, not having the same combinations near on every game has contributed to this. Have we played better football? at times I would say absolutely, at other times our reserve grade look better, but the question remains, why is there such a void between the 2 extremes?

I like your comment re: plan, and in particular what is our plan moving forward into 2022. If the plan was to change the culture, then obviously some haven't bought into it. The BBQ testament to that even to the point of Maguire admitting "they thought they'd get away with it". Not only disrespecting the coach, but the Club and brand as well. If the plan was to move on the 'deadwood', then he has been successful in doing that (more to come I imagine). If the plan was to bring on the young players, then again a tick, however, the counter could be that is was not by design, with only injuries and suspensions giving them their opportunity.
Our 'culture' was a dogs breakfast when he arrived, it has improved marginally.

I'm not going to enter into the COVID effected season debate, nor the judiciary suspensions debate, as they have been debated ad nauseum.

The question of will Griifin survive? I have no doubt he will at least see out his contract, whether an extension of that contract will happen, will only be determined next season. Putting it simply, there aren't any premiership winning coaches who understand the Dragons culture and have a plan for our future available. People will instantly bring up Bennett, and yes, he ticks all those boxes, however, he will go back to QLD and will head up the new franchise that will come into the league, a process that would take at least 12 months to get going.

What we need is that 'superstar' player, which we (and most other clubs around or below us on the ladder) don't currently have. Dezi suffered greatly last year, and at times this year also, without T.Turbo. To the point that he was only offered a 1yr extension (laughable I know). Hence, when T.Turbo returned Manly's fortunes changed also, and now Dezi is a big chance of a top 4 finish.

Unfortunately, the culture, as it currently stands (and I'm referring to ALL through the Club) from Board to ball boy, isn't one of enticement for a superstar player, more so we will have to manufacture one ourselves. I'm hoping we have some in our pipeline.

 

[Dragon David]

I was hoping sometime during the last off season (December time or thereabouts) that with the signing of Hook as our coach in 2021 this type of thread would not be created and that all the negatives that we have had to endure from 2012 onwards would be turned into positives, but alas, this type of thread has indeed surfaced and has been gaining momentum.

The posts are looking similar to what was said during the coaching downlights of Price and McGregor. But in saying this I think we are a bit premature in saying Hook should be given the flick and we should wait until next year to see if Hook and Co have put in place a team capable of playing good football consistently and winning the majority of games for at least half of the season and our culture has improved 100%.

It has been a bloody tough assignment for our coaches so hopefully things will change for the better.

These last 4 games I'm writing us off and in December of this year, during the off season, I will be hoping that this thread will lose momentum and not surface in 2022.

 

[Como Connection]

It's a real quandary though. Hasler is true and true Eagles man, but you could argue so is Kevvie Walters at the Broncos (though it is daylight in coaching ability), obviously Bennett is a multi-winning coach, but does he understand the Bunnies culture? probably the comparable would be Bellamy. As for Griffin, i've been neither praiseworthy or lamentful of his efforts this season. I've stated regularly about the 'Dad's Army" approach, which I believe has really hit us hard now that the whips are cracking for the finals. In saying that, not having the same combinations near on every game has contributed to this. Have we played better football? at times I would say absolutely, at other times our reserve grade look better, but the question remains, why is there such a void between the 2 extremes?

I like your comment re: plan, and in particular what is our plan moving forward into 2022. If the plan was to change the culture, then obviously some haven't bought into it. The BBQ testament to that even to the point of Maguire admitting "they thought they'd get away with it". Not only disrespecting the coach, but the Club and brand as well. If the plan was to move on the 'deadwood', then he has been successful in doing that (more to come I imagine). If the plan was to bring on the young players, then again a tick, however, the counter could be that is was not by design, with only injuries and suspensions giving them their opportunity.
Our 'culture' was a dogs breakfast when he arrived, it has improved marginally.

I'm not going to enter into the COVID effected season debate, nor the judiciary suspensions debate, as they have been debated ad nauseum.

The question of will Griifin survive? I have no doubt he will at least see out his contract, whether an extension of that contract will happen, will only be determined next season. Putting it simply, there aren't any premiership winning coaches who understand the Dragons culture and have a plan for our future available. People will instantly bring up Bennett, and yes, he ticks all those boxes, however, he will go back to QLD and will head up the new franchise that will come into the league, a process that would take at least 12 months to get going.

What we need is that 'superstar' player, which we (and most other clubs around or below us on the ladder) don't currently have. Dezi suffered greatly last year, and at times this year also, without T.Turbo. To the point that he was only offered a 1yr extension (laughable I know). Hence, when T.Turbo returned Manly's fortunes changed also, and now Dezi is a big chance of a top 4 finish.

Unfortunately, the culture, as it currently stands (and I'm referring to ALL through the Club) from Board to ball boy, isn't one of enticement for a superstar player, more so we will have to manufacture one ourselves. I'm hoping we have some in our pipeline.

As another poster said earlier Nathan Brown somewhere down the line.
Sounds good to me.
CC

 

[redv13]

As another poster said earlier Nathan Brown somewhere down the line.
Sounds good to me.
CC

If things don’t work out with Griffin I’d be more than happy to see Browny back at Saints.

 

[Dragon David]

If things don’t work out with Griffin I’d be more than happy to see Browny back at Saints.

I can still see him slapping the face of Trent Barrett in 2003 and he is still embarrassed for doing it I am sure. Brown since then has matured and would still have the love of the Dragons in his blood. Whether or not that is enough to be the coach again is debatable.

 

[Inisai Toga]

I can still see him slapping the face of Trent Barrett in 2003 and he is still embarrassed for doing it I am sure. Brown since then has matured and would still have the love of the Dragons in his blood. Whether or not that is enough to be the coach again is debatable.

not for mine; done little to warrant him as a choice imo.

 

[thebigredv]

and would still have the love of the Dragons in his blood. .

This was Dean Young's finest attribute no matter what you thought of him as interim coach. We were and perhaps still very much looking for an outsider to come in and save the club but maybe it is only love that can really save us.

Where is the love?

 

[matPORTS]

Posted about this in the 2022 signings/re-signings thread, but it's probably equally relevant here.

No elite level player is going to touch us with a 10 foot barge pole, and there is no guarantee on Sullivan & Amone lighting it up this off-season to warrant a permanent start in the 6 jersey. They have not had the miles in the legs due to reserve grade being disrupted throughout the last 1.5 seasons - and due to the rabble that our club has been in as a result of the previous coaching regiment, we are still a long way off our junior system re-igniting... hence we have the heavy rumour that we are chasing Mbye - surely we need to up our standards in the recruitment stakes at some point?

This is ultimately what might make or break Hook in terms of how long his tenure lasts - no doubt he was also of the mindset that he needed to get our junior system firing again pretty quick smart. But that has not worked out and we are going to need another round of subidised buys to cover gaps in our roster.

Now this is not ideal, but it is the reality. It should also not be used as an excuse when the board determines whether or not Hook gets a contract extension.

A further make or break issue:

Since the Round 5 win against the Eels (and literally 24hrs after Hook was on NRL360 being praised for the great job he had done to turn us around so quickly), we have lost games against the Warriors (once), Dogs (once), Tigers (twice), Raiders (once), Titans (once). All of whom were either below or at least equal with us on the table at the time we played them (isolating but not discounting the golden point loss against the Sharks and the good start we had against an under-strength Manly post Origin). We should not have been dropping six games against these teams (a 3 and 3 record was surely minimum pass mark sort of expectation here) - and it is this kind of rubbish that must stop... surely the coaching staff must be accountable here?

 

[Dragon David]

Posted about this in the 2022 signings/re-signings thread, but it's probably equally relevant here.

No elite level player is going to touch us with a 10 foot barge pole, and there is no guarantee on Sullivan & Amone lighting it up this off-season to warrant a permanent start in the 6 jersey. They have not had the miles in the legs due to reserve grade being disrupted throughout the last 1.5 seasons - and due to the rabble that our club has been in as a result of the previous coaching regiment, we are still a long way off our junior system re-igniting... hence we have the heavy rumour that we are chasing Mbye - surely we need to up our standards in the recruitment stakes at some point?

This is ultimately what might make or break Hook in terms of how long his tenure lasts - no doubt he was also of the mindset that he needed to get our junior system firing again pretty quick smart. But that has not worked out and we are going to need another round of subidised buys to cover gaps in our roster.

Now this is not ideal, but it is the reality. It should also not be used as an excuse when the board determines whether or not Hook gets a contract extension.

A further make or break issue:

Since the Round 5 win against the Eels (and literally 24hrs after Hook was on NRL360 being praised for the great job he had done to turn us around so quickly), we have lost games against the Warriors (once), Dogs (once), Tigers (twice), Raiders (once), Titans (once). All of whom were either below or at least equal with us on the table at the time we played them (isolating but not discounting the golden point loss against the Sharks and the good start we had against an under-strength Manly post Origin). We should not have been dropping six games against these teams (a 3 and 3 record was surely minimum pass mark sort of expectation here) - and it is this kind of rubbish that must stop... surely the coaching staff must be accountable here?

The sad part about it all is that the elite level players have already established themselves in the top 5-6 teams and it is only when they have almost reached their best before or use by date, they look for money and a good term to bide them over when they retire so it becomes a battle for the lower teams to outdo each other at the negotiating table to get an ex-elite player.

The Dragons banner is not worth much nowadays. The players running around in this modern day do not have that "gee I'd love to play for the Dragons" desire. We seem to be a spent force now to many players and as you say matPorts, no elite player would touch us with a 10 foot barge pole. This is the massive dilemma we are living with. How is it that our brand has fallen ungraciously? The BOD really need to answer this and do something sooner rather than later to get us to be a wanted club again!!

 

[I'm Hornby]

If things don’t work out with Griffin I’d be more than happy to see Browny back at Saints.

I really hope things take a turn for the better and Hook ends up being a long term coach at the club, but yes if things get worse I too wouldn't mind seeing a home coming for Brownie.

He is now an insider with plenty of outside experience and he has always had an eye for talent even when he was our coach, recent examples are Walsh at the warriors and Ponga at the Knights.

 

[I'm Hornby]

I can still see him slapping the face of Trent Barrett in 2003 and he is still embarrassed for doing it I am sure. Brown since then has matured and would still have the love of the Dragons in his blood. Whether or not that is enough to be the coach again is debatable.

I reckon that should be one of his prouder moments.

How good would it be to see Hook do the same to Norman before season's end?