Salary Cap

[Chipmunk]

Someone actually said something similar to this to me not long after Hayne left, that Parra had salary cap issues so Hayne left for a year (I didn;t believe it) - when all the conspiracy theories were thrown up about why he really left. I can't remember who said it and they prob had no credibility anyway...but interesting nonetheless.

The Club didn't really seem overly fussed when The Plane left.

 

[Gronk]

If we had announced in our Tuesday team list of only 15-16 players and it was due to salary cap restraints, the media would have been all over it in the papers on Wednesday and the NRL would've started to work with us and help us rectify the issue before the next match on the weekend.

We were never tactically smart during this entire process, I think inexperience of the board/administration/coaching staff probably didn't help us in our negotiations.

I get what you're saying but really unless you know the full story and have been involved with the negotiations between the club and NRL going back to 2013, you're simply guessing and casting aspersions unnecessarily.

 

[oldmancraigy]

His NRL salary cap or his NFL salary cap ?

Its issues like this that make the whole salary cap debate a mockery

So true.

They need a draft, a soft cap, and a luxury tax

Draft helps the poorer clubs accumlate high end talent.
Soft cap helps the richer clubs splurge cash - but gives parameters on how they can do it
Luxury tax means the richer clubs splurging cash pay fines which are redistributed back to the clubs who stay under that level.

Probably needs a trading system in place as well, allow player trades (but salaries would need to match).
And also, make salary information more readily available. Fans judge a player by their perceived value anyway, might as well let us know their actual value? (after all, it is only fan interest that allows the guys to get paid in the first place)

 

[BoneyBlake17]

The 2nd tier salary cap is a joke it gives any bloke doing well in reserve grade no incentive and aspire to play 1st grade after like round 10 cause most teams not just us are maxed out in the cap.

Look a couple of years ago when penrith couldnt play moylan they lost that game and missed the finals by 1 win.

The nrl said they were reviewing the salary cap yet i dont think did anything on the 2nd tier issue.

There really should be a top 30 especially with injuries and that would stop all this confusion as teams would rarely require to use more than 30 players as the average is around 27-28 i believe per club

 

[Chipmunk]

I get what you're saying but really unless you know the full story and have been involved with the negotiations between the club and NRL going back to 2013, you're simply guessing and casting aspersions unnecessarily.

Probably right, but take the Penrith approach during the previous season. The NRL informed Penrith they couldn't play Moylan due to second tier cap issues... Gus whinged and complained and developed a media campaign on the issue and the NRL eventually gave Penrith an exemption to play Moylan for the rest of the season.

Instead we took the approach of keeping it behind close doors and look where it got us...

 

[Joely01]

Really can't see why everyone is getting so worked up for. It simply appears by all reports our cap was f**ked up to 2014 so the club basically did what they could to field a competitive team in 2014 by using the best available players in our squad. It appears the cap issues are behind us now and we are all good for the coming years.

Exactly. But you have some merkins on here with their agenda driven crap that will spin it anyway they can.

Can you imagine if they didn't try and field competitive teams last year and we finished with the spook again the reactions....

 

[hineyrulz]

Probably right, but take the Penrith approach during the previous season. The NRL informed Penrith they couldn't play Moylan due to second tier cap issues... Gus whinged and complained and developed a media campaign on the issue and the NRL eventually gave Penrith an exemption to play Moylan for the rest of the season.

Instead we took the approach of keeping it behind close doors and look where it got us...

Gus has plenty of sway in the media and the NRL, seriously doubt anyone at Parra has that sort of clout. Therein lies the problem.

 

[Chipmunk]

Gus has plenty of sway in the media and the NRL, seriously doubt anyone at Parra has that sort of clout. Therein lies the problem.

We're one of the most media reported sporting organisations in the country and definitely the biggest in Sydney. You'd be surprised the clout that we would have if we were smarter and began using the media to push our own agendas more.

 

[Gronk]

Probably right, but take the Penrith approach during the previous season. The NRL informed Penrith they couldn't play Moylan due to second tier cap issues... Gus whinged and complained and developed a media campaign on the issue and the NRL eventually gave Penrith an exemption to play Moylan for the rest of the season.

Instead we took the approach of keeping it behind close doors and look where it got us...

Yes but we were in already trouble with the NRL, whereas Penrith was not. Clearly it would be dumb to go public with such a story at the very time that the NRL were considering what to do with us and the mess that we inherited ?

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Exactly. But you have some merkins on here with their agenda driven crap that will spin it anyway they can.

Can you imagine if they didn't try and field competitive teams last year and we finished with the spook again the reactions....

Yep, I remember the complaints with Edwards playing hooker and Paulo not being picked

 

[BennyBoy]

What exactly do you reckon they could have done to rectify the issue during the 2014 cap year? Yes, they could probably have avoided breaching the 2nd tier cap, or breaching it by less. A number of factors affecting our 2nd tier cap derive from initial overcommittment on the 1st tier cap.

Obviously we don't know all the facts, but if we had a heap of back-ended contracts maturing in 2014 that resulted in us being over the 2014 1st tier cap, what are your choices? Simply terminating contracts doesn't help. You can take some steps (such as moving players on and eating only part of their salary), but there's no magic bullet.

What exactly did they plan to happen? As you have just said simply terminating contracts was not going to fix the problem so after doing that why did they then approve the signing of new players ON TOP of that decision. Isn't that what has caused the problem?

Like it or not the bottom line is they chose to sign new players onto the cap even though they must have, or should have, known they would still have to carry the cost of the terminations. The later problem of selecting 2nd tier players is merely a consequence of signing new players on top of the terminations.

They could have avoided the whole situation by simply honoring the f##ked up contracts and allowing them to expire. Sure it would have been a performance hit but it's not like we can go any lower on the table is it.

It was all due to an amateurish attempt at a quick fix which has now blown up in their faces IMO, really is that simple regardless of all the hot air and smoke being blown around here by fanboys. :lol:

What would I have done in their situation? The exact same thing, only diff is I wouldn't be hiding from it now, I'd be proudly claiming credit for finally purging us of all the ridiculous contracts of no hopers.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Yep, I remember the complaints with Edwards playing hooker and Paulo not being picked

Yeh, and a later article from when Peats broke down (June 2 2014, and we were apparently already $80k over the top tier cap:

http://www.smh.com.au//breaking-news-sport/eels-struck-down-by-hooker-crisis-20140602-39els.html

"The Eels are also struggling with their top-tier salary cap which is reportedly $80,000 over, making it difficult to sign a ready-made replacement from a rival club with the NRL unlikely to grant the club any leeway.

Peats' worst fears were confirmed on Sunday, two days after he sustained the injury in the defeat to Penrith, and Arthur admitted it left a big hole in his side.

"He was playing well and is going to be missed; it's hard for him," he said.

"He's a competitor and he was getting some form on the board and being mentioned for Origin."

Arthur watched Kelly play for Wentworthville against Wests Tigers on Sunday in the NSW Cup and ordered coach Brett Cook to move him to hooker in the second half to give him some experience in the role.

Former Roosters and North Queensland utility Ben Jones is also on the Magpies' books and is another option Arthur could explore as well.

"Luke is an option ... but, to be honest, I have no idea - my young fella could get a game!" Arthur said."

 

[Bigfella]

Choice 3 - forfeit the game

That was never an option because choice 1 was far less damaging

The apologists are trotting that one out but it's complete bullshit.

You take a year of pain and be upfront with the fans and tell them.

You don't try to paper over it, making the problem worse, and when it comes out play political games.

I'd rather the NRL put its own board and CEO in altogether to give the coach some sort of chance and to be transparent with the fans.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

The 2nd tier salary cap is a joke it gives any bloke doing well in reserve grade no incentive and aspire to play 1st grade after like round 10 cause most teams not just us are maxed out in the cap.

Look a couple of years ago when penrith couldnt play moylan they lost that game and missed the finals by 1 win.

The nrl said they were reviewing the salary cap yet i dont think did anything on the 2nd tier issue.

There really should be a top 30 especially with injuries and that would stop all this confusion as teams would rarely require to use more than 30 players as the average is around 27-28 i believe per club

I reckon squads should be 35 players not 25 - this will help improve the standard of footy in a few ways. It will give young players more time to develop, not all players are ready by 20, a lot need a few more years but as clubs don't want to waste a spot on a player a few years away, the is player is stuck on a part-time contract. Which doesn't help their development as they can't train full-time while a lot of players need to make a decision whether plugging away for a few more years is worth it while getting paid bugger all. A full-time contract would change that.

It would also help older players stay in the game longer. Clubs don't like keeping older players who may be past their prime but have the ability to be a decent back up. Or the older player may still be good enough but the club has to decide between a potentially good young player or a older player towards the end of their career. Bryce Gibbs is a good example, playing country footy but would still be a very valuable addition to an NRL squad.

Additionally with those mentioned players staying around it would make NSW cup a lot stronger thus increasing the standards of players we have. NSW cup would have more younger players training full-time and sides would have more players with NRL.

 

[BennyBoy]

That was never an option because choice 1 was far less damaging

The apologists are trotting that one out but it's complete bullshit.

You take a year of pain and be upfront with the fans and tell them.

You don't try to paper over it, making the problem worse, and when it comes out play political games.

I'd rather the NRL put its own board and CEO in altogether to give the coach some sort of chance and to be transparent with the fans.

I agree with all of that

 

[hineyrulz]

I agree with all of that

And i agree with you agreeing with BF

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

What exactly did they plan to happen? As you have just said simply terminating contracts was not going to fix the problem so after doing that why did they then approve the signing of new players ON TOP of that decision. Isn't that what has caused the problem?

Like it or not the bottom line is they chose to sign new players onto the cap even though they must have, or should have, known they would still have to carry the cost of the terminations. The later problem of selecting 2nd tier players is merely a consequence of signing new players on top of the terminations. .

Here's the list of new players for 2014:

Evander Cummins (Dragons), Liam Foran (Salford), David Gower (Sea Eagles), Will Hopoate (Mormon mission), Justin Hunt (Rabbitohs), Lee Mossop (Wigan), Corey Norman (Broncos), Nathan Peats (Rabbitohs), Brenden Santi (Tigers), Toby Evans (Panthers), Ben Jones

Of these Hoppa, Mossop, Norman and Peats were signed well back in 2013 (i.e. July at latest) (or 2011 in case of Hoppa) . Cummins, Foran, Evans, Jones were Wenty contracts, never played FG and had no bearing on any cap.

So we are left with Hunt (presumably 2nd tier but maybe not) and Santi (who we shifted back to Wests).

So remind me, what did they do wrong?

 

[Gronk]

That was never an option because choice 1 was far less damaging

The apologists are trotting that one out but it's complete bullshit.

You take a year of pain and be upfront with the fans and tell them.

You don't try to paper over it, making the problem worse, and when it comes out play political games.

I'd rather the NRL put its own board and CEO in altogether to give the coach some sort of chance and to be transparent with the fans.

When has that strategy ever been used successfully ? Never.

That's because clubs who have been in our situation (and there have been many) put on a brave face because they do not want to damage memberships, sponsorships and gate.

Imagine if a CEO said the start of the year that we will not be competitive this year and you can expect us to come stone motherless last. No one would turn up !

 

[hineyrulz]

When has that strategy ever been used successfully ? Never.

That's because clubs who have been in our situation (and there have been many) put on a brave face because they do not want to damage memberships, sponsorships and gate.

Imagine if a CEO said the start of the year that we will not be competitive this year and you can expect us to come stone motherless last. No one would turn up !

Ricky did in round 1 2013 :sarcasm:

 

[Chipmunk]

Here's the list of new players for 2014:

Evander Cummins (Dragons), Liam Foran (Salford), David Gower (Sea Eagles), Will Hopoate (Mormon mission), Justin Hunt (Rabbitohs), Lee Mossop (Wigan), Corey Norman (Broncos), Nathan Peats (Rabbitohs), Brenden Santi (Tigers), Toby Evans (Panthers), Ben Jones

Of these Hoppa, Mossop, Norman and Peats were signed well back in 2013 (i.e. July at latest) (or 2011 in case of Hoppa) . Cummins, Foran, Evans, Jones were Wenty contracts, never played FG and had no bearing on any cap.

So we are left with Hunt (presumably 2nd tier but maybe not) and Santi (who we shifted back to Wests).

So remind me, what did they do wrong?

I note you left out Gower from your argument... Obviously he was signed once BA arrived and contributed heavily to the second tier cap issue last year.