Semi final - Parra v Storm LIVE GAME DAY thread 21/9/19

[Poupou Escobar]

I don’t think Brad is good enough to take us to the promise land. He had his chance yesterday but proved once again that he’s just an average coach. When I say average I’m not meaning anything bad but he’s just normal and will never achieve anything or win any major trophies.

And the way I judge that is if you swap coaches last night and give us Bellamy. We win that game no doubts! We knew what Melbourne were going to throw at us, we Could not stop it because the players still had their head up their arses from last week and it’s the coaches job to get them back down to earth and up for the game week in week out. That’s what good coaches do. We weren’t even in the ball game. We win the toss and then we elect to kick it to them... what the frig?!

On the first set we Brown chucks a dumb pass to Paulo and he drops it. The game ended on the first set as we never got the ball back again and we never had the mental toughness to get back in the game

It’s another failed finals campaign under BA. I’d be signing Flannagan and an assistant ASAP with the view to take over. That’s one coach who has the will to win.

Flanagan had heaps of failed finals campaigns. The year before they won the comp they were smashed 39-0 in Townsville in week two of the finals.

The fact is every year seven of the finals teams lose their last game. Sometimes they get belted. I remember Bellamy's team being on the end of a few hidings in September, especially early on:

2003: Lost 30-0
2004: Lost 43-18
2008: Lost 40-0
2014: Lost 28-4
2015: Lost 32-12
2018: Lost 21-6

But when you make the finals every year it gives the players the opportunity to learn from exposure to these big games. Plus winning consistently means your average players are more likely to get picked in Origin. It all adds up to a stronger team.

That's what we need. To win most of our games each year. Until we do we're not going to fluke a premiership. We need to build to it, just like Bellamy and Flanagan did.

 

[Bandwagon]

The soft underbelly is slowly being removed. Forwards is where it’s at. I’d try and buy someone like Arrow ASAP.

Arrow would be a good pick up, he runs straight and hard, but also has a bit of footwork.

I reckon part of the problem with our pigs is we are too often backing into the line thinking offload first, whilst that is great when it comes off, it's also the easy way out, and teams adjust knowing they're not gonna get smashed head on. Some times i think we just need to forget about that and tuck the ball under our arm and f**king run straight and hard and look to bust the line or get down on the front for a quick play the ball. The likes of Arrow would offer more of that.

 

[Wally21]

The dam refs are at my hotel breakfast. Wasn’t there fault but merkins!!

Did you ask the pocket ref why he stood and watched Grub dog merkin Smith slap Reedy and not match him straight away??
We lost the game, the refs did not figure in the result obviously, but the inconsistency in refereeing has reached a new high point.

 

[Wally21]

Summary of the Mexican trip...
- still proud of the boys and the year even though we shit the bed last night
- hate the SCUM more than ever
- think I hate Cam Smith more than I ever did Wally Lewis
- we actually have some very hot supporters... of the gathering of fans at the Precinct is indicative...

 

[strider]

I know we were a bit shit, but i think melbourne really stepped up too and probably would have beaten every team bar the roosters (maybe them too) last night. They have the gun players who rebound well and step it up when required.

I thought our wingers were portugese chickens last night. Sivo was terrible and Fergo was a deer in the headlights. Our backline moves were pointless, just pass the the next guy to get tackled kind of stuff. Yet they consistently got numbers on us.

Fatigue f**ked us. As has happened so many times. Cant give up that much possession and expect to be competative against a top team at the top of their game.

 

[Bazal]

People always want to blame the obvious. The squad, the players, the coach. It's easy and because it's at least partly true it doesn't require much thought.

But why have we never won a finals game against the Storm? Was it BA and Gutho and Moses fault the four games before the were even at the club?

Why have we won 4 from 14 against them since 2009? Sure, we had a shit squad for much of that time but even when we haven't that record stays pretty similar.

I'm gonna say it. It's time for the club to get over 2009... The scars of that period where we were knocked out by the Storm 3/3, plus the salary cap thing, are so obvious. We lose our heads against the Storm especially.

Not sure what that will take though.

 

[strider]

People always want to blame the obvious. The squad, the players, the coach. It's easy and because it's at least partly true it doesn't require much thought.

But why have we never won a finals game against the Storm? Was it BA and Gutho and Moses fault the four games before the were even at the club?

Why have we won 4 from 14 against them since 2009? Sure, we had a shit squad for much of that time but even when we haven't that record stays pretty similar.

I'm gonna say it. It's time for the club to get over 2009... The scars of that period where we were knocked out by the Storm 3/3, plus the salary cap thing, are so obvious. We lose our heads against the Storm especially.

Not sure what that will take though.

I dont think our players/staff carry that baggage tho. Us fans definitely do and the media dredge shit up cos the fans react to it, but the playing group is completely different.

I dont think the modern footy player carries baggage of past decades - its just their job. They change teams, someone else pays their salary. I would guess most of them wouldnt remember who was in the 2009 GF cos it had zero effect on em at the time.

 

[Bazal]

I dont think our players/staff carry that baggage tho. Us fans definitely do and the media dredge shit up cos the fans react to it, but the playing group is completely different.

I dont think the modern footy player carries baggage of past decades - its just their job. They change teams, someone else pays their salary. I would guess most of them wouldnt remember who was in the 2009 GF cos it had zero effect on em at the time.

Yeah I dunno about baggage but I definitely think they buy into it.

They can say they don't read the papers or whatever as much as they like, but they do. They know all about the hatred and the attitude of the club as a whole certainly seems to be affected by it.

There's gotta be more to it than just coach and players, like the Newcastle hoodoo. Cos it's been exactly the same for years no matter who those coaches and players are.

And the thing is, especially this year, we are the kind of attacking side that can upset the storm except we got done like 100-10 in total.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

In 2017 we played them and lost by a penalty goal. It was anyone's game.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

Stupid f**king football. f**k it. f**k it to hell.

 

[Bandwagon]

We need major changes IMO.

BA needs help and a quality assistant like Flanno would be awesome.

I love gutho as much as the next bloke, but he’s too slow to become elite.

We’re still light on forwards. We need to have some fear factor. We currently have f^*k all.

I’d also still be happy to punt MJ

Gutho is not too slow, sure he's far from the fastest bloke out there, but he's plenty quick enough if he plays to his strengths, and his stats indicate he does.

He's fourth for all run meters for the season, with Tedesco and RTS the full backs ahead of him. And sixth for kick return meters, with all fullbacks ahead of him.

What's even more interesting about those stats is if you look at kick return meters, Gutho's on 1048 and Teddy's on 1475, When you look at all run meters, Gutho's on 4198, and Teddy's on 4531 so when you take Kick return meters away from all run meters you get runs in general play. which leaves Gutho on 3150, and Teddy on 3056. Now given Tedesco's the benchmark this year, I'd reckon if a bloke was too slow to be elite, he wouldn't have near the the runs in general play of that of the guy that is the Elite player in his position in that year.

But as we know, running isn't the only job in attack of a modern full back, ball playing is right up there , and on that score he is the leading full back on LBA's, and is equal with Tedesco on Try assists All those above these two are halve's as you would expect.

Now I aint trying to argue that Gutho is "elite" at this stage of his career, or even indeed that he is fast by comparison, but the guy is plenty good enough to be considered in the top echelon, even if there's a fair jump between him and the likes of Tedesco, He certainly lacks a little in sheer speed, but he's fast enough, knows where his strengths are and plays to them well.

Not to forget, all that in his first year as our first choice fullback.

 

[Bazal]

In 2017 we played them and lost by a penalty goal. It was anyone's game.

And that's definitely a better sample size than 15 games

 

[strider]

Stupid f**king football. f**k it. f**k it to hell.

Not reserve grade tho!

 

[Djay]

Arrow would be a good pick up, he runs straight and hard, but also has a bit of footwork.

I reckon part of the problem with our pigs is we are too often backing into the line thinking offload first, whilst that is great when it comes off, it's also the easy way out, and teams adjust knowing they're not gonna get smashed head on. Some times i think we just need to forget about that and tuck the ball under our arm and f**king run straight and hard and look to bust the line or get down on the front for a quick play the ball. The likes of Arrow would offer more of that.

Spot on.

We lost that game last night outside of the glaringly obvious reasons like a poor start, poor handling and just simply not good enough because of our forwards.

People can twist it and turn it however they like, but our forwards offered no punch through the middle of the field. NAS and Bromwich ran out our little men all night long and ran hard, and you know what? Every time they did they went through the line and punched through us, causing fatigue and allowing gaps to open up. None of our forwards do that, it is like they are so entrenched into whatever it is they are told to do (obviously offload) that people like Paulo, Evans etc aren't bending the line and running hard, they are thinking pass before they even get the ball. It was all too sideways. In the end they were getting smashed and running at there big men, people like Cam Smith barely made over 20 tackles I would imagine last night. How is that possible? We should be running all our traffic at guys like him, Hughes, Munster etc and tiring them out moving them around. We didn't and when you want to start moving the ball sideways and offloading unless you have punch through the middle you get last nights results.

We have a good backline capable of winning a comp I believe, performances like Sivo's last night are learning curves and if he thinks he deserves more money they he has been offered then people like him can go. We gave him a start and he can improve immensely but the nucleus is there but with our forward pack we are a fair way off. RCG is a massive improvement and start but we are still 2 forwards short, we need someone who is a leader and tidies up the middle defensively and we need a hard running back rower. Unless we get them, this half premiership window we have may very well pass us by. I think deep down they know it hence why we are in the market but something needs to change. People like Evans, Alvaro can't be relied upon to do this stuff from the start, it clearly isn't working they can do a job off the bench or as squad players but that is it.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

And that's definitely a better sample size than 15 games

Just as one black swan disproves all-swans-are-white, one good performance disproves we-shit-ourselves-against-the-Storm-every-time.

 

[Bazal]

Just as one black swan disproves all-swans-are-white, one good performance disproves we-shit-ourselves-against-the-Storm-every-time.

If you can quote where I said "EVERY time" that might be correct.

If you can't then it's just classic argue everything Pou

 

[Bazal]

Spot on.

We lost that game last night outside of the glaringly obvious reasons like a poor start, poor handling and just simply not good enough because of our forwards.

People can twist it and turn it however they like, but our forwards offered no punch through the middle of the field. NAS and Bromwich ran out our little men all night long and ran hard, and you know what? Every time they did they went through the line and punched through us, causing fatigue and allowing gaps to open up. None of our forwards do that, it is like they are so entrenched into whatever it is they are told to do (obviously offload) that people like Paulo, Evans etc aren't bending the line and running hard, they are thinking pass before they even get the ball. It was all too sideways. In the end they were getting smashed and running at there big men, people like Cam Smith barely made over 20 tackles I would imagine last night. How is that possible? We should be running all our traffic at guys like him, Hughes, Munster etc and tiring them out moving them around. We didn't and when you want to start moving the ball sideways and offloading unless you have punch through the middle you get last nights results.

We have a good backline capable of winning a comp I believe, performances like Sivo's last night are learning curves and if he thinks he deserves more money they he has been offered then people like him can go. We gave him a start and he can improve immensely but the nucleus is there but with our forward pack we are a fair way off. RCG is a massive improvement and start but we are still 2 forwards short, we need someone who is a leader and tidies up the middle defensively and we need a hard running back rower. Unless we get them, this half premiership window we have may very well pass us by. I think deep down they know it hence why we are in the market but something needs to change. People like Evans, Alvaro can't be relied upon to do this stuff from the start, it clearly isn't working they can do a job off the bench or as squad players but that is it.

No we lost that game because we had six sets with the ball in the first half hour.

How can the forwards provide any punch without the footy? You can't judge them either way, good or bad, without them actually having the ball.

Plus you don't beat Melbourne up the middle anyway.

 

[chiefy1]

People always want to blame the obvious. The squad, the players, the coach. It's easy and because it's at least partly true it doesn't require much thought.

But why have we never won a finals game against the Storm? Was it BA and Gutho and Moses fault the four games before the were even at the club?

Why have we won 4 from 14 against them since 2009? Sure, we had a shit squad for much of that time but even when we haven't that record stays pretty similar.

I'm gonna say it. It's time for the club to get over 2009... The scars of that period where we were knocked out by the Storm 3/3, plus the salary cap thing, are so obvious. We lose our heads against the Storm especially.

Not sure what that will take though.

Anyone that thinks past matches from 1999 or 2016 has a bearing on a team's performance probably thinks that walking under a ladder or breaking mirrors is going to affect their lives lol. Haha What about seeing black cats at night

 

[Bandwagon]

Spot on.

We lost that game last night outside of the glaringly obvious reasons like a poor start, poor handling and just simply not good enough because of our forwards.

People can twist it and turn it however they like, but our forwards offered no punch through the middle of the field. NAS and Bromwich ran out our little men all night long and ran hard, and you know what? Every time they did they went through the line and punched through us, causing fatigue and allowing gaps to open up. None of our forwards do that, it is like they are so entrenched into whatever it is they are told to do (obviously offload) that people like Paulo, Evans etc aren't bending the line and running hard, they are thinking pass before they even get the ball. It was all too sideways. In the end they were getting smashed and running at there big men, people like Cam Smith barely made over 20 tackles I would imagine last night. How is that possible? We should be running all our traffic at guys like him, Hughes, Munster etc and tiring them out moving them around. We didn't and when you want to start moving the ball sideways and offloading unless you have punch through the middle you get last nights results.

We have a good backline capable of winning a comp I believe, performances like Sivo's last night are learning curves and if he thinks he deserves more money they he has been offered then people like him can go. We gave him a start and he can improve immensely but the nucleus is there but with our forward pack we are a fair way off. RCG is a massive improvement and start but we are still 2 forwards short, we need someone who is a leader and tidies up the middle defensively and we need a hard running back rower. Unless we get them, this half premiership window we have may very well pass us by. I think deep down they know it hence why we are in the market but something needs to change. People like Evans, Alvaro can't be relied upon to do this stuff from the start, it clearly isn't working they can do a job off the bench or as squad players but that is it.

I reckon you're right on Alvaro, his performance this year was down, but he improved back to previous form later in the year when he dropped some weight. Which for mine showed that we got it wrong trying to turn him into a player that he is not. He's a very handy workhorse, and I think that's all he'll ever really be.

Evans though I reckon is still a bit of an unknown quantity as far as upside goes, he improved almost immeasurably this season, and he'll be 28 coming into next year, so still has a coupla years in him to lift his game to another level. Next year is crux, if he shows no further improvement, then it's likely he won't in the year following either.

 

[Djay]

No we lost that game because we had six sets with the ball in the first half hour.

How can the forwards provide any punch without the footy? You can't judge them either way, good or bad, without them actually having the ball.

Plus you don't beat Melbourne up the middle anyway.

And who's fault was that? Had Paulo not dropped the ball, Evans not do a stupid shoulder charge, Sivo not dropped the ball coming out of our own we would have enjoyed much more possession. That as our doing.

When they had it they couldn't hold it, knowing full well all week the start as important, that's what they dish up. The whole you can't judge them argument doesn't wash, they were the makers of they're own destiny last night. No respect for the football, and always thinking pass first.

Well going around them didn't work. Like I said, you run at there small men just like they do to us, fatigue them, run them ragged. Holes will appear, it's pretty simple.

Going laterally last night with no punch was why we looked so awful in attack.