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Sharks cap superthread - latest: NRL clears Flanagan to assistant coach from 2020

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,456
You are missing the point. You can't stack teams because of the points system.

But you can unless you limit the length of contracts.

If the points are determined at the start of the contract, there is no prevention from clubs signing young players to excessively long term and higher paid contracts so the points ultimately won't matter.

Teams will be stacked if there is no financial barrier preventing teams from attempting to do so.
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,456
Whilst I understand and agree that people would try, how would they cheat it though?

Players points are calculated on a table available to players, managers and public.

Club point caps area available to all and sundry as well.

So anyone with a calculator can add up and see where a team stands.

Clubs don't get to say how much a player is worth.

Salary cap can go away.

One thing for certain is the current system is rooted.

Is it? We have just had the closest season on record with the top 8 teams all falling within 4 points of each other.

The salary cap has ensured that since the beginning of the NRL we have not had a back to back premiership. We've also managed to not lose any club due to financial issues despite close calls.

The salary cap is achieving exactly what it has intended. Aside from very few large breaches, it has kept teams at an equal level of competition.
 
Messages
161
If a player signs a long term contract; he keeps on that salary for his career. So it is not in the players interests to do that. Likewise, if a team signs a dud to a long term contract, he stays on their list even if he is a dud.

There is still a full audit of player payments in the background, no different than there is today.

But there is transparency so everyone knows what each player is worth in the salary cap and there can be no rorting a points scoring system with a complementary salary cap audit to make sure only those payments signed off on are made.
 
Messages
161
Is it? We have just had the closest season on record with the top 8 teams all falling within 4 points of each other.

The salary cap has ensured that since the beginning of the NRL we have not had a back to back premiership. We've also managed to not lose any club due to financial issues despite close calls.

The salary cap is achieving exactly what it has intended. Aside from very few large breaches, it has kept teams at an equal level of competition.

Virtually every team that has won a premiership over the last 10 years has had a salary cap breach at some stage of that 10 year period so I would suggest, it is not working.
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
6,055
Is it? We have just had the closest season on record with the top 8 teams all falling within 4 points of each other.

The salary cap has ensured that since the beginning of the NRL we have not had a back to back premiership. We've also managed to not lose any club due to financial issues despite close calls.

The salary cap is achieving exactly what it has intended. Aside from very few large breaches, it has kept teams at an equal level of competition.

Yeah, apart from 3 teams at the moment being scrutinized for cap breaches.

All by accidental finds, same as all the other teams that have been caught.

2 teams isn't it that had all or most points stripped and one team having 2 Premierships stripped in the last decade.

All the while teams like the Roosters and Brisbane seem to be able to sign any players that come on the market.

If you think the current system works, great.

I disagree and would like something more open to scrutiny.
 

Generalzod

Immortal
Messages
33,967
Hope this scum club gets taken down. They should have been banned after the peptide scandal. Now salary cap??!! Take their 2016 Premiership off them. NOW!!!

f**k go back and support your manufactured club, the creators of the grapple tackle, Chicken wing tackle, a f**king disgrace to the game of Rugby league...Get rid of them no one cares about Rugby League Victoria, nobody would care if they go.
 
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PJ

First Grade
Messages
6,055
But you can unless you limit the length of contracts.

If the points are determined at the start of the contract, there is no prevention from clubs signing young players to excessively long term and higher paid contracts so the points ultimately won't matter.

Teams will be stacked if there is no financial barrier preventing teams from attempting to do so.

The points aren't determined on the length of the contract though.

Say for example Bronson Xerri who there are high hopes for, starts first grade next year.

He is on the base.

Year after he plays SOO, so he gets an add on for that.

2 years later he cracks 100 games, so another add on.

Sharks have to manage their points so that they either have a buffer or move someone else on.

Same thing as happens under the current format if he has an incentive based contract i.e. makes rep teams gets a bonus and/or upgrade. Makes 100 games upgrade or bonus. Sharks have to manage that under the salary cap, which everyone is completely in the dark about.
 

snickers007

Juniors
Messages
1,643
At the beginning of a players contract with each Club, a set of independent arbitrators with significant knowledge of the game make a decision on how many points an individual player is worth based on the likely money paid and potential of that player.

The number of points a player gets is for the life of his contract (2, 3 or 4 years) so no matter how his form goes, he keeps that point score for the life of his contract, until he signs another one at which time his points score to the salary cap are re-looked at.

So a young player may sign a 3 year deal and be worth 4 points each year but his form might significantly improve over the life of the deal so the Club has got a bargain.

On the other hand, a Club might sign a perceived very good player for 3 years and be worth 7 points but that player doesn't fit in at the Club or his form deteriorates and therefore the Club has a dud.

Each year and with every new contract, these independent arbitrators make a decision on a contract by contract basis.

And when a Club gets up to a number of points; lets say 120 points for this example, it can't trade or buy any more players.

So every Club gets a total of 120 points and every player is evaluated every time the player signs a new contract.

So Munster might be a 4 point player on his current contract but when he signs his new contract, he is a 10 point player for the life of that contract.


I really like the thinking behind this - but it all falls apart at the very start.

There are no "independent arbitrators" who have "significant knowledge of the game".
Anyone, who knows anything about Rugby League has a team. Either a team they played for, coached, supported etc. And those biases would get exploited.


Another issue, is that of consistency. Those allocating points will come and go from the role, meaning that a rookie who was assigned a 3 by judges A, B & C in 2019, would be assigned a 6 by judges D, E & F in 2020 even with the same pedigree.


Speaking of Rookies, how do they get scored? What about those currently playing ISP or overseas? Finding people to assign points who are across all the different levels and competitions would be impossible. And even if you had a hard and fast rule about 'all rookies get a 1', you'd have a team like Penrith signing all their juniors to 5 and 6 year deals, and having 90% of their points still available.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
Self reported to the NRL in March after a internal governance review conducted new management team came into the club. This is how good management operates.

In addition to this, they have freely made all information available to the NRL prior to yesterdays 'breaking story'.
so dd the Warriors and they lost 4 points
 
Messages
161
I'm happy to have a go at it. I reckon I could do a fair job.

People judge diving, gymnastics etc etc.They find a way to get a levelling out of bias in other things. Have 7 people rate a player (who have not previously been involved with that Club so Darren Lockyer couldn't do Brisbane Broncos but could do all other Clubs etc), throw out the highest and lowest and then go with the average.

You assign a few factors to the point scoring inc the players actual contract, his ranking in position, SOO, number of games etc etc.

I reckon you could get a pretty consistent system up and running quite quickly.
 

Generalzod

Immortal
Messages
33,967
I'm happy to have a go at it. I reckon I could do a fair job.

People judge diving, gymnastics etc etc.They find a way to get a levelling out of bias in other things. Have 7 people rate a player (who have not previously been involved with that Club so Darren Lockyer couldn't do Brisbane Broncos but could do all other Clubs etc), throw out the highest and lowest and then go with the average.

You assign a few factors to the point scoring inc the players actual contract, his ranking in position, SOO, number of games etc etc.

I reckon you could get a pretty consistent system up and running quite quickly.
You can also judge greco roman wrestling as well the Melbourne Storm are great at that. lol
 

Mick Benson

Juniors
Messages
205
Doesn't need to.

Clubs can pay over if they want, but if they don't have the points which is clear to everyone then it is clear that they have a problem with getting/keeping that player.
So a player on a particular level of points would be more likely to go to a richer club that can afford to pay more for a player at that level? Sounds to me like it would defeat the point of a salary cap. Not that the current system is working, of course.
 
Messages
161
As soon as a player goes to a new club, his points are re-evaluated and all teams have the same number of points so you can’t just grab every player. There are checks and balances in this idea.
 
Messages
161
That is not like for like as the Storm were forced to include 3rd party deals that the NRL had already signed off on inc Cameron Smiths salary for working on Foxtel.

It was an absolute witch hunt.
 

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