What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Sharks cap superthread - latest: NRL clears Flanagan to assistant coach from 2020

PJ

First Grade
Messages
6,055
Are these for the length of the contracts that are signed?

If not, how do we go about the legal ramifications of terminating a legally binding contract because a players value has increase when he becomes a rep player.

If so, what is preventing the clubs from simply signing 10 year playing contracts knowing that if the players become representative players they will not impact the cap moving forward.

I guess they would treat it similarly to what they do with the cap at the moment, and plan for that i.e. have a buffer built in, or if they look like going over they have to let a player go same as happens now.
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
6,055
So what happens if you a player is worth 80 because has hasn't played rep footy and then is picked for NSW so he turns into a 100. Wouldn't this put the team over the point cap?

I guess they would treat it similarly to what they do with the cap at the moment, and plan for that i.e. have a buffer built in, or if they look like going over they have to let a player go same as happens now.

Your example happens under the existing cap where players get pay bumps based on incentives, and they build that in or release players
 
Messages
161
Are these for the length of the contracts that are signed?

If not, how do we go about the legal ramifications of terminating a legally binding contract because a players value has increase when he becomes a rep player.

If so, what is preventing the clubs from simply signing 10 year playing contracts knowing that if the players become representative players they will not impact the cap moving forward.

The system works hand in glove with the payment of money. If a player is signed to a 10 year contract, it is no different to the current system. They still have to pay them and no Club wants a 10 year contract on their heads. And players don't want that either because they assume they will improve and therefore get more money into their second and third contracts at which point of time, their points score is re-evaluated.
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
6,055
You do know that Gorman is the CEO at manly right.

Keogh probably went back to his million dollar job at event cinemas or whatever

Yep, and what have we heard from him this year?

Not like he was shy of the media at the Sharks and certainly has plenty he could comment on the Eagles.
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,456
The system works hand in glove with the payment of money. If a player is signed to a 10 year contract, it is no different to the current system. They still have to pay them and no Club wants a 10 year contract on their heads. And players don't want that either because they assume they will improve and therefore get more money into their second and third contracts at which point of time, their points score is re-evaluated.

The difference is that teams are not limited with the amount they can offer players under this system.

If you can offer an 18 year old a 10 year $7.5M contact, they'd be dumb to turn it down.

The Salary Cap is not only to level the playing field on talent, but also to prevent teams from spending an absurd amount of money that they can not afford.
 
Messages
161
Agree, so player contracts need to still be lodged with NRL. I am talking about a transparent system that locks in only a certain amount of players per club before you are over the number of points allocated and then can't get any more players. Something out in the open for others to see. Players contracts are still lodged through the NRL, so the NRL still sees how much each Club is spending on players and thus the NRL can save Clubs from themselves.
 
Messages
17,544
Agree, so player contracts need to still be lodged with NRL. I am talking about a transparent system that locks in only a certain amount of players per club before you are over the number of points allocated and then can't get any more players. Something out in the open for others to see. Players contracts are still lodged through the NRL, so the NRL still sees how much each Club is spending on players and thus the NRL can save Clubs from themselves.
How does it stop hidden payments?
 
Messages
161
The teams are still audited which is the same as now for payments etc. But the points scoring is just to align the players to that a team and make it more transparent.
 

Card Shark

Immortal
Messages
32,237
The Sharks should have the book thrown at them. And have their premiership stripped. They did the exact same thing as Melbourne

Either strip the Sharks of their premiership or reinstate Melbourne's 2007 and 2009 premierships. You cant have it both ways.

Whilst I understand your angst, that is a lie, confirmed on a few occasions by the NRL CEO yesterday.

I think he’d have more inside info than yourself.
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,456
Agree, so player contracts need to still be lodged with NRL. I am talking about a transparent system that locks in only a certain amount of players per club before you are over the number of points allocated and then can't get any more players. Something out in the open for others to see. Players contracts are still lodged through the NRL, so the NRL still sees how much each Club is spending on players and thus the NRL can save Clubs from themselves.

So are you proposing that financial management of teams get handed over to the NRL, and thus essentially salary capping them anyway? Or that NRL teams report which will not stop them overpaying players to ensure they can stack teams again via long term contracts and unreported payment.
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
6,055
Ok so still have cheats.

Nothing is cheat proof

Whilst I understand and agree that people would try, how would they cheat it though?

Players points are calculated on a table available to players, managers and public.

Club point caps area available to all and sundry as well.

So anyone with a calculator can add up and see where a team stands.

Clubs don't get to say how much a player is worth.

Salary cap can go away.

One thing for certain is the current system is rooted.
 
Messages
161
The transparency doesn't allow you to cheat. Everybody knows every players worth based on the points allocated to them as their value. So it is totally open and a team has a finite number of points they can use on players.
 

JamesRustle

First Grade
Messages
8,117
Unless supporters of almost every team want their records and premierships wiped, we need to understand that Every Team CHEATS. There is plenty of precedent to inform us of the relative severity of breaches and appropriate punishments.

Here is a table of all known salary cap breaches and these are only the ones who have fessed up (usually because a change in administration) or some third party deal has become a snag and bit the respective team in the backside.

Here they are ranked as a percentage of the salary cap at the time, for instances where the value of the breach is public

1 Canterbury 28% 2002

2 Canterbury 22% 2001


3 New Zealand 27% 2004

4 New Zealand 16% 2005

5 Canterbury 16% 2000

6 Penrith 16% 2000

7 Cronulla 16% 2015, 2016, 2017 TBD

8 Melbourne 15% 2009

9 Melbourne 15% 2008

10 Manly 15% 2013

11 Roosters 15% 2002

12 Manly 15% 2015

13 Roosters 15% 2003

14 Newcastle 15% 2002

15 Canterbury 15% 2004

16 Melbourne 14% 2007

17 Brisbane 14% 2002

19 Brisbane 12% 2007

20 Wests 9% 2010

21 Canberra 9% 2005

22 Parramatta 9% 2014

23 Parramatta 8% 2015

24 Brisbane 8% 2006

25 Parramatta 7% 2016

26 Parramatta 7% 2017

27 Newcastle 7% 1998

28 Newcastle 7% 1999

29 North Queensland 6% 2000

30 Manly 6% 2012




Interesting to note that Newcastle was 7% over the cap in 1998 and 1999, and 5% over in 2002. A total of $725,000. No competition points deducted, no premiership vacated and total fines of $244,000. Maybe in light of your feelings on the topic, the 2001 premiership should be reviewed? Or more particularly the Melbourne Storm premierships should be reinstated as they clearly were no worse or no better than other teams who have cheated the salary cap and won premierships.



Most recently Manly exceeded the cap by $1.5m over 5 years, and Parramatta by $3m over 4 years.
Are you Brian Waldron or Dave Donaghy?
 

Latest posts

Top