Should Australia have a challenge cup?

[Pierced Soul]

This concept would be great for the likes of Newcastle who won't be in the hunt for any silverware for quite some time. It would give the fans a reason to turn up should their team progress to the later stages, thus keping the interest of Rugby League alive.

in the case of the knights, given their wonderful 1 win, 1 draw and a shitlaod of losses, the chances of them progressing anywhere are nil

as stated, the CC is built on tradition, yes tradition has to start somewhere but geographical and cultural differences play a large role. SoO success comes from the lopsidedness of interstate games , and players having to play for the state in which they played as opposed to where they grew up (or sorta grew up in Inglis's case).

The poms love singing at games, sounds great - does it happen here? nope, will it ever? nope.

the top NRL teams smash the top SL teams (look at the past 2 years of extended WCC), what would they do against park footballers? plus i doubt many coaches would be keen on their stars being head highed by some nuffy trying to make a name for himself

 

[PANTHERMIKE]

Painful enough watching Newcastle and St George play, forget watching a bunch of weekend vanilla's playing...

 

[PaulyTom]

A 9s challenge cup would be cool. Make it preseason and including all clubs across the country and Nz.

 

[adamkungl]

Compared to the gulf between Manchester United and a semiprofessional 5th division team?

And the scheduling can be changed. Get rid of pointless stuff like trial games, city country and mid season tests. Expand squad sizes to allow for proper rotation and there you have it.

I give less of a f**k what Man U do with their time than I do about City v Country.

But for what it's worth, yes. The nature of soccer (and Rugby union for that matter) allows for certain tactics to close the gap between teams, to an extent. Rugby League doesn't allow this. Small differences in talent are ruthlessly exposed. Playing a division (and $7M odd worth of talent) down in Aus RL would be a brutal, pointless and boring affair.

 

[adamkungl]

Also lol at some of the people in here who put shit on International Rugby League but then pretend they'd be happy to watch some bush league chumps get flogged by a QLD Cup team who in turn will get flogged by Newcastle. Self delusion at its finest.

 

[carlosthedwarf]

Painful enough watching Newcastle and St George play, forget watching a bunch of weekend vanilla's playing...

I'd enjoy seeing Saints lose to Lakes United

 

[siv]

City Cup formats changed several times since their inception. It started as a knockout, became an entire secondary competition a few times (with just as many games as the premiership a few times).

Because it never had a set structure makes it the perfect vehicle for a new comp.

Structure it however you want. Its the oldest non premiership trophy. Makes sense to me.

Find me a photo of this long lost city cup

 

[madunit]

Find me a photo of this long lost city cup

Why?

 

[magpie4ever]

MU, as a RL historian would know better than me but I'm fairly sure the first games under lights were in the City Cup, maybe around the 1920s.

Still reckon a televised non-NRL competition is the way to go, expansion at the grass roots level with the old city cup (under a new name, obvious because it would include Qld, NSW Country and associate state teams) as the trophy and a reasonable cheque to the winning team.

 

[Lambretta]

Compared to the gulf between Manchester United and a semiprofessional 5th division team?

You do realise that any tournament in which Manchester United are forced to slum playing against 5th division teams, they put out their reserve grade juniors team - so in effect their fourth or fifth level side to make a fair game of it.

This is why Manchester United were beaten by Milton Keynes (third tier team) in the League Cup the other year

But football teams in England are happy to be knocked out of tournaments on which they place no importance.

This is why the FA Cup (the oldest football competition in the World) has basically been dying over the past 20 years.

Manchester United started fielding reserve grade sides as they ranked the League and Champions League far in advance of knock out cups. After Manchester did it, Arsenal, Chelsea et al followed suit.

So once the big boys weren't big boys, winning the Cup became a reduced reward. "We only got it cos no one else gives a f**k"

This indifference to National knock out competitions in football transferred in League to the Challenge Cup, where Super League has far more importance. Especially until the final rounds, where fans actually bother watching as they have a chance of winning something.

Trying to introduce a dying concept into a Country with no history of knock out competitions and a fan base that doesn't give a flying f**k about the concept is utterly moronic.

 

[adamkungl]

Trying to introduce a dying concept into a Country with no history of knock out competitions and a fan base that doesn't give a flying f**k about the concept is utterly moronic.

this is the TL;DR

 

[siv]

Why?

Why not ?

 

[siv]

There is a history of knockout comps. There has been one around for most season pre 1995

First started in 1912 and most years had one from City Cup 1912-37, State Cups and Ampol Cup 40s-60s to the Amco Cup that continued until 1995

Its growing on me for the competition to be called the City Cup

Brings back instant traditions and all except the preseason comp version could be deemed a continuation

 

[madunit]

Why not ?

If you want a picture, go find it yourself.

 

[siv]

If you want a picture, go find it yourself.

Give up so easily - I thought you were up to a challenge

I think everyone would to see what this famous city cup you recommend looked like

 

[madunit]

Give up so easily - I thought you were up to a challenge

I think everyone would to see what this famous city cup you recommend looked like

You are the only person who has asked. So go find a picture yourself. I'm not your servant you lazy merkin

 

[siv]

You are the only person who has asked. So go find a picture yourself. I'm not your servant you lazy merkin

Not lazy - Many have tried - but alas today no one knows what it actually looks like

 

[Captain Apollo]

What some of our UK breathren don't also understand is that most Australian sports don't have "promotion/relegation" in their competitions. As such the support for teams in lower leagues is very much lower than in the UK. For example for a stand alone Intrust Super Premiership game a crowd of 2,000 would be considered well above average, if not outstanding in many cases. hence the level of support for those teams is not that great to start with. Hence most interest would be generated by the NRL teams.

Also, as other have pointed out, where would you fit it in the calendar? Too early in the season and the non-NRL Teams have not even started pre-season training. Too late and you clash with rep games, finals etc. Then add on the NRL players who would not be in favour of increasing their workload, and if they did, they would expect an increase in their financial rewards (i.e. pay) you make it even harder to get going.

Finally the gulf in class would be incredibly big. Until you got some competit6ive games, which would more than likely not happen until you had NRL sides v NRL sides, few people would want to watch floggings. I mean if we have supporter who don't want their club's players playing Origin/Test football because they might get injured, can you imagine how they would react if their club's star player got injured playing a game their club won in a canter?

 

[Perth Red]

What some of our UK breathren don't also understand is that most Australian sports don't have "promotion/relegation" in their competitions. As such the support for teams in lower leagues is very much lower than in the UK. For example for a stand alone Intrust Super Premiership game a crowd of 2,000 would be considered well above average, if not outstanding in many cases. hence the level of support for those teams is not that great to start with. Hence most interest would be generated by the NRL teams.

Also, as other have pointed out, where would you fit it in the calendar? Too early in the season and the non-NRL Teams have not even started pre-season training. Too late and you clash with rep games, finals etc. Then add on the NRL players who would not be in favour of increasing their workload, and if they did, they would expect an increase in their financial rewards (i.e. pay) you make it even harder to get going.

Finally the gulf in class would be incredibly big. Until you got some competit6ive games, which would more than likely not happen until you had NRL sides v NRL sides, few people would want to watch floggings. I mean if we have supporter who don't want their club's players playing Origin/Test football because they might get injured, can you imagine how they would react if their club's star player got injured playing a game their club won in a canter?

This is no different for the CC, it is tiered so amateurs play first rounds, then the semi pros join and eventually the SL clubs. By the time the top division is involved the number of amature/semi pro teams is minimal. Doesn't mean it is pointless for the amateurs, the joy of the cup is in the dream not in the reality. You could start with state based knockout rounds then bring in the NSW/Qlnd cup teams then finally the NRL clubs. Like the CC the reality is the winner will likely come from the top 4 NRL clubs but the dream is there for all. Wouldn't be any point here until we had a decent national second division not linked as a feeder to NRL clubs but if that happened then it could become a reality. Put up a $2million prize and see how serious the NRL clubs take it.

 

[edabomb]

No need to change the NRL schedule

Just use the two trial weekends

Only needs smart scheduling for the glorified trials to be slotted in

If you use a "lotto style draw" on who you play will keep it interesting each round rather than a seeded draw

I'd argue it's not worth doing at all if two weeks of the comp are trials where teams will be resting and rotating their 17. We don't need it as a gimmick - the only way it would be worth doing is if it led to a final with the atmosphere the UK has.