Should Australia have a challenge cup?

[madunit]

Just bring back the City Cup in a unique format.

The last game each side plays against each other in a season will double as a City Cup game.

After the Grand Final, a small finals series where 1 v 4 and 2 v 3 takes place, with the winners playing in the final.

 

[siv]

Round of 16 is played the final week of the trials. Round of 8 is played on Anzac test weekend. Round of 4 is played on Origin Game 1 weekend and the final is played on Origin game 2 or 3 weekend.

NRL season would need to be cut to 24 rounds/22 matches per team. For that reason it will never happen.

No need to change the NRL schedule

Just use the two trial weekends

Only needs smart scheduling for the glorified trials to be slotted in

If you use a "lotto style draw" on who you play will keep it interesting each round rather than a seeded draw

 

[Cumberland Throw]

we cant even organise properly how the NSWRL works, over the past 20 years it has changed 10+ times...

No one knows whos who, jim beam cup or the ron massey or the VB, or the intrust, does it have NRL teams does it not, who is a feeder team who is not, does mounties play or wyong >>>????

NRL are in no shape any way near ready to try this...

 

[madunit]

Ok, here's my revised idea.

Take the result of the last NRL Premiership match each team played against each other.

Knockout by top 8 sides over 4 weeks to determine winner.

So it would mean 3 extra games for the two sides that reach the final, which isn't that big a deal.

Current Ladder under this format is

1 - CAN - 11 wins, 3 losses - 22 Pts, +134
2 - CRO - 10 wins, 1 draw, 3 losses - 21 Pts, +71
3 - MEL - 10 wins, 4 losses, 20 Pts, +128
4 - BRI - 9 wins, 5 losses, 18 Pts, +118
5 - GCT - 8 wins, 1 draw, 5 losses, 17 Pts, +41
6 - NQL - 8 wins, 6 losses, 16 Pts, +59
7 - WST - 8 wins, 6 losses, 16 Pts, +19
8 - CBY - 8 wins, 6 losses, 16 Pts, 0

9 - PEN - 7 wins, 7 losses, 14 Pts, +61
10 - WAR - 7 wins, 7 losses, 14 Pts, -17
11 - SYD - 5 wins, 9 losses, 10 Pts, +13
12 - MAN - 5 wins, 9 losses, 10 Pts, -48
13 - PAR - 5 wins, 8 losses, 10 Pts, -76 *(Still have a game to play this weekend)
14 - SGI - 5 wins, 8 losses, 10 Pts, -98 *(Still have a game to play this weekend)
15 - SOU - 4 wins, 10 losses, 8 Pts, -66
16 - NEW - 0 wins, 14 losses, 0 Pts, -339

So in the knockout
Week 1
A - 1 v 8
B - 3 v 6
C - 4 v 5
D - 2 v 7

Week 2
E - Winner A v Winner B
F - Winner C v Winner D

Week 3
G - Winner E v Winner F

 

[Cumberland Throw]

huh, A challene cup has to heavily feature the minnows... it has no currency without a Brisbane Broncos v Burleigh bears match up, some where along the line

The FA cup pretty much only exists for the minnows

 

[madunit]

I'm not proposing a Challenge Cup, but the resumption of the City Cup, as I think that would be more suitable to the Australian game.

 

[adamkungl]

Indifferent. The gulf between different levels is enormous. The interest for less than top level sport is non existent. And the scheduling is packed with seemingly little appetite to change it.

 

[Lambretta]

So why wouldn't it work in Australia? You say you can't begin to explain why it won't work. but it seems to work fine in league elsewhere.

Except it doesn't. Oh the Final rates well enough, but the rounds leading up to the final are virtually ignored by supporters judging by the banks of empty seats at the ground.

The Challenge Cup used to be adored back in the 70's and 80's but since the Super League era started it's lost it's appeal somewhat.

The Challenge Cup keeps going in England because of the history of it. There is no such history here in Oz. Most people would view it like the Amco Cup etc. It'd have a bit of interest for 5 minutes then everyone would piss and moan about injuries and burn out etc - there's just nothing to be gained.

It could work as a lower grade competition where amateur sides take on reserve grade sides from NRL clubs. That'd give every day players the chance to play against more established players and clubs - but it'd get crowds akin to Rugby Union in NSW (where 11,000 people watched the Grand Final at a suburban ground). Normal Union games get a few hundred watching. There's your interest level.

 

[adamkungl]

Exactly. Top level sport takes 99.999% of the public interest. Local pride in low level teams is basically negligible.
This is a country where a good portion of soccer fans refuse to watch the A-League, instead watching EPL at all hours of the morning.
Nobody cares. Better off cutting the season down a month and investing in internationals than more pointless club fixtures.

 

[moffla]

This concept would be great for the likes of Newcastle who won't be in the hunt for any silverware for quite some time. It would give the fans a reason to turn up should their team progress to the later stages, thus keping the interest of Rugby League alive.

On the negative, one could argue it would burn out the players

 

[RockWheel]

Yeah but generally in Australia sports fan only care about winning the premiership, to the exclusion of pretty much everything else. There's been a lot of different cup style comps throughout the history of the NSWRL/NRL and they've all gone by the wayside because the premiership is basically the only thing of value. Even in Britain, rugby league used to have the championship, Challenge Cup, league cup and county cups; and that's been whittled down to just the Super League and Challenge Cup

 

[Frank Discussion]

Why can't we just expand the 9s? I think it's incredibly short sighted to only run the 9s with NRL teams. Run a qualifying series in the preceeding year for any lower grade/park footy/local comp rep sides who want to enter. Those that qualify get six months to prepare. Invite Super League teams to play in it too. Shake up the draw and voila, a knockout that gives minnows the chance of a giant kill. The shortened format chucks up some genuine upset chances too.

 

[siv]

I'm not proposing a Challenge Cup, but the resumption of the City Cup, as I think that would be more suitable to the Australian game.

1925 the post season City Cup knockout ended when finals football started in 1926

They tried a another post season cup at Cronulla in 1978 for bottom teams but there was no public interest

Midweek cup had a issue as it evolved into a NSWRL only plus Brisbane knockout rather than a 2nd Division / Country reps / Brisbane clubs v Sydney clubs knockout comp

But if planned right it can be a great vehicle to grow bush football

 

[siv]

Except it doesn't. Oh the Final rates well enough, but the rounds leading up to the final are virtually ignored by supporters judging by the banks of empty seats at the ground.

The Challenge Cup used to be adored back in the 70's and 80's but since the Super League era started it's lost it's appeal somewhat.

The Challenge Cup keeps going in England because of the history of it. There is no such history here in Oz. Most people would view it like the Amco Cup etc. It'd have a bit of interest for 5 minutes then everyone would piss and moan about injuries and burn out etc - there's just nothing to be gained.

It could work as a lower grade competition where amateur sides take on reserve grade sides from NRL clubs. That'd give every day players the chance to play against more established players and clubs - but it'd get crowds akin to Rugby Union in NSW (where 11,000 people watched the Grand Final at a suburban ground). Normal Union games get a few hundred watching. There's your interest level.

I think this issue could be solved by scheduling the first two rounds during the trials

Many NRL clubs play matches verses these club already

 

[magpie4ever]

Why not a non-NRL knockout tournament.

RMC, Sydney Shield (one from each club) sides plus Queensland (non-nrl aligned teams) sides plus the country regional (group) sides plus WA, NT, Vic etc (the associated states).

Mid week competition (double headers for the early rounds), offer it to the networks bar Nein. Reckon with their multi-digitial channels 7, 10 or 2, one would take up the offer - rights & sponsorship should cover (travel & accommodation) costs.

This is a way to grow the game below the NRL level.

 

[Simo]

I think the State of Origin is our equivalent of the Challenge Cup in that it provides a seperate tournament to the season proper and whilst not direct knock out the best of 3 ensures every game is essentially critical.

I dont think another tournament would work and Origin provides great mid season entertainment that has huge crowds, ratings and provides relief to the standard first grade games.

If I recall the mid week cup kinda went by the wayside as Origin picked up

 

[adamkungl]

This thread happens every year

 

[madunit]

City Cup formats changed several times since their inception. It started as a knockout, became an entire secondary competition a few times (with just as many games as the premiership a few times).

Because it never had a set structure makes it the perfect vehicle for a new comp.

Structure it however you want. Its the oldest non premiership trophy. Makes sense to me.

 

[BunniesMan]

Indifferent. The gulf between different levels is enormous. The interest for less than top level sport is non existent. And the scheduling is packed with seemingly little appetite to change it.

Compared to the gulf between Manchester United and a semiprofessional 5th division team?

And the scheduling can be changed. Get rid of pointless stuff like trial games, city country and mid season tests. Expand squad sizes to allow for proper rotation and there you have it.

 

[Perth Red]

Why can't we just expand the 9s? I think it's incredibly short sighted to only run the 9s with NRL teams. Run a qualifying series in the preceeding year for any lower grade/park footy/local comp rep sides who want to enter. Those that qualify get six months to prepare. Invite Super League teams to play in it too. Shake up the draw and voila, a knockout that gives minnows the chance of a giant kill. The shortened format chucks up some genuine upset chances too.

Most States have a nines comp or two, maybe they could use them as qualifiers for the non NRL clubs?