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Should Beale replace Bird at right centre?

Should Beale replace Bird at right centre?


  • Total voters
    41
Messages
1,856
Those calling for Bird to play lock have no understanding of the role of that position. You want Bird solely in the middle third of the field and making 40 tackles a game? That'd be great for his attack.

A lock is a third prop, not a second 5/8.
 

Card Shark

Immortal
Messages
32,237
Agree

Once he finds his feet there, he'll be a massive asset for us.

Credit where due, Flanno put him there & Barba to 1.

Suits both players.
 
Messages
4,429
Those calling for Bird to play lock have no understanding of the role of that position. You want Bird solely in the middle third of the field and making 40 tackles a game? That'd be great for his attack.

A lock is a third prop, not a second 5/8.

is that set in stone is it?

missed that memo

thats the problem with rugby league today, everyone plays the same robotic bullshit

heres an idea, how bout use a bit of ingenuity and try something different

monkey see monkey do, the first monkey being melbourne and the second being everyone else
 
Messages
10,862
Where is Bird'sbes position, we have spots thrown out there Fullback, centre, 5/8, lock.

He will take a while to adjust to centre remember he has played what about 30 first grade games, he could be the player who benefits best from origin and comes off bench there
 
Messages
1,856
is that set in stone is it?

missed that memo

thats the problem with rugby league today, everyone plays the same robotic bullshit

heres an idea, how bout use a bit of ingenuity and try something different

monkey see monkey do, the first monkey being melbourne and the second being everyone else

Lock plays in the middle. Middle players (prop, 9, 13) are required to make the bulk of the 240 tackles made on average per game but 13 and 9 aren't in a rotation off the bench so they usually do the bulk of the tackling for the 17. If you don't think that Birds attack will suffer making that many tackles; well I can't help you. I would have thought playing Bird in the centres and finding a way to get Barba, Holmes and Bird all into the backline is "showing ingenuity" in spades.

The Leutele/Beale thing is overblown. Leutele isn't a world beater but he's capable and doing a job. Swapping him for Beale, who I admit offers slightly more, isn't going to dramatically improve anything.
 

Big Bloke

Juniors
Messages
873
Lock plays in the middle. Middle players (prop, 9, 13) are required to make the bulk of the 240 tackles made on average per game but 13 and 9 aren't in a rotation off the bench so they usually do the bulk of the tackling for the 17. If you don't think that Birds attack will suffer making that many tackles; well I can't help you. I would have thought playing Bird in the centres and finding a way to get Barba, Holmes and Bird all into the backline is "showing ingenuity" in spades.

The Leutele/Beale thing is overblown. Leutele isn't a world beater but he's capable and doing a job. Swapping him for Beale, who I admit offers slightly more, isn't going to dramatically improve anything.

Have to disagree with you there mate. Maybe in attack in doesn't make much difference but in defence it will. Every time the ball swept across to Chambers on Monday night you could see the fear on Ricky's face and it was only through help of his inside men and Feki to a lesser degree that they were able to contain them. Ennis was constantly talking to the two of them to give them some direction on what to do. Beale is much stronger defensively and doesn't need to be babysat. The strongest backline should be:

Barba
Feki
Beale
Bird
Holmes

and perhaps when Gagan has proved he can stay injury free long term then he could replace Feki. That backline has plenty of points in it and won't let much through.
 
Messages
4,429
Lock plays in the middle. Middle players (prop, 9, 13) are required to make the bulk of the 240 tackles made on average per game but 13 and 9 aren't in a rotation off the bench so they usually do the bulk of the tackling for the 17. If you don't think that Birds attack will suffer making that many tackles; well I can't help you. I would have thought playing Bird in the centres and finding a way to get Barba, Holmes and Bird all into the backline is "showing ingenuity" in spades.

The Leutele/Beale thing is overblown. Leutele isn't a world beater but he's capable and doing a job. Swapping him for Beale, who I admit offers slightly more, isn't going to dramatically improve anything.

and thats fine, i hear what you say but that doesnt mean bird cant play lock in the traditional sense, let him pop up where ever he needs to, to create opportunity

Defensive habits will change when attacking habits do, and not before

thats like saying all soccer teams have to play one formation only, theyd f**king laugh at you

this dividing the field into thirds shit and anchoring players is about as boring as it gets
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,856
and thats fine, i hear what you say but that doesnt mean bird cant play lock in the traditional sense, let him pop up where ever he needs to, to create opportunity

Defensive habits will change when attacking habits do, and not before

thats like saying all soccer teams have to play one formation only, theyd f**king laugh at you

this dividing the field into thirds shit and anchoring players is about as boring as it gets

There is no "lock in the traditional sense that bobs up wherever he needs to". That sort of design just doesn't cut it in first grade. The make up of a first grade team is a delicate balance and any coach who just chucks a player in and says "go where you need to" won't last two seconds because the team would be found out. Every selection needs to be made with careful consideration to yhe defensive structure of the team. Even Flano who cops plenty for being a dumbo wouldn't and shouldn't think this way and we should be praising, not criticising him for it.

The first requirement of a first grade team is to make 240 tackles minimum. Most of the traffic goes up the middle so those tackles are made by the middle players. Do you have a better system? Because if you do you might want to get hold of a junior team and have a go, then work your way up the ranks with this amazing laissez faire style.
 

millersnose

Post Whore
Messages
65,223
its oh so easy in armchair coach world.....

'just do something different...anything...no matter how f**king stoopid"
 
Messages
4,429
There is no "lock in the traditional sense that bobs up wherever he needs to". That sort of design just doesn't cut it in first grade. The make up of a first grade team is a delicate balance and any coach who just chucks a player in and says "go where you need to" won't last two seconds because the team would be found out. Every selection needs to be made with careful consideration to yhe defensive structure of the team. Even Flano who cops plenty for being a dumbo wouldn't and shouldn't think this way and we should be praising, not criticising him for it.

The first requirement of a first grade team is to make 240 tackles minimum. Most of the traffic goes up the middle so those tackles are made by the middle players. Do you have a better system? Because if you do you might want to get hold of a junior team and have a go, then work your way up the ranks with this amazing laissez faire style.

Tell the walker brothers that

cookie cutter football thanks for the definition

so explain to me why a player cant play on both sides of the field or the middle? if there is an opportunity to?

why do they have to make minimum 240 tackles?

thats a bit of a weird target considering tackling is a reactive event

if the game plan from the offensive team is to slow the tempo down then less tackles will be made in the same period of time

so what happens when they dont hit 240?

do they do laps of the oval at training or where pink jerseys or something?
 
Messages
1,856
The Walker brothers don't have a gig in the NRL despite offering themselves to any club with a vacancy. Ipswich are also running 10th. I quite enjoy their style but it is totally unproven at NRL level.

If you can't grasp the concept that 240 odd tackles need to be made in a game then I'm not getting into a debate with you.
 

Poolshark

Juniors
Messages
178
Tell the walker brothers that

cookie cutter football thanks for the definition

so explain to me why a player cant play on both sides of the field or the middle? if there is an opportunity to?

why do they have to make minimum 240 tackles?

thats a bit of a weird target considering tackling is a reactive event

if the game plan from the offensive team is to slow the tempo down then less tackles will be made in the same period of time

so what happens when they dont hit 240?

do they do laps of the oval at training or where pink jerseys or something
?

Seems like a fair enough punishment if they don't reach their targets :lol:
 
Messages
4,429
The Walker brothers don't have a gig in the NRL despite offering themselves to any club with a vacancy. Ipswich are also running 10th. I quite enjoy their style but it is totally unproven at NRL level.

If you can't grasp the concept that 240 odd tackles need to be made in a game then I'm not getting into a debate with you.

its called player drain mate

bellamy was like the walker brothers too once upon a time

im not debating anything with you, im an armchair coach, as we all are, so explain it to me instead of huffing and puffing

or dont
 
Messages
1,856
its called player drain mate

bellamy was like the walker brothers too once upon a time

im not debating anything with you, im an armchair coach, as we all are, so explain it to me instead of huffing and puffing

or dont

Ok sorry for getting cranky.

The first thing a coach of an NRL team will do when picking his team is say right, we need to make 240 tackles in the game (of course it will be less if you play well and more if you are rubbish or unlucky) and he will allocate them according to position. As I said earlier because the majority of the traffic goes up the middle the coach needs to be sure that his middles (8,9,10,13) are up to the task and there is sufficient cover on the bench for the shortfall. When I say up to the task I mean; can they handle the line speed and wrestle AND do everything else required on the field; because if you lose the yardage sets through the middle you have lost the game. It's fundamentals and it's also why Gallen is so important to our team, one because he is so reliable in the wrestle and particularly as he offsets Fifita who isn't a great defensive prop but we cover that because he's so effective in attack. It's also why Heighno is one of the first picked. You won't see Bird at 13 because it's too taxing a position defensively, I'm sure he can make the tackles but it will blunt his attack.
Move him to an edge and let him do what he does best with ball in hand.

It's got noting to do with being robotic either. If you can't contain the opposition in the middle of the field you don't win. The Walker brothers sides actually exploited weak middle defence with their constant turning the ball under on an A line fatiguing reggies level players who don't have the aerobic capacity to absorb that much "shutting the gate" which is code for closing the gap from the inside.
 

Windy70

Juniors
Messages
2,276
Good read Frank. My Brother in law started as a player, then a coach and now a recruitment / development role. I have heard from him many of the "standard" stuff in your post.

All makes sense.
 
Messages
4,429
Ok sorry for getting cranky.

The first thing a coach of an NRL team will do when picking his team is say right, we need to make 240 tackles in the game (of course it will be less if you play well and more if you are rubbish or unlucky) and he will allocate them according to position. As I said earlier because the majority of the traffic goes up the middle the coach needs to be sure that his middles (8,9,10,13) are up to the task and there is sufficient cover on the bench for the shortfall. When I say up to the task I mean; can they handle the line speed and wrestle AND do everything else required on the field; because if you lose the yardage sets through the middle you have lost the game. It's fundamentals and it's also why Gallen is so important to our team, one because he is so reliable in the wrestle and particularly as he offsets Fifita who isn't a great defensive prop but we cover that because he's so effective in attack. It's also why Heighno is one of the first picked. You won't see Bird at 13 because it's too taxing a position defensively, I'm sure he can make the tackles but it will blunt his attack.
Move him to an edge and let him do what he does best with ball in hand.

It's got noting to do with being robotic either. If you can't contain the opposition in the middle of the field you don't win. The Walker brothers sides actually exploited weak middle defense with their constant turning the ball under on an A line fatiguing reggies level players who don't have the aerobic capacity to absorb that much "shutting the gate" which is code for closing the gap from the inside.

no problem at all, you come at with me with a rise and you'll get exactly that in return

and appreciate the informative response back

now my rebuttal

if i'm the opposing coach to a team playing yours, and I tell my forwards to take the ball up either edge, like the old days to open it up for the backs, how will your defensive pattern react to that?

keeping in mind your halves are on either edge and and my big boppers are targeting them? my forwards arent playing through the middle third, they are playing at the edges

and then my team sets for an old school back line movement, half 5/8 and centres all on the same side

i pretty confident you will have to adjust your defensive line to accommodate, with width and depth across the field your forwards are very susceptible to an incorrect defensive read and are unlikely to be able able to match the speed or agility of the players running at them, most likely inside or outside centre

this is my whole point, yes what you say might be correct, now, but that is because the attack has become predictable so you can plan for it accordingly

the play book in league is identical in nearly every club, and limited, you have those who can pull it off like clock work and those who look f**king geniused attempting it

the coach has become too prominent in the modern era of league, guys like langer, cliff lyons, terry lamb etc dont exist anymore because the natural instinct to play what they see is coached out of them in exchange for "structures" which are repeatable, coachable, predicatable and most importantly boring as f**k

in regard to bird, play him at lock on both sides, give him command to rove

defensively bring wade graham into the middle

he likes the front on contact big hits anyhow and he is f**king good at it
 

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