Signing news

[possm]

Mann should have been tested in the halves during his stint in the Cutters and in first grade once the Club decided not to extend Benji's contract. Now we have no idea of Man's suitability.

With a few exciting and speedy outside backs coming through, it would be ideal to free up a wing spot to easy them in to first grade.

 

[Sigurd]

Sigh...

If I could type slowly, I would. I'll try again to spell it out.

I rate Williams very highly compared to his current status as a fringe/backup half.
I don't rate Widdop highly compared to his current status as an international half.
However, comparing the two together I would take Widdop. It's not because he is an international, it's because he is capable of being a better player than what Williams has shown.

So if Widdop ceases being an international half this winter, as seems likely given Bennett is pushing for Canberra's non-international 5/8, Blake Austin and Newcastles non-international 1/2 Trent Hodskinson, to make themselves available for England, you will rate Widdop "very highly"? And as being an international is so important and automatically places one above non internationals, wouldn't that mean Widdop is among the top 3 or 4 halves in the competition? Better than all the halves of the top 8 teams except Cronk. Is that right?

I didn't complain that you didn't ask me, I called bullshit on your claim that you had asked me.
And FTR, it's a silly notion, he doesn't have anything close to the skillset required.
He is a winger. Hopefully next year, with a decent coach who knows his way around an attacking structure and defensive strategy, we will see him go back to being a very good winger. If not, it will be a crying shame, but next year will then be his last in the Red V.

A silly notion? Nightingale doesn't have close to the skillset required? Ok, so be kind as to enlighten me as to exactly what the skillset for a 5/8 is or should be? Is the ability to tackle front on part of the required skillset? How about the ability to run at speed, draw (no Old Timer. That doesn't mean to get out a pencil and notepad) and opposition defender and pass the ball?

 

[blacksafake]

So if Widdop ceases being an international half this winter, as seems likely given Bennett is pushing for Canberra's non-international 5/8, Blake Austin and Newcastles non-international 1/2 Trent Hodskinson, to make themselves available for England, you will rate Widdop "very highly"? And as being an international is so important and automatically places one above non internationals, wouldn't that mean Widdop is among the top 3 or 4 halves in the competition? Better than all the halves of the top 8 teams except Cronk. Is that right?


A silly notion? Nightingale doesn't have close to the skillset required? Ok, so be kind as to enlighten me as to exactly what the skillset for a 5/8 is or should be? Is the ability to tackle front on part of the required skillset? How about the ability to run at speed, draw (no Old Timer. That doesn't mean to get out a pencil and notepad) and opposition defender and pass the ball?

Dear oh dear you've never played the game have you.You think the 5/8 only has to tackle head on, run & pass at speed.

 

[BennyV]

Seems you're still not getting it, so not gunna bother.

I must say, you are much more persistent in this form. You used to run away from arguments, now it seems you just pay dumb until the other person gets over it!

 

[borat]

The definition of stupidity = me continually opening this thread on the slim chance there may actually be signing news....and not what I fully expect to be more of this shit fight.

 

[nortyboi3]

With no disrespect, anyone thinking Gypsy could play 5/8 or is a better 5/8 then Widdop know very little about the modern day game.
Gypsy is a club legend, one of the very few players in the league who is a one club man (cross fingers), we need to keep the man himself at Wing or fullback when Duges is out. At worst, give him a utility spot on the bench but Dragons suit a big man bench so that probably isn't an option.
Do we really want to tarnish the man's reputation by giving him ago at 5/8 when he has built a successful career on the edge or at the back?

 

[Sigurd]

Seems you're still not getting it, so not gunna bother.

I must say, you are much more persistent in this form. You used to run away from arguments, now it seems you just pay dumb until the other person gets over it!

WTF are you raving about now??? The questions are perfectly legitimate!!! If being an international automatically places you on some kind of "higher plain" than non-internationals, couldn't be say that Gareth Widdop is better than all the top 8 halves other than Cronk and Thurston and has Morgan played for Australia or Milford for Samoa?

What, in your opinion is skill-set required for a 5/8?

With no disrespect, anyone thinking Gypsy could play 5/8 or is a better 5/8 then Widdop know very little about the modern day game.
Gypsy is a club legend, one of the very few players in the league who is a one club man (cross fingers), we need to keep the man himself at Wing or fullback when Duges is out. At worst, give him a utility spot on the bench but Dragons suit a big man bench so that probably isn't an option.
Do we really want to tarnish the man's reputation by giving him ago at 5/8 when he has built a successful career on the edge or at the back?

I also dismissed ("Gareth67's") idea at first but after thinking about it a little, it seemed reasonable. At least worth a try. I would have thought the most important prerequisite for 5/8 is the ability to run at speed, draw (a) defender(s) and pass. Something which Widdop can't do but something which Nightingale has no trouble doing.

Dear oh dear you've never played the game have you.You think the 5/8 only has to tackle head on, run & pass at speed.

Hmmmm ok. If you cared to look at the exchange before giving your opinion on it you would see that I stated Nightingale has areas of his game to work on before he would make "a good" 5/8 but that running, drawing a defender and passing and tackling head on are a good start.

 

[nortyboi3]

I also dismissed ("Gareth67's") the idea at first but after thinking about it a little, it seemed reasonable. At least worth a try. I would have thought the most important prerequisite for 5/8 is the ability to run at speed, draw (a) defender(s) and pass. Something which Widdop can't do but something which Nightingale has no trouble doing.

You're correct but something that can't be taught is creativity. Nightingale to be fair probably hasn't needed to able to create opportunities since being on the Wing but to an extent at Fullback where he plays more of a sweeping role compared to ball playing role. Which is essentially what Widdop is "supposed" to have. He also lacks an effective kicking game. I'd be looking more in the direction of giving Drew, Jai or looking elsewhere for a solution.

*Saying that i think persist with Widdop and look for someone to complement his playing style.

 

[Sigurd]

You're correct but something that can't be taught is creativity. Nightingale to be fair probably hasn't needed to able to create opportunities since being on the Wing but to an extent at Fullback where he plays more of a sweeping role compared to ball playing role. Which is essentially what Widdop is "supposed" to have. He also lacks an effective kicking game. I'd be looking more in the direction of giving Drew, Jai or looking elsewhere for a solution.

Fair enough. My main bone of contention is that he would be better than what we have now, not that he would be "good" in that position. Though I wouldn't rule out the possibility either.

Furthermore, I feel strongly that if we go into round 1 next year with Hutchinson and Widdop in the halves, we are in huge trouble.

 

[nortyboi3]

Fair enough. My main bone of contention is that he would be better than what we have now, not that he would be "good" in that position. Though I wouldn't rule out the possibility either.

Furthermore, I feel strongly that if we go into round 1 next year with Hutchinson and Widdop in the halves, we are in huge trouble.

Hutchinson definitely deserves ago but from the Parramatta game the combination looks very lackluster. In all fairness it was their first game as a pairing this season and it looks likely that they'll partner each other for the start of next season. I hope I'm proved wrong though!

 

[BringTheNoise]

Unlike Widdop and Marshall, Hutchison plays very square. With a decent hooker this should straight away start to give more room to Widdop and in turn Dugan, Milne, Nightingale etc.

For mine however a Hutchison/Widdop combo still looks a lot like 2 5/8s. I really think we need a genuine halfback to have any chance of making Widdop look effective.

 

[hazzbeen]

Unlike Widdop and Marshall, Hutchison plays very square. With a decent hooker this should straight away start to give more room to Widdop and in turn Dugan, Milne, Nightingale etc.

For mine however a Hutchison/Widdop combo still looks a lot like 2 5/8s. I really think we need a genuine halfback to have any chance of making Widdop look effective.

Agree . The last genuine number 7 we had was M Head ( not sure if this is right ) correct me if Im wrong ...

 

[Sigurd]

Unlike Widdop and Marshall, Hutchison plays very square. With a decent hooker this should straight away start to give more room to Widdop and in turn Dugan, Milne, Nightingale etc.

For mine however a Hutchison/Widdop combo still looks a lot like 2 5/8s. I really think we need a genuine halfback to have any chance of making Widdop look effective.

As Widdop is "a marquee playmaker" couldn't he be the senior partner and take responsibility for helping out the halfback rather than have the halfback carry Widdop and take the fall for the halves being s**t when unable? This has been going on for 3 f**king years now and there is still no sign it's going to end before next season is also a disaster. I mean, couldn't Widdop play a game that compliments the halfback rather than continuously whinging that the halfback doesn't suit Widdop's game?

And what about the ability, or lack-thereof to run at speed, draw a defender and pass the ball? For a 5/8 I would have thought that ability absolutely essential.

 

[blacksafake]

As Widdop is "a marquee playmaker" couldn't he be the senior partner and take responsibility for helping out the halfback rather than have the halfback carry Widdop and take the fall for the halves being s**t when unable? This has been going on for 3 f**king years now and there is still no sign it's going to end before next season is also a disaster. I mean, couldn't Widdop play a game that compliments the halfback rather than continuously whinging that the halfback doesn't suit Widdop's game?

And what about the ability, or lack-thereof to run at speed, draw a defender and pass the ball? For a 5/8 I would have thought that ability absolutely essential.

The issue with the halves/playmakers in all clubs is finding someone to compliment the main playmaker. Whether people like it or not Widdop was signed to be the main playmaker & it is then up to the coach to find a partner to complement him or at least devise a game plan to suit. Having Benji as a foil was never going to work being a running 5/8 himself so it was up to McGregor to fix the situation. The teams performances over the last few years show that this situation has never been rectified which is a big fail on McGregors part. You only have to look at the cowboys & see how many combinations in the halves they had trying to find someone to help JT. JT was at times frustrated because of the lack of support on regular basis until Morgan came along. JT was not the one to be asked to change the way that he plays, Instead the coach found a suitable partner to compliment him.I am not for one moment suggesting(before you interpret it) that Widdop is in the same class as the best player in the world. What i am suggesting is as the main player rightly or wrongly it is up to the coach to recruit the right person & unfortunately Benji was never going to be it.Once the new (hopefully) coach is appointed & makes these decisions i think Widdop deserves to be judged then.

 

[BringTheNoise]

Agree . The last genuine number 7 we had was M Head ( not sure if this is right ) correct me if Im wrong ...

Whilst Hornby started at #1 I would personally argue he was a very good halfback. In 2006 he was picked in the Tri-Nations squad as Thurston's understudy. Ricky Stuart actually dropped Thurston for one game in favour of Hornby (although Thurston was picked for the next game).

 

[Sigurd]

The issue with the halves/playmakers in all clubs is finding someone to compliment the main playmaker. Whether people like it or not Widdop was signed to be the main playmaker & it is then up to the coach to find a partner to complement him or at least devise a game plan to suit. Having Benji as a foil was never going to work being a running 5/8 himself so it was up to McGregor to fix the situation. The teams performances over the last few years show that this situation has never been rectified which is a big fail on McGregors part. You only have to look at the cowboys & see how many combinations in the halves they had trying to find someone to help JT. JT was at times frustrated because of the lack of support on regular basis until Morgan came along. JT was not the one to be asked to change the way that he plays, Instead the coach found a suitable partner to compliment him.I am not for one moment suggesting(before you interpret it) that Widdop is in the same class as the best player in the world. What i am suggesting is as the main player rightly or wrongly it is up to the coach to recruit the right person & unfortunately Benji was never going to be it.Once the new (hopefully) coach is appointed & makes these decisions i think Widdop deserves to be judged then.

FFS, this is like a surrealistic nightmare....... Widdop has been tried with Sam Williams, Marshall, McCrone, Hutchinson and I believe also has a few games with Kyle Stanley or Drinkwater or Crook or another player sent to the halfback graveyard by Widdop. He is has been f**king terrible with every one of them.

As you stated, he is supposed to be the marquee playmaker. So at what point can we stop blaming the halfback, or at least stop saying "Widdop will come good with a decent halfback" before getting rid of Widdop himself???

Thurston was a superstar before and after Morgan. Widdop was rubbish before and after Marshall.

 

[Carlton]

FFS, this is like a surrealistic nightmare....... Widdop has been tried with Sam Williams, Marshall, McCrone, Hutchinson and I believe also has a few games with Kyle Stanley or Drinkwater or Crook or another player sent to the halfback graveyard by Widdop. He is has been f**king terrible with every one of them.

As you stated, he is supposed to be the marquee playmaker. So at what point can we stop blaming the halfback, or at least stop saying "Widdop will come good with a decent halfback" before getting rid of Widdop himself???

Thurston was a superstar before and after Morgan. Widdop was rubbish before and after Marshall.

I don't agree with how Sigurd has tried to make his point at times but, I do agree with what he is saying here.

Widdop has not shown he is a playmaker, and before someone puts forward a game where he played well, a playmaker has to be the go to man on a regular basis. Look at Thurston, you need your playmaker to provide some creativity. Sure they need to be able to run the set plays but they also need to be able to read whats in front of them and take advantage.

I would love to see a creative dummy half ( and if a comment in one of the other threads is true that the club don't want Segeyaro, I'm stunned). A solid half who can kick and direct the forwards and move the team around the park. A 5/8 who can perform some of the same role as the half but has a running game and is creative and can read the game, especially broken defence. Milne and another genuine centre with size and speed. Then use Dugan as a hard running fullback.

 

[BringTheNoise]

I don't agree with how Sigurd has tried to make his point at times but, I do agree with what he is saying here.

Widdop has not shown he is a playmaker, and before someone puts forward a game where he played well, a playmaker has to be the go to man on a regular basis. Look at Thurston, you need your playmaker to provide some creativity. Sure they need to be able to run the set plays but they also need to be able to read whats in front of them and take advantage.

I would love to see a creative dummy half ( and if a comment in one of the other threads is true that the club don't want Segeyaro, I'm stunned). A solid half who can kick and direct the forwards and move the team around the park. A 5/8 who can perform some of the same role as the half but has a running game and is creative and can read the game, especially broken defence. Milne and another genuine centre with size and speed. Then use Dugan as a hard running fullback.

No-one is arguing with the multiple username. Many posters have expressed dissatisfaction with Widdop. We're speculating on possible signings and the halves combination going forward given that the incumbent halfback has been released and the 5/8th is all but guaranteed to be starting in the 6 again next year.

 

[Carlton]

No-one is arguing with the multiple username. Many posters have expressed dissatisfaction with Widdop. We're speculating on possible signings and the halves combination going forward given that the incumbent halfback has been released and the 5/8th is all but guaranteed to be starting in the 6 again next year.

What I was trying to get at is you can put on a new tyre, patch the hole in the tube but it won't make any difference if the axle is broken. For me its hard to talk about just new signings when we need to be looking at the spine as a whole. Agreed it looks like Widdop is going to be the starting 5/8 next year.

I would like to see a hooker and half signed that don't necessarily plug gaps in Widdop's skill set but are long term options, if they are available, with the idea that the 5/8 will be addressed for 2018. So for me I'd like to see Segeyaro now and an Adam Reynolds type half for example. Who exactly I don't know.

 

[Sigurd]

No-one is arguing with the multiple username. Many posters have expressed dissatisfaction with Widdop. We're speculating on possible signings and the halves combination going forward given that the incumbent halfback has been released and the 5/8th is all but guaranteed to be starting in the 6 again next year.

I don't have multiple usernames, if you are referring to me. Agree, if McGregor isn't replaced Widdop will start at 5/8 next year and the team will be rubbish. However, if a new at least semi-competent coach takes over and watches random games from the past 3 years, he will quickly come to the conclusion that like the club with McGregor, even though he is still under contract the team can't afford not to get rid of Widdop. Even if it means paying the full value of his contract and have him playing in the NSW Cup.