Signings for 2020 and future looking team

[Old Timer]

So, let's say the salary cap is halved to $5.5m (hypothetical), how would you distribute it amongst the 30 in the playing group?

Easy
Ask if they can drive a forklift or if they want to pick up a couple of hundred garbage cans a day or play footy for $125k for the mediocre and $225k for the best of them.
If it is an even split of 15 x $125k & 15 x $225k = $5.25m
You can tinker some a little bit down and some a little bit up but the basic idea seams about right to me.
If they think they can earn more doing something else then by all means don't let the door hit you in the arse as you leave.
If someone who is pretty average can earn $1.25m over ten years he'll be >$500k in front of the average factory worker.
Life choices so let them choose as I am sure there will be plenty who will replace them if given half a chance.

 

[True_Believer]

Easy
Ask if they can drive a forklift or if they want to pick up a couple of hundred garbage cans a day or play footy for $125k for the mediocre and $225k for the best of them.
If it is an even split of 15 x $125k & 15 x $225k = $5.25m
You can tinker some a little bit down and some a little bit up but the basic idea seams about right to me.
If they think they can earn more doing something else then by all means don't let the door hit you in the arse as you leave.
If someone who is pretty average can earn $1.25m over ten years he'll be >$500k in front of the average factory worker.
Life choices so let them choose as I am sure there will be plenty who will replace them if given half a chance.

Great in theory. Won't work though. Assuming SL and Union survive and can pay more money, they'll suck the talent from the game. We'll be left with the dregs and a pretty uninspiring competition.

 

[Old Timer]

Great in theory. Won't work though. Assuming SL and Union survive and can pay more money, they'll suck the talent from the game. We'll be left with the dregs and a pretty uninspiring competition.

SL will be unattractive to many and after this Coronavirus pandemic settles down I suggest that many will not want to be overseas anytime soon regardless of money.
Union is a bigger basket case than league (well done Raelene Castle) and the already great influx of Polynesian players in our teams makes it difficult for more than a few of our very best / elite to be even considered. The Super Rugby competition will also be at greater risk due to its international nature and the inherent health risks involved with that.
I suspect many team sports will have reality checks in to salaries in light of the economic disaster that accompanies the virus.
I think not only will it work it will be implemented because the clubs have no options in tough economic circumstances and players that want to lead that lifestyle of playing sport for a leaving will continue to do so.

 

[Dragon David]

SL will be unattractive to many and after this Coronavirus pandemic settles down I suggest that many will not want to be overseas anytime soon regardless of money.
Union is a bigger basket case than league (well done Raelene Castle) and the already great influx of Polynesian players in our teams makes it difficult for more than a few of our very best / elite to be even considered. The Super Rugby competition will also be at greater risk due to its international nature and the inherent health risks involved with that.
I suspect many team sports will have reality checks in to salaries in light of the economic disaster that accompanies the virus.
I think not only will it work it will be implemented because the clubs have no options in tough economic circumstances and players that want to lead that lifestyle of playing sport for a leaving will continue to do so.

I think that given the significant downturn in the economy following the covid 19 (once cleared throughout the world), those people who have been put off or stood down from work will be anxious to get work asap to get a steady income coming in. Similarly, those who are playing professional sport will want games to be played so that they too can be paid. Lots will play to maintain fitness and continue mateships and most of all to have fun as it should be.

There will be stacks of pros having to take pay cuts and there will be others who will get lesser payments which then might require them to get other work - just like the old days when our league players were paid a low amount and had to do work such as being cellermen for the clubs or garbo men to supplement their pays. I don't know if it will get to that but who knows, money is going to be very tight.

 

[Old Timer]

I think that given the significant downturn in the economy following the covid 19 (once cleared throughout the world), those people who have been put off or stood down from work will be anxious to get work asap to get a steady income coming in. Similarly, those who are playing professional sport will want games to be played so that they too can be paid. Lots will play to maintain fitness and continue mateships and most of all to have fun as it should be.

There will be stacks of pros having to take pay cuts and there will be others who will get lesser payments which then might require them to get other work - just like the old days when our league players were paid a low amount and had to do work such as being cellermen for the clubs or garbo men to supplement their pays. I don't know if it will get to that but who knows, money is going to be very tight.

Many players in the CC would love to chance their hand at NRL but know the value of a $ so keep their day time jobs and play good footy in the lower grade and avoid the risk of not making a decent earn.
If the elite decided to walk a way because of unwillingness to accept the fact they are overpaid gladiators then the comp will go back to what we had years ago and before long the likes of Gasnier, Proven, Raper, Langlands, Irvine, Beetson, Sattler, Coote will again grace the footy fields and excite the fans because in the end Rugby League is the working mans game and we have always found a way to have heroes in our sport.
No disrespect but JAC is indeed a fast winger but so were Irvine, King, Cleary, Fahey, Bousted, Guru but to name a few and they brought the crowds to their feet for a lot less money and in fact I would rate almost all of them better all-round footballers (sorry "mother" maybe not you so much).
None of the overpaid wingers of today will ever get near Irvine's record despite all the hype around them.
In the end if they don't want to play the game f**k off and I am happy to cheer for the next bloke that pulls the jersey on for the right reasons.

 

[Dragon David]

Many players in the CC would love to chance their hand at NRL but know the value of a $ so keep their day time jobs and play good footy in the lower grade and avoid the risk of not making a decent earn.
If the elite decided to walk a way because of unwillingness to accept the fact they are overpaid gladiators then the comp will go back to what we had years ago and before long the likes of Gasnier, Proven, Raper, Langlands, Irvine, Beetson, Sattler, Coote will again grace the footy fields and excite the fans because in the end Rugby League is the working mans game and we have always found a way to have heroes in our sport.
No disrespect but JAC is indeed a fast winger but so were Irvine, King, Cleary, Fahey, Bousted, Guru but to name a few and they brought the crowds to their feet for a lot less money and in fact I would rate almost all of them better all-round footballers (sorry "mother" maybe not you so much).
None of the overpaid wingers of today will ever get near Irvine's record despite all the hype around them.
In the end if they don't want to play the game f**k off and I am happy to cheer for the next bloke that pulls the jersey on for the right reasons.

Well said and here here!

 

[Dragon David]

Well said and here here!

Well said and here here!

"For the times, they are a changing". All deadwood will be let go and everything going back to basics and grass roots. Streamlining for the better.

 

[True_Believer]

SL will be unattractive to many and after this Coronavirus pandemic settles down I suggest that many will not want to be overseas anytime soon regardless of money.
Union is a bigger basket case than league (well done Raelene Castle) and the already great influx of Polynesian players in our teams makes it difficult for more than a few of our very best / elite to be even considered. The Super Rugby competition will also be at greater risk due to its international nature and the inherent health risks involved with that.
I suspect many team sports will have reality checks in to salaries in light of the economic disaster that accompanies the virus.
I think not only will it work it will be implemented because the clubs have no options in tough economic circumstances and players that want to lead that lifestyle of playing sport for a leaving will continue to do so.

I disagree.

I think League will still need to be very competitive financially for it be viable. Money always talks and if we aren't willing to pay, then we will have a second rate comp. Even if what you are saying does work initially, it will die off over time because junior athletes will look to participate in alternative sports that provide a better living.

I guess we'll see.

 

[grouch]

Some extreme Boomer logic in this thread. Nuts.

Union is a bigger basket case than league (well done Raelene Castle) and the already great influx of Polynesian players in our teams makes it difficult for more than a few of our very best / elite to be even considered.

and what does this mean, exactly?

 

[Old Timer]

Some extreme Boomer logic in this thread. Nuts.


and what does this mean, exactly?

I was answering Benny V’s proposition that if we don’t stump up plenty for league players they will go to Union for big $ instead
I pointed out that our union sides here are already full of offshore Polynesian players (who are very good at rugby but can’t get a run in a Kiwi side) so I don’t believe that we would lose many if any to union from RL

 

[True_Believer]

I was answering Benny V’s proposition that if we don’t stump up plenty for league players they will go to Union for big $ instead
I pointed out that our union sides here are already full of offshore Polynesian players (who are very good at rugby but can’t get a run in a Kiwi side) so I don’t believe that we would lose many if any to union from RL

You mean me?

Even if the union sides are full of Polynesian players, that doesn't mean they won't be looking for talent in RL. And it's not just Polynesian or Islander players that will be head hunted. I guarantee that if a player gets offered to play full time sport for a significant wage compared to a comparatively paltry wage and a part time job in League, they'll jump without a second thought.

It's fanciful to suggest that we'd be going back to a time like the 50s and 60s when sport wasn't a business. We'd never attract players of that quality - especially if games like cricket, soccer, tennis, golf, union or even super league are offering to pay significant amounts of cash above and beyond what league were paying. Junior athletes just wouldn't be interested in playing it. We might be lucky enough to retain something resembling league, but the best it would be is a park sport - the type we currently scoff at when talking about some of the player signings.

Sport is a business whether you like it or not. And as a result, league will never be what it was 50 or more years ago.

 

[Old Timer]

You mean me?

Even if the union sides are full of Polynesian players, that doesn't mean they won't be looking for talent in RL. And it's not just Polynesian or Islander players that will be head hunted. I guarantee that if a player gets offered to play full time sport for a significant wage compared to a comparatively paltry wage and a part time job in League, they'll jump without a second thought.

It's fanciful to suggest that we'd be going back to a time like the 50s and 60s when sport wasn't a business. We'd never attract players of that quality - especially if games like cricket, soccer, tennis, golf, union or even super league are offering to pay significant amounts of cash above and beyond what league were paying. Junior athletes just wouldn't be interested in playing it. We might be lucky enough to retain something resembling league, but the best it would be is a park sport - the type we currently scoff at when talking about some of the player signings.

Sport is a business whether you like it or not. And as a result, league will never be what it was 50 or more years ago.

So who are these sports that will make the big offers?
The body of a RL player doesn’t lend itself to other sports easily.
I am sure that if one code leads by drastically reducing the ridiculous and evidently unsustainable salaries the other codes would happily follow suit.
There has been no big exodus of RL players to union with only a very very few ever making it and they probably come from a jnr RU background anyway
Benji & Burgess examples of absolute failures
Reverting back to what was 50 years ago that scenario is offered on the basis that all the blokes in the NRL now opt out
The CC is exactly what would replace it with a few professionals and if that is what happens fans will follow the game and great players will come.
If the best don’t want to receive $300k a year good luck getting that somewhere else as when this is virus all over and done with there won’t be any money in the tin anyway.

 

[True_Believer]

So who are these sports that will make the big offers?
The body of a RL player doesn’t lend itself to other sports easily.
I am sure that if one code leads by drastically reducing the ridiculous and evidently unsustainable salaries the other codes would happily follow suit.
There has been no big exodus of RL players to union with only a very very few ever making it and they probably come from a jnr RU background anyway
Benji & Burgess examples of absolute failures
Reverting back to what was 50 years ago that scenario is offered on the basis that all the blokes in the NRL now opt out
The CC is exactly what would replace it with a few professionals and if that is what happens fans will follow the game and great players will come.
If the best don’t want to receive $300k a year good luck getting that somewhere else as when this is virus all over and done with there won’t be any money in the tin anyway.

As grouch said, it's boomer logic. You are living in a past that we can never go back to.

And besides, you've completely missed the whole point of my post. It's sports in general. If league doesn't want to pay big money, kids will opt for a sport that does. It's the nature of the business and sport will continue to strive to get back there. League will die a slow death if they don't pony up money right from the start. It might not be at the level it is today early on, but it won't take long to get there.

The only reason we have a CC is because the players are striving to make it to NRL and the big money. The money dries up and the quality of all comps will suffer. They aren't playing for the love of the game.

 

[Old Timer]

As grouch said, it's boomer logic. You are living in a past that we can never go back to.

And besides, you've completely missed the whole point of my post. It's sports in general. If league doesn't want to pay big money, kids will opt for a sport that does. It's the nature of the business and sport will continue to strive to get back there. League will die a slow death if they don't pony up money right from the start. It might not be at the level it is today early on, but it won't take long to get there.

The only reason we have a CC is because the players are striving to make it to NRL and the big money. The money dries up and the quality of all comps will suffer. They aren't playing for the love of the game.

Ok what are the other big paying sports you talk of?
There are many sports are played by people who do it for the love of the game and have jobs to support them.
These sports already have a large steam of young people already on path to that sport so where do all the RL players fit into that stream?
CC has a huge number of players who are not part of your roster and have always worked and played footy on the weekend. It’s the top 30 in your roster are the ones chasing the bigger $$$

 

[True_Believer]

Ok what are the other big paying sports you talk of?
There are many sports are played by people who do it for the love of the game and have jobs to support them.
These sports already have a large steam of young people already on path to that sport so where do all the RL players fit into that stream?
CC has a huge number of players who are not part of your roster and have always worked and played footy on the weekend. It’s the top 30 in your roster are the ones chasing the bigger $$$

?

So cricket doesn't pay? Basketball? Soccer? Union? AFL? Tennis? Golf? You don't think the players in those sports get paid handsomely? You think the players in the top levels of those sports have a second job and get paid significantly less than league players? Do you think all of those sports will force their players to take paycuts? And even if they do, do you think it will be a long term thing? I really think you are sadly mistaken if you do.

And I think you are seriously underestimating the desire for players in CC to get to NRL. I really can't understand how you can say it's only the top 30 that are the ones chasing the bigger dollars? Aren't all players striving to get into the top 30? They have to be selected from CC. All those juniors coming through aren't just there for the fun of it. They are in there trying to make the top 30 so they can get selected in the NRL and gain the prestige and the money. I'm dumbfounded by your statement that its only the top 30 chasing it. I'd bet if you asked them that every single player in CC has a desire to play in the NRL. Some are forced to take another job to help support their dream of playing in the NRL.

And you've completely missed my point again. It's kids growing up that with gravitate to the better paying sport. The current league players might flow through but they will get thinner and thinner as the years go by because league would be considered lesser sport compared to others who have continued to pay their sportsmen a shit load more.

Have you ever watched a Queensland Cup or CC game? The quality is significantly less than NRL and not a great spectacle. If we continue on down the CC path as you predict, televised games will drop meaning even less revenue. That means we might get back to the televised games of the 80s where we saw maybe 2 games on TV. Support will wane as there will be less games to watch and people unable to actually attend games will show less interest. Meanwhile sports like AFL will take a huge chunk of corporate revenue and dominate the sporting scene across the country.

You have to face the fact that all sport is a business these days - unlike the 'simpler times' that you yearn to return to. If league doesn't want to tag along as all others will, it will die. This is why everyone is concerned with the cancellation of the comp. It's all about money and making sure it can compete with other sports and in the business world.

 

[Old Timer]

?

So cricket doesn't pay? Basketball? Soccer? Union? AFL? Tennis? Golf? You don't think the players in those sports get paid handsomely? You think the players in the top levels of those sports have a second job and get paid significantly less than league players? Do you think all of those sports will force their players to take paycuts? And even if they do, do you think it will be a long term thing? I really think you are sadly mistaken if you do.

And I think you are seriously underestimating the desire for players in CC to get to NRL. I really can't understand how you can say it's only the top 30 that are the ones chasing the bigger dollars? Aren't all players striving to get into the top 30? They have to be selected from CC. All those juniors coming through aren't just there for the fun of it. They are in there trying to make the top 30 so they can get selected in the NRL and gain the prestige and the money. I'm dumbfounded by your statement that its only the top 30 chasing it. I'd bet if you asked them that every single player in CC has a desire to play in the NRL. Some are forced to take another job to help support their dream of playing in the NRL.

And you've completely missed my point again. It's kids growing up that with gravitate to the better paying sport. The current league players might flow through but they will get thinner and thinner as the years go by because league would be considered lesser sport compared to others who have continued to pay their sportsmen a shit load more.

Have you ever watched a Queensland Cup or CC game? The quality is significantly less than NRL and not a great spectacle. If we continue on down the CC path as you predict, televised games will drop meaning even less revenue. That means we might get back to the televised games of the 80s where we saw maybe 2 games on TV. Support will wane as there will be less games to watch and people unable to actually attend games will show less interest. Meanwhile sports like AFL will take a huge chunk of corporate revenue and dominate the sporting scene across the country.

You have to face the fact that all sport is a business these days - unlike the 'simpler times' that you yearn to return to. If league doesn't want to tag along as all others will, it will die. This is why everyone is concerned with the cancellation of the comp. It's all about money and making sure it can compete with other sports and in the business world.

Your quote re the other sports is delusional as you are talking about the $$$ of top players at international level
Most of the NRL players are club players not internationals so they won’t make it to the top of the sports you mention otherwise they would already have gone down that path
Club cricket pays SFA
Club Rugby plays SFA
Club golf pros earn SFA
Club tennis doesn’t exist
AFL & A League potentially but they already have a stockpile of players and huge junior leagues already
There are to the best of my knowledge no examples of RL players transitioning into those sports with any success.
The players that stream to RL do so because they are suited to the sport and cricket, tennis and golf at the top end far exceed RL for $$$ to be earned so that incentive already exists and RL exists despite them.

 

[True_Believer]

Your quote re the other sports is delusional as you are talking about the $$$ of top players at international level
Most of the NRL players are club players not internationals so they won’t make it to the top of the sports you mention otherwise they would already have gone down that path
Club cricket pays SFA
Club Rugby plays SFA
Club golf pros earn SFA
Club tennis doesn’t exist
AFL & A League potentially but they already have a stockpile of players and huge junior leagues already
There are to the best of my knowledge no examples of RL players transitioning into those sports with any success.
The players that stream to RL do so because they are suited to the sport and cricket, tennis and golf at the top end far exceed RL for $$$ to be earned so that incentive already exists and RL exists despite them.

Delusional? Have you been reading what you are writing? If anyone is delusional it's you.

What you are talking about is ONLY having a club game equivalent - ie CC. But cricket and all the other sports you listed won't stop at that. They will continue to have a top tier competition that continues to pay top dollar for their players.

But oh no - not league in OT's world. They'll settle for much less pay, a part time job and just play for the love of the game. And boy, will we see the greats come out of the woodwork! They aren't there currently, but this new world will draw them out!!!

Finally, you always talk about peoples lack of comprehension skills. Well you either A - seriously lack them yourself, or B you are purposefully ignoring my point. I will say it again, the current players may not transition across to other sports, but over time, young sportsmen coming through will gravitate towards the more prestigious and financially attainable sports. Sports like cricket and afl and A League. It's the young players coming through (at junior and school levels) that will get drawn into these other games. What you are doing by your suggestions is handing these kids over to these sports on a platter. They're the sports that will have the media deals. They are the sports that will have the exposure and all the televised games. They are the ones that will draw in the kids. As youngsters, why would they choose to play league if there's nothing to strive for?

Anyway, I've made my point multiple times and have nothing further to say on the matter. As I said earlier, we'll see what happens.

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

Next year it’s going to be very interesting as to what happens. I hope something is done about the Roosters. If every club has a reduced salary cap but they still have those huge third party deals there will be no point having a salary cap. It will be Roosters, Brisbane and Melbourne vs reggies teams.

 

[Dragon David]

I believe that as the current state of the economy worldwide is dire, it will require a significant period for it to recover even if governments put needed money into peoples bank accounts in order to spend to stimulate the economy. All forms of business and professions will take time to get back to the operating performances prior to the covid 19 attack.

Likewise the NRL has been hit hard and there are reports that the Nine Network won't be paying any more money to the NRL and is wanting to tear up its current rugby league broadcasting contract and renegotiating terms and conditions for the period up to the end of 2022. High end funds will just not be available and the league will need to adjust its operating expenditure as a result. It would not be economically feasible for the salary cap to be maintained at $9.6M for the top 30 players at each club, not initially anyway once the virus has been more or less eradicated and the games start again.

I feel sure that the Broadcasters and NRL can reach an agreement and keep the sport going at an elite level once things have been sorted. Players will not get as much as they are getting now is my prediction and clubs will have to streamline the way they operate to rid waste and overstaffing.

 

[Old Timer]

True_Believer
Firstly apologies for saying "delusional" that was indeed unwarranted I should have chosen a better and less in-flamatory word.

Just for the record as much as I referred to the ways of yesteryear I did proffer a pay arrangement in response to a statement about a $5.5m salary cap as follows

"Ask if they can drive a forklift or if they want to pick up a couple of hundred garbage cans a day or play footy for $125k for the mediocre and $225k for the best of them.
If it is an even split of 15 x $125k & 15 x $225k = $5.25m
You can tinker some a little bit down and some a little bit up but the basic idea seams about right to me."

On that basis the vast majority would in fact not have to have additional work outside the game as evidently the lower end of the scale is currently around $90K.

All sporting codes in Australia IMO will do it very tough after this crisis maybe with the exception of A-League but the jury is still out there.

With no disrespect to them it is not as if we are dealing with a bunch of Rhodes Scholars that will be on big money in private enterprise compared to what RL offers them. Some will fit into that category but many many more are streamed for RL from 16 years of age and go that way rather than choose a scholastic working career.

I agree Tennis, golf have big money already much bigger than RL but that is already an enticement that exists but the success rate is so small and the journeymen tours so big RL even at reduced income will be still attractive to many.

Re rugby union hardly any of the forwards that play league would be suited for the game as they are neither big enough, tall enough (back rowers & locks are nearly all giants) nor the right body shape for the front row and SBW & SB played in the backs in union despite being great NRL forwards.

So IMO body shape and size will have a fair say and dictate where kids can go in sport and I hope RL is there for them.

As you say wait & see and let's all hope that our game is around, sustainable and no longer top heavy for the chosen few.

No doubt John Grant's capitulation to the clubs overt the salary cap as well as the rugby league players association greedy approach all have a lot to answer for and no doubt the truth will be revealed in the next little while.