SJ.

[Wheeled Warrior]

Honestly I’m not sure SJ is great coaching material, he was too much of an instinctive, naturally gifted player and that’s stuff you can’t coach. There’s an old adage in coaching, “mediocre athletes make great coaches”. It’s the guys who were naturally a bit plod and had to find ways to separate themselves from the rest to win by thinking that tend to make great coaches, not the super gifted athletes that it came naturally to.
I do think he’s got a great future in media if he wants one though.

If Shaun replaces someone like Blairy on Sky, I’d be fine with that. But I wouldn't want him to stick with commentating or his current podcast for too long. It's pretty bland and feels more like a show where his friends are just hyping him up.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

I’m definitely the weird one when it comes to stuff like this, but it’s crazy to me how often players make mistakes like this when narrating their own lives. Another example is that I’ve always been interested in the progress of SBW’s career from leaving NZ to playing first grade, so I read his book - and there’s no coherent or consistent narrative of when things happened, what year it was, how old he was etc.

With SJ I find it staggering he could make that mistake given he aged out of under-20s and was playing NSW Cup that year because he was too old. How could he possibly have forgotten that?

Agreed. He should've made first grade a lot earlier than he did, but I just watched Ivan on Once a Warrior and he said he wasn't ready. It must have been an attitude thing. In the end it looks to be the difference between him playing 300 games or not. He ends 32 games short of that mark.

I also read SBW's book. Unfortunately, it was very disappointing. For those of you who haven't read it, this is basically how it goes:

Growing up in Auckland
I'm a fair skinned samoan
The Dogs/Party days
The walkout
Alhamdulillah
All Blacks
All Blacks
All Blacks
I'm a half-caste Samoan
Inshallah
Roosters
Roosters
Roosters
Me, the light-skinned Samoan
All Blacks
All Blacks
All Blacks
Alhamdulillah
Inshallah I'm a fair-skinned samoan pasifika man

Barely a mention of playing for the Kiwis at all! I was thoroughly annoyed by that. He didn't say a single word about the 2013 World Cup, and how he controversially (although correctly) took Tohu's spot which was a huge talking point at the time. Only his brother mentioned that tournament in the part he wrote. And of course he had to go get Allan Duff to write it, who's a fiction author.

I did enjoy that story he told about a Wahs player snobbing him while riding the stationary bike though lol. Any idea who it is? I was thinking Vinnie Anderson maybe.

 

[JJ]

He’s hard to dislike, but the narcissistic streak, and the precious one are the reasons I’ve never warmed to him…. Always been about Shaun I reckon

 

[TheDMC]

The reddit simps did have a good point that we kinda forget though, that overall he’s been an absolute credit to the sport. Hes never had any off field trouble or scandals, dont think he’s ever been suspended, cant even recall him being cited. Literally the worst thing he’s done in a 14 year career is have a couple of minor sooks on social media. Plus he’s always fronted the media well, and probably been the most important kiwi player of the last decade in terms of raising the sport’s profile and attracting new fans.
he might have been inconsistent and frustrating to the warriors faithful on occasion but to the wider league community he’s been the face of Kiwi Rigby league for a decade and on the whole he’s shouldered that responsibility bloody well.

Great perspective. Let's celebrate his achievements. Don't think anyone on this Forum is under the illusion he is a demigod so who gives a toss too much what various numpties out there think, on either extreme spectrum.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Agreed. He should've made first grade a lot earlier than he did, but I just watched Ivan on Once a Warrior and he said he wasn't ready. It must have been an attitude thing. In the end it looks to be the difference between him playing 300 games or not. He ends 32 games short of that mark.

I also read SBW's book. Unfortunately, it was very disappointing. For those of you who haven't read it, this is basically how it goes:

Growing up in Auckland
I'm a fair skinned samoan
The Dogs/Party days
The walkout
Alhamdulillah
All Blacks
All Blacks
All Blacks
I'm a half-caste Samoan
Inshallah
Roosters
Roosters
Roosters
Me, the light-skinned Samoan
All Blacks
All Blacks
All Blacks
Alhamdulillah
Inshallah I'm a fair-skinned samoan pasifika man

Barely a mention of playing for the Kiwis at all! I was thoroughly annoyed by that. He didn't say a single word about the 2013 World Cup, and how he controversially (although correctly) took Tohu's spot which was a huge talking point at the time. Only his brother mentioned that tournament in the part he wrote. And of course he had to go get Allan Duff to write it, who's a fiction author.

I did enjoy that story he told about a Wahs player snobbing him while riding the stationary bike though lol. Any idea who it is? I was thinking Vinnie Anderson maybe.

Yeah the book absolutely stunk and the overriding impression you get from it, sadly, is he’s an idiot and an arsehole and it’s a shame (and dangerous) that he’s become so confident and forthright in his own opinions. It was sort of deflating and disturbing at the same time, wanting to read something interesting about his career and instead it’s the coming out story of a narcissistic religious fundamentalist.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

If Shaun replaces someone like Blairy on Sky, I’d be fine with that. But I wouldn't want him to stick with commentating or his current podcast for too long. It's pretty bland and feels more like a show where his friends are just hyping him up.

Yeah I’d much rather see him get a proper TV gig as a commentator or presenter, I think he’d go well.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I’m definitely the weird one when it comes to stuff like this, but it’s crazy to me how often players make mistakes like this when narrating their own lives. Another example is that I’ve always been interested in the progress of SBW’s career from leaving NZ to playing first grade, so I read his book - and there’s no coherent or consistent narrative of when things happened, what year it was, how old he was etc.

With SJ I find it staggering he could make that mistake given he aged out of under-20s and was playing NSW Cup that year because he was too old. How could he possibly have forgotten that?

I feel like he saw it as a better story if he was 19, so he ran with that number under the premise of being uncertain. This is a guy who remembers his highlights.

Honestly I’m not sure SJ is great coaching material, he was too much of an instinctive, naturally gifted player and that’s stuff you can’t coach. There’s an old adage in coaching, “mediocre athletes make great coaches”. It’s the guys who were naturally a bit plod and had to find ways to separate themselves from the rest to win by thinking that tend to make great coaches, not the super gifted athletes that it came naturally to.
I do think he’s got a great future in media if he wants one though.

Yeah it's a good point...I'm really not sure. He seems to speak really articulately about the role of a halve, how that looks and so on, and I think he is a pretty intelligent guy. I wouldn't at all rule him out of being a decent coach, although you are right with what you say. And he seems to love the sound of his own voice a bit much.

I think we can all agree the best thing for the world is that he replaces Adam Blair in his commentary role.

 

[Blair]

I feel like he saw it as a better story if he was 19, so he ran with that number under the premise of being uncertain. This is a guy who remembers his highlights.

Shaun, I remember we lost that game, when you sensationally scored that try at aged 19. So, true, great try, but the team lost an important game.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

He’s hard to dislike, but the narcissistic streak, and the precious one are the reasons I’ve never warmed to him…. Always been about Shaun I reckon

Ironically this is how I felt with AFB at certain stages, though I got prosecuted for not having evidence.
There is no evidence for SJ either. He won players awards during this so-called streak.

Am I missing something here?

Shaun had an ego like many of the other U20's stars that the media were hyping up, it's understandable that he had to grow up a little bit.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Shaun, I remember we lost that game, when you sensationally scored that try at aged 19. So, true, great try, but the team lost an important game.

I mean to be fair, it was a pretty iconic moment - I remember exactly where I was. You can't say that about many things. I remember that, the 2008 Witt try, the 2011 Inu try, the Logan Swann F up in 2007, where I was when I heard Sonny Fai died, and so on.

Ironically this is how I felt with AFB at certain stages, though I got prosecuted for not having evidence.
There is no evidence for SJ either. He won players awards during this so-called streak.

Am I missing something here?

Shaun had an ego like many of the other U20's stars that the media were hyping up, it's understandable that he had to grow up a little bit,

Joey said something outrageous (as he does with young players, although I think he's tempered it since) about SJ as a teenager, hadn't played FG yet. Then Freddie Fittler had a go at Shaun - might've been 2013 or so - and he took it awfully. Really always has.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

I mean to be fair, it was a pretty iconic moment - I remember exactly where I was. You can't say that about many things. I remember that, the 2008 Witt try, the 2011 Inu try, the Logan Swann F up in 2007, where I was when I heard Sonny Fai died, and so on.


Joey said something outrageous (as he does with young players, although I think he's tempered it since) about SJ as a teenager, hadn't played FG yet. Then Freddie Fittler had a go at Shaun - might've been 2013 or so - and he took it awfully. Really always has.

That Fittler one always stuck with me, and it wasn’t even much of a dig, it was simply along the lines of “he needs to run the ball more and take some bruises” and the reply came “I don’t care what he thinks”

The “you’se got what you wanted” after the World Cup Quarter disgrace wasn’t top drawer either

 

[JJ]

Ironically this is how I felt with AFB at certain stages, though I got prosecuted for not having evidence.
There is no evidence for SJ either. He won players awards during this so-called streak.

Am I missing something here?

Shaun had an ego like many of the other U20's stars that the media were hyping up, it's understandable that he had to grow up a little bit.

Evidence? His social media, the response to Fittler suggesting he get his jersey dirty, the bitchy swipe following a Kiwi's loss, many examples - and I was specifically referring to my never warming to him, not commenting on his team mates at all. I'm sure he's a more likeable fella than AFB, who I definitely didn't want us to sign - but AFB has been excellent, SJ pretty mixed imho

 

[Penrose Warrior]

That Fittler one always stuck with me, and it wasn’t even much of a dig, it was simply along the lines of “he needs to run the ball more and take some bruises” and the reply came “I don’t care what he thinks”

The “you’se got what you wanted” after the World Cup Quarter disgrace wasn’t top drawer either

The idea of not caring what a 336-game legendary halve thinks is wild.

That 'youse' thing, I also remember where I was when that happened. It was hilarious. 4-2 loss to Fiji, and Adam Blair is sitting in the press conference chewing gum and saying he wasn't disappointed to lose to them, and SJ thinks the public wanted them to lose, or the media, or whoever it was aimed at.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

The idea of not caring what a 336-game legendary halve thinks is wild.

That 'youse' thing, I also remember where I was when that happened. It was hilarious. 4-2 loss to Fiji, and Adam Blair is sitting in the press conference chewing gum and saying he wasn't disappointed to lose to them, and SJ thinks the public wanted them to lose, or the media, or whoever it was aimed at.

I’d just gotten home from Tonga v Lebanon which was a bloody sensational game, and never thought we would lose that game until the final whistle blew, then saw some blokes who couldn’t care less. League was in big trouble in this country at that point

 

[JJ]

The idea of not caring what a 336-game legendary halve thinks is wild.

That 'youse' thing, I also remember where I was when that happened. It was hilarious. 4-2 loss to Fiji, and Adam Blair is sitting in the press conference chewing gum and saying he wasn't disappointed to lose to them, and SJ thinks the public wanted them to lose, or the media, or whoever it was aimed at.

for someone who's got such a polished public image those sorts of slips were really quite revealing imo... even if you're annoyed, you have to know better - and Fittler was 1. Just doing his job; 2. Actually making a constuctive suggestion, and 3. Actually someone who Johnson could have learned from in many ways - identified as the next big thing much earlier than Johnson, succeed in first grade much earlier, took heat for not always being involved, and owned many many big games - notably one against us when Villisanti annoyed him (I don't think we were winning it anyway, but that ensured we were done)

 

[Evil_Mush]

I think it's potentially the generation viewpoint - there seems to be more sycophantic, all-encompassing love for teams and players, believing any criticism or viewpoint on their failings is for 'band wagon fans'. I see that so regularly on social media, although maybe that's the algorhythm.

Really, he's had one top-tier season (2023), I can't comment on the Sharks years, and other years where he wasn't in that category for whatever reason. Anyone can say why: injuries (2015 he was flying then broke his leg), poor coaching, ego, lack of quality around him etc.

Even now, he's still milking the glory. I saw on his podcast, they were ranking his biggest highlights in terms of god tier, iconic etc. We've moved on man

To be fair to SJ and the Play On team, that tier ranking thing is a recurring segment on the podcast where they rank moments or people by locking them into an order before seeing what the next one is going to be. Previous episodes included all-time athletes (or maybe it was iconic photos, not sure as I had audio only hah) and all-time sh!t talkers or something like that, they just decided to do SJ moments in the week following his retirement game which I don't have an issue with.

Also forums like this are definitely a generational thing that tend older I would think - I first discovered online forums in the early 00s while in my early 20s but younger peeps these days probably never find these sites for the most part as I imagine they are stuck to the social media app machine, a "forum" is probably a foreign concept to them!

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

Evidence? His social media, the response to Fittler suggesting he get his jersey dirty, the bitchy swipe following a Kiwi's loss, many examples - and I was specifically referring to my never warming to him, not commenting on his team mates at all. I'm sure he's a more likeable fella than AFB, who I definitely didn't want us to sign - but AFB has been excellent, SJ pretty mixed imho

Fair enough mate, makes sense I may have misread your post.

Yeah the "Youse got what you want" saga and all lol

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I had some sympathy for Johnson's comments in 2017 because I had also adopted a bit of a siege mentality after the Tonga defections. SJ might have had something completely different in mind when he said that (yes I realise it was after the Fiji game), but given the way our campaign was derailed, and then we had to play a "home" game in front of a mad anti-NZ crowd cheering on a bunch of turncoats, I can understand how the whole thing left a sour taste. Same with Blair's comments calling out Taumalolo (I think that was pre-tournament). Honestly, the players seeming to be genuinely mad about the defectors and about NZ fans cheering on other teams might've been the best thing to come out of the tournament for me - they just totally forgot to channel that anger into performance.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

Yeah the book absolutely stunk and the overriding impression you get from it, sadly, is he’s an idiot and an arsehole and it’s a shame (and dangerous) that he’s become so confident and forthright in his own opinions. It was sort of deflating and disturbing at the same time, wanting to read something interesting about his career and instead it’s the coming out story of a narcissistic religious fundamentalist.

I recall seeing footage of him at the Dogs 20 year premiership reunion earlier this year in full Muslim attire looking like an absolute try-hard goof. The sad thing is he went down that path cos Mundine told him to. He's a follower who pretends he's a leader.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

I had some sympathy for Johnson's comments in 2017 because I had also adopted a bit of a siege mentality after the Tonga defections. SJ might have had something completely different in mind when he said that (yes I realise it was after the Fiji game), but given the way our campaign was derailed, and then we had to play a "home" game in front of a mad anti-NZ crowd cheering on a bunch of turncoats, I can understand how the whole thing left a sour taste. Same with Blair's comments calling out Taumalolo (I think that was pre-tournament). Honestly, the players seeming to be genuinely mad about the defectors and about NZ fans cheering on other teams might've been the best thing to come out of the tournament for me - they just totally forgot to channel that anger into performance.

It was the darkest period in NZRL history. Every time I see the Kidwell mural (which was painted here in Chch before that tournament), I get reminded of the "key in the we" era and I become agitated.

I look forward to giving Tonga a good hiding in front of their fans every chance we get. Next month should be fun.