Smith is failing: the proof

[Misty Bee]

HJ, i didn't expect you to have anything intelligent to say.What, with downing a case AND having to hem your skirt as well!

The Gibson stars thing is pretty much what Smith has got. At the end of '80, Sterling as a young first grade half with a bright future. Kenny was understudy to Mick Patterson, and sometimes played centre to accommodate him. He didn't have many games under his belt. Zip was a reserve grader, who tasted 1st grade when patterson or Jkenny were out. Guru had only a handful of games as well. Price and Cronin were the guns, as was Bobbo, Ron Hilditch and Lew Platz.

Quite simply, Gibbo made Kenny, Ella and Grothe (and had a large say in Sterlo's development as well.

Brian Smith has, in turn, given us Jamie Lyon and Nathan Hindmarsh, whom I would put in the above company. He also gave us Cayless, Vella and Hodgeson (mostly), and had stars in Smith and Pay. So to say that the 80's Eels had a better side is not entirely accurate, although they did win premierships and dominate rep sides.

As for graphs and injuries, I think it is overstated. Injuries have not played as big a part in our clubs crisis as is made out to be. The form slump wa NOT the fault of injuries to Cayless, Hindy and Burt, more like piss poor form of Wagon, Vella, Vaialiki, Green, Hodgeson and sometimes Dykes. Rather than blame injuries, I have not heard a Smith lover answer why allof his remaining big guns played like busted arses for 10 weeks, and left it to new chums Morris, Hopkins and Mick Witt, and good old Killer Lyon to carry the load. I can still remember the game against Easts where Lyon made something like 27 tackles at friggin inside centre!

 

[EELS13]

and Stuey had plenty of glory - he led the revival against Newcastle from 20-0 down at half-time (when 20 was a bloody big lead)

HJ, that goes down as one of the games that stick in my mind most. I was driving through Newcastle (on the freeway anyway !!)on my way home from Queensland, and had to give it too the locals on the way through, great arvo it was.....

 

[Misty Bee]

and Stuey had plenty of glory - he led the revival against Newcastle from 20-0 down at half-time (when 20 was a bloody big lead)

HJ, that goes down as one of the games that stick in my mind most. I was driving through Newcastle (on the freeway anyway !!)on my way home from Queensland, and had to give it too the locals on the way through, great arvo it was.....

And Newcastle was so awestruck at Galbraiths mystical talents that they sacked their coach the next day!

And won a premiership 4 years later!

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

As for graphs and injuries, I think it is overstated. Injuries have not played as big a part in our clubs crisis as is made out to be. The form slump wa NOT the fault of injuries to Cayless, Hindy and Burt,

that is obsolutely not true. Simply tell me Hindy didn't make a huge difference to the team on his return! And Burt was our best dummy-half runner in the forst three rounds by far, and considering how important d-h running is now he was a big loss.

more like piss poor form of Wagon, Vella, Vaialiki, Green, Hodgeson and sometimes Dykes.

This, however, is also partly true.

Wagon - Mate, I dunno. Wags really did not have a good year. I can remember in 01 when we played Brisbane and he took a great offload from K-Lo, put on a swerve that left Lockyer looking like an amatuer and scored a brilliant try. None of that this year, and his defense (which is his MAIN platform) hasn't been the same either.

Vella - Vella hasn't been at his peak since 01. His two starts to the seasons since have been awful, and I dare say that it was largely due to him being a lazy bastard int he offseason (I think). I say this because I remember him starting last season from the bench because he was overweight and not fit, and I just think he hasn't looked after himself well enough.

Vaealiki - Well i actually think Lex had a half decent year this year. Thing is, he doesn't play his 2001 game anymore. He's not a palmer, a stepper or a tackle buster. He is now a strong running centre who feeds his winger extremely wel. it was Dust who pointed this out to me after I was hacking shit on Lex for not breaking tackles, and when i watched closely I saw that a majority of Petersen's tries were because Lex did the hard work and sent Muzza on his way. Considering we are used to a different style of play from him, this may not have been as easy to spot. Watch him next year and see what I mean.

Green - Green played for us this year? (lol, seriously, poor fella.........)

Hodgo - Well, hodgson wasn't that bad either, not as bad as most think. But since Gordie threw him around like a ragdoll he hasn't been injury free so he can find his 01 form. It was pointed out to me on Mad Monday that he was let go not because of his form, bit because he is playing increasingly less games, and thus not worth the 200k+ he was asking. 25 games in 00, 22 in 01, 15 in 02 and 10 in 03. Hodgo is a good example of why Origin was a major factor in killing us. Once Gordie treated him like his bitch, he has been broken and thus unable to contribute to the team on a regular and thus satisfactory level.

Dykes - Everyone knows why Dykes hasn't set the world on fire. he is the new Dave Woods of Parra.

 

[Misty Bee]

My god. A decent reply from HJ!

Wonders will never cease!

Yep, will look at Vaialiki next year. He did play well for NZ on a terrible night for them.

The reason I discount injuries is that in Hindy's absence, Lee Hopkins stepped up to the plate. In those early losses, Hopkins was a standout. Evidenced by his grief v Melbourne. Somany players fell out of form, and had they carried on in decent form we would probably still be playing.

That was the period when I first started questioning Smith. So many decent players not doing their job - and it took him so long to sort it out. In the end it killed our season.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

No, injuries killed oun season.

Whether everyone played like crap or not, answer this question - Would we have missed the finals if Hindy had have played all year?

No way! And with our form coming into the finals we would have been a good chance to win 2 games and finish in the top 4

not saying others didn't play crapper than they should have, just that Hindy would have been the difference in those games such as Melbourne, manly etc

 

[Misty Bee]

Granted, Hindy may have made the difference in a couple of games, menaing we'd be 8th, and Brisbane 9th. But had the remaining players stepped up to the plat, we could have been top 4!

Blaming Hindy's absence and ignoring so many players in poor form is stupid. Had Vella, Hodgeson and Wagon captured the form that made then rep players, the season would have been far different.

You also forget that Cayless and Hindy missed large chunks of 2001 as well.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

i wouldn't call them "large" chunks, and Caylo didn't exactly spend it all on the sideline due to injury, did he? ;-) Not that it matters,......

 

[EELS13]

I firmly believe that one of the secrets of success next season is a bit of stability. We need players to be aware of their position, and know where they will fit into the weekends plans. Obviously an injury free season will help this. What i mean is, a player like Daniel Wagon for example should not be playing 5/8 one week (well never if i had my way.), in the centres the next week, than back to the bench. The best teams have a set core of players, with a few players who chop and change due to who ever the opposition is. It makes it hard, especially in defence, when you cant build up a confidence in the team mates either side of you. its hard enough keeping up with the opposition ,with out having to worry about the fact the the guy defending on your inside has defended in 5 different positions the last 3 weeks and may be caught out of position. This type of consistency and trust is brought about by playing week in, week out with people in set positions, and knowing there own job. I think consistency and an injury free run are essential to our chances in 2004.

 

[Misty Bee]

Both of them spent a fair bit of time early on. Remember Hindy's shoulder problem? My point is in their absence in 2001, we didn't slump to huge defeats weekafter week. So why was 2003 any differnt?

 

[bartman]

not saying others didn't play crapper than they should have, just that Hindy would have been the difference in those games such as Melbourne, manly etc

And if not Hindy alone, Burt and Cayless too would have strongly contributed during the year.

Injuries or not, some players (mentioned above) have to take responsibility for their poor form at times this year, can't all be blamed on one coach!

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

most definately. That was our major key to 01

an example is the Brissie game. Despite winning by only 1 they had NOTHING on us. They only scored off the lottery of kicks, and by picking Wagon on the left side when he was forced to defend out of position when Ash was forced from the field.

A stable team becomes a confident team, and a confident team with some talent can win quite a few games

 

[EELS13]

And we definitely have talent to burn.
We are just short of the confidence we had in 2001. Although not many teams have ever had the confidence we showed in 2001.

 

[Misty Bee]

Injuries or not, some players (mentioned above) have to take responsibility for their poor form at times this year, can't all be blamed on one coach!

Bartman, what do we employ a coach for?

 

[Eelementary]

Pft!

You can come up with statistics to prove anything - 96% of all people know that!

But seriosuly - that is your opinion, I have mine.

 

[eloquentEEL]

Pft!

You can come up with statistics to prove anything - 96% of all people know that!

But seriosuly - that is your opinion, I have mine.

I've said it before at parraeels and I'll say it again... statistics show that the average person has one testicle

 

[bartman]

Bartman, what do we employ a coach for?

To take the blame whenever anything goes wrong of course!

Coaching is not just motivating players on game day so they play to their best. It's a week-long job about scrutiny, analysis, skill development, training, tactics, and game plans as well.

That's the role of a representative team coach - the players' are usually considered good enough to handle their own form, commitment and motivation to the task at hand. If a player (or several players) don't play to form in rep sides, they take the blame, not the coach.

I understand that you quote how many rep players we had in the 2002/3 teams, and are justifiably disappointed in a non top 4 result. (Me too.) I would argue therefore that based on the rep-like quality of our players, they should take the larger (or at worst) equal share of blame for their poor form, not solely laid at the feet of the coach.

Sure, this year has probably shown us (and Smith) that some senior players weren't up to what was expected of them, and that he'll have to do better in that personal motivation side of things of being a coach. And this realisation probably disappoints him as much as us.

 

[Misty Bee]

Bart, I'm not saying that it was all poor motivation (although that definitely played a part.

The coach is employed by the club to get the best out fo the players at hand. Can you say that Smith achieved that this year? When Wagon played crap, fopr example, was it lack of motivatio? Or was it something else? Either way, Smiths job is to ensure that the club gets the best value for money from each player.

Quite simply, we didn't.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

I firmly believe that one of the secrets of success next season is a bit of stability. We need players to be aware of their position, and know where they will fit into the weekends plans. Obviously an injury free season will help this. What i mean is, a player like Daniel Wagon for example should not be playing 5/8 one week (well never if i had my way.), in the centres the next week, than back to the bench. The best teams have a set core of players, with a few players who chop and change due to who ever the opposition is. It makes it hard, especially in defence, when you cant build up a confidence in the team mates either side of you. its hard enough keeping up with the opposition ,with out having to worry about the fact the the guy defending on your inside has defended in 5 different positions the last 3 weeks and may be caught out of position. This type of consistency and trust is brought about by playing week in, week out with people in set positions, and knowing there own job. I think consistency and an injury free run are essential to our chances in 2004.

So true Eels13.

 

[eloquentEEL]

Smiths job is to ensure that the club gets the best value for money from each player.

How can you be so sure that he didn't? How do you know that the players would not have done worse under anyone else? How do you know that somebody else could have got more out of the players?

If a coach manages to get a player to a standard where they make every tackle at training, but in a match the player simply stuffs up and misses every second tackle, how is that the coach's fault?