Stalled and stagnant Sydney clubs

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Nope.

Lived in both cities and Lang Park is a f**king dream compared to getting out of say Brookie or Shark Park. I'd say there's pretty much no stadium in Sydney as well located and easy to get in and out of as Lang Park.

Commbank stadium is probably the best and even then Roma Street Station (Which isn't the closest one to Lang Park obviously) is closer than Parramatta station.

If that's the case then we need less teams in Sydney playing out of suburban grounds. Swans don't have a problem drawing 30k to the SCG. Roosters could become a big team within a generation or two if they didn't have competition from Manly, South Sydney, St George and Cronulla.

 

[t-ba]

If that's the case then we need less teams in Sydney playing out of suburban grounds. Swans don't have a problem drawing 30k to the SCG. Roosters could become a big team within a generation or two if they didn't have competition from Manly, South Sydney, St George and Cronulla.

Yeah, because culling clubs sure has worked in the past lol.

Hot tip mate where do you think a big chunk of those Swannies fans come from?

Disaffected Norths, Newtown and Balmain fans.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Pretty sure union is a religion in Wales, New Zealand and most of South Africa and has been for decades.

In South Africa onionball is only popular amongst its whites, which are a minority and account for just 8.9% of the population. The total number of whites in South Africa is around 5 million.

The South Asian community prefers cricket and its blacks prefer soccer.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I liked it better when they were on different sides of the argument; two extremes. Now they on same page for some reason

I want to see the game improve and become bigger. If it keeps doing the same thing it will stay the same.

It would be good if the 6pm Friday game was canned. It does nothing for crowds.

 

[The Great Dane]

Yeah, because culling clubs sure has worked in the past lol.

Hot tip mate where do you think a big chunk of those Swannies fans come from?

Disaffected Norths, Newtown and Balmain fans.

I'm a Bears fan and I've never seen any hard evidence that that's actually the case. Even anecdotally I can't think of a single person whom suddenly became a fan of another sport after the merger that didn't already have an interest in that sport before.

Frankly the assertion that fans of the club's that were rationalised make/made up the bulk of Swans and/or Waratahs fans is just media speculation that's been repeated so much that it became "true".

 

[t-ba]

I'm a Bears fan and I've never seen any hard evidence that that's actually the case. Even anecdotally I can't think of a single person whom suddenly became a fan of another sport after the merger that didn't already have an interest in that sport before.

Frankly the assertion that fans of the club's that were rationalised make/made up the bulk of Swans and/or Waratahs fans is just media speculation that's been repeated so much that it became "true".

I'm from Willoughby.

Two of my uncles, and a few of their mates. The Union Hotel going from literally NS Brothers club house to a Swans hotel.

Plenty of examples dude.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yeah, because culling clubs sure has worked in the past lol.

Hot tip mate where do you think a big chunk of those Swannies fans come from?

Disaffected Norths, Newtown and Balmain fans.

This is the bit I don't understand. One argument I hear is Sydney is difficult to traverse, hence the lowish crowds for NRL games.

If this is true then how come the Swans have fans from North Shore and the Inner West travelling to the SCG?

 

[t-ba]

This is the bit I don't understand. One argument I hear is Sydney is difficult to traverse, hence the lowish crowds for NRL games.

If this is true then how come the Swans have fans from North Shore and the Inner West travelling to the SCG?

Because they're close to the city?

Look at a map of Sydney and point out to me where Marrickville and North Sydney are dude.

 

[The Great Dane]

I'm from Willoughby.

Two of my uncles, and a few of their mates. The Union Hotel going from literally NS Brothers club house to a Swans hotel.

Plenty of examples dude.

All meaningless anecdotes.

BTW, the timeline doesn't even really add up for a bunch of ex-Bears fans to jump on the Swans. The Swan's boom started proper in 96, i.e. the season Tony Locket carried them to a GF which was the start of a golden era for the club that arguably continues to this day, and 3 years before the Norths merged with Manly.

Sure maybe a bunch jumped earlier on because of the relocation to the CC, but you're drawing a long bow with no evidence at that point. Then again you don't have any evidence anyway, so yeah.

 

[t-ba]

All meaningless anecdotes.

Yeah, like you not knowing anyone who has swapped from the Bears to the Swans.

Glad we sorted out we're both using meaningless anecdotes here mate.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Because they're close to the city?

Look at a map of Sydney and point out to me where Marrickville and North Sydney are dude.

So theoretically, Roosters could become the biggest team on the North Shore within a couple of generations by marketing themselves better to the region's children, yeah?

Anyone born after 2000 wouldn't give a f**k about the Bears. They never saw them play so they have no emotional attachment. No reason why they cannot become avid Roosters fans. Just need to get the Roosters to get their attention. We've got a great game and onionball is on death's door, so no excuse for us not to become number one on North Shore. When the kids grow up they'll be able to travel to SFS to see the Roosters play 12 times a year.

South Melbourne relocated to Sydney in the early 80s. A generation later, around the late 90s, their attendances grew. The same thing can happen for the Roosters on the North Shore.

You mentioned Newtown and Balmain. That's Inner West. If people from the Inner West can get to the SCG to warch the Swans play fumbleball then there's no reason the Bulldogs and Tigers cannot get people from this region to travel to the SFS.

 

[t-ba]

So theoretically, Roosters could become the biggest team on the North Shore within a couple of generations by marketing themselves better to the region's children, yeah?

Anyone born after 2000 wouldn't give a f**k about the Bears. They never saw them play so they have no emotional attachment. No reason why they cannot become avid Roosters fans. Just need to get the Roosters to get their attention. We've got a great game and onionball is on death's door, so no excuse for us not to become number one on North Shore. When the kids grow up they'll be able to travel to SFS to see the Roosters play 12 times a year.

South Melbourne relocated to Sydney in the early 80s. A generation later, around the late 90s, their attendances grew. The same thing can happen for the Roosters on the North Shore.

Theoretically they could if the kid's parents weren't getting them invested in other sports like AFL, sure.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Theoretically they could if the kid's parents weren't getting them invested in other sports like AFL, sure.

Kids decide for themselves what they want to watch. Ratings for AwFuL are shithouse in Brisbane and Sydney. From that we can safely assume that
there aren't many kids flicking on the TV to watch fumbleball outside of the southern states.

Onionball has never been more invisible and irrelevant. Kids aren't flicking on Stan Sport to watch the Waratahs. Crowds for the Waratahs and Reds are shithouse.

 

[t-ba]

Kids decide for themselves what they want to watch. Ratings for AwFuL are shithouse in Brisbane and Sydney. From that we can safely assume that there aren't many kids flicking on the TV to watch fumbleball outside of the southern states.

Do they? Because I reckon AFL is shithouse and League is a better sport but the Children of Victoria aren't abandoning the AFL en masse. I wonder if it could have anything to do with their parents and their environment?

That's been the case for decades mate and yet no translation into crowds.

Kill clubs, lose a fair chunk of local fans forever, that's the deal dude.

 

[The Great Dane]

Yeah, like you not knowing anyone who has swapped from the Bears to the Swans.

Glad we sorted out we're both using meaningless anecdotes here mate.

You're misrepresenting what I said, and you know it.

You're the ones making the claim and as such the burden of proof is on you/your side, yet after 20 years you've failed to produce a single piece of hard evidence.

Doesn't that suggest something to you, like that maybe the advent of fans of rationalised sides randomly developing an interest in sports they had no prior interest in has, at least, been highly overstated.

 

[AdelaideSharky]

All meaningless anecdotes.

BTW, the timeline doesn't even really add up for a bunch of ex-Bears fans to jump on the Swans. The Swan's boom started proper in 96, i.e. the season Tony Locket carried them to a GF which was the start of a golden era for the club that arguably continues to this day, and 3 years before the Norths merged with Manly.

Sure maybe a bunch jumped earlier on because of the relocation to the CC, but you're drawing a long bow with no evidence at that point. Then again you don't have any evidence anyway, so yeah.

Think that was also due to fans who were opposed to the whole ARL/Super League War jumping on the Swans bandwagon too.

I knew quite a few people in that situation.

 

[t-ba]

You're misrepresenting what I said, and you know it.

You're the ones making the claim and as such the burden of proof is on you/your side, yet after 20 years you've failed to produce a single piece of hard evidence.

Doesn't that suggest something to you, like that maybe the advent of fans of rationalised sides randomly developing an interest in sports they had no prior interest in has, at least, been highly overstated.

What constitutes "hard evidence" mate?

If you didn't want anecdotes brought in why did you start with yours?

A survey of everyone sat on the hill for the Norths v Manly match in 1994?

Like Junior numbers only recovered from the SL war in the Lower North shore maybe 3 years ago from the mid 1990s. The North Shore Bombers have more adult teams than Lane Cove, Brothers and Willoughby combined. It's gone from one club (North Shore a very long time) having Junior teams to Mosman and Willoughby Auskick both having most age groups in the area.

Like, did this just happen out of thin air?

 

[The Great Dane]

Kill clubs, lose a fair chunk of local fans forever, that's the deal dude.

Sports/businesses lose fans/customers to natural attrition all the time. So it isn't really about how you lose them, it's about how good you are at replacing them once they go.

At the end of the day the real equation is if we cut a club can we replace the generation of fans that we lose along with that club, and going off the success of rationalisation in the AFL and America, and even RL's growth since the 90's, the answer is a resounding yes assuming that it's well handled.

The NRL's rationalisation in the 90's was extremely poorly handled.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Do they? Because I reckon AFL is shithouse and League is a better sport but the Children of Victoria aren't abandoning the AFL en masse. I wonder if it could have anything to do with their parents and their environment?

That's been the case for decades mate and yet no translation into crowds.

Kill clubs, lose a fair chunk of local fans forever, that's the deal dude.

Storm have developed a strong following in fumbleball HQ. Plenty of kids turn up to Melbourne Rectangular Arena to watch the Storm. The club is ahead of most Sydney clubs.

Crowds and TV ratings for Sydney's NRL clubs are better today than there were when the Bears, Magpies, Tigers, Dragons and Steelers were around.

 

[t-ba]

Storm have developed a strong following in fumbleball HQ. Plenty of kids turn up to Melbourne Rectangular Arena to watch the Storm. The club is ahead of most Sydney clubs.

They're at the pointy end of the table mate. Gold Coast and North QLD certainly weren't doing much better than most Sydney clubs before the pandemic.

Crowds and TV ratings for Sydney's NRL clubs are better today than there were when the Bears, Magpies, Tigers, Dragons and Steelers were around.

First off, bizarre that you've included Wollongong, a city further away from Sydney than the Gold Coast is from Brisbane, but I'll roll with it. 118 games

In 1994, there were 3.9 million people in Sydney and Wollongong. 1,419,511 people went to regular season games in the region. 96 games

In 2019, there were like 5.2 million people in Sydney and Wollongong. 1,299,296 people went to regular season games in the region. Now I'm no rocket surgeon but that seems like less to me despite a near 30% increase in the population!