Stalled and stagnant Sydney clubs

[Wb1234]

Arthurson and Quayle forced all four expansion sides to cover travel and accommodation costs for the broke-arse Sydney clubs across first grade and reserve grade. It bankrupted the clubs and was incredibly discriminatory. Cowboys, Reds and Warriors jumped ship to Super League to get away from this discriminatory practice. Super League didn't want the Crushers so they were f**ked. The sooks who whinge about Super League should shut up and be grateful their Sydney clubs were never treated so poorly. If the Sydney-centric ARL didn't treat non-Sydney clubs with so much contempt then there wouldn't have been a Super League War.

You know that the idea of super league came from the broncos ? Then they convinced everyone else to join.

the only reason we had a super league war was because of the broncos.

and once they got the pay tv rights cheap they killed off the reds rams mariners. And we also lost good clubs like Gold Coast south’s norths and the crushers

 

[AdelaideSharky]

You know that the idea of super league came from the broncos ? Then they convinced everyone else to join.

the only reason we had a super league war was because of the broncos.

and once they got the pay tv rights cheap they killed off the reds rams mariners. And we also lost good clubs like Gold Coast south’s norths and the crushers

This × 100

 

[flippikat]

Wellington is not real big though. It wouldn’t be much bigger than say Townsville

Depends on how you slice it - The Wellington region suffers in population comparisons due to being sliced into "satellite cities"
(Figures approx, rounded, from Wikipedia)

Townsville = 180,000 population

Wellington City = 216,000 population
(CBD, inner & fringe suburbs, plus Tawa & Newlands)

Seems similar, but it you add neighbouring cities that are well within driving distance AND have regular electrified commuter trains running:

Lower Hutt City = 112,000
(Petone to Taita/Stokes Valley)

Porirua City = 60,000
(Kenepuru to Pukerua Bay)

Kapiti Coast District = 58,000
(Paekakariki to Otaki)

Upper Hutt City = 44,000
(Silverstream to Te Marua)

Thats a total of 274,000 in "satellite cities" - not counting over the hill in the Wairarapa, technically the Wellington region too, but you have to traverse the winding Akatarua hill road & public transport is to & from Wellington is severely limited.

You get a true immediate catchment of 490,000 - which is way more than Townsville - and actually more than Christchurch's singular city population of 392,000.

 

[Colk]

Depends on how you slice it - The Wellington region suffers in population comparisons due to being sliced into "satellite cities"
(Figures approx, rounded, from Wikipedia)

Townsville = 180,000 population

Wellington City = 216,000 population
(CBD, inner & fringe suburbs, plus Tawa & Newlands)

Seems similar, but it you add neighbouring cities that are well within driving distance AND have regular electrified commuter trains running:

Lower Hutt City = 112,000
(Petone to Taita/Stokes Valley)

Porirua City = 60,000
(Kenepuru to Pukerua Bay)

Kapiti Coast District = 58,000
(Paekakariki to Otaki)

Upper Hutt City = 44,000
(Silverstream to Te Marua)

Thats a total of 274,000 in "satellite cities" - not counting over the hill in the Wairarapa, technically the Wellington region too, but you have to traverse the winding Akatarua hill road & public transport is to & from Wellington is severely limited.

You get a true immediate catchment of 490,000 - which is way more than Townsville - and actually more than Christchurch's singular city population of 392,000.

Ok cool. I remember going to some of those places and they are incredibly beautiful. In fact the whole country is.

I didn’t know they were so linked together. What about Wellington and those other cities. Are they mad about their sports - for example would you get parochial support.

What about Christchurch? Would you be able to link surrounding areas with that city?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You know that the idea of super league came from the broncos ? Then they convinced everyone else to join.

the only reason we had a super league war was because of the broncos.

and once they got the pay tv rights cheap they killed off the reds rams mariners. And we also lost good clubs like Gold Coast south’s norths and the crushers

A Super League concept was devised in the 80s and 90s by News Ltd and NSWRL. Arthurson and Quayle were keen on rationalising Sydney.

Broncos were treated poorly by the NSWRL, so of course they jumped at the idea of joining a new competition that didn't force them to play all of their finals games in Sydney.

News Ltd had no choice but to push through with their Super League competition after Arthurson and Quayle were stupid enough to hand the pay TV rights over to Packer for free when he acquired the FTA rights in the early 90s. That's right, Arthurson and Quayle were so stupid they handed the pay TV rights to Packer before Foxtel, Optus Vision and Galaxy existed. A couple of short sighted dickheads who didn't have a clue and made Gallop look competent.

 

[Menaiduck]

Uh Arko and Quayle were the ones who put a Perth team in the arl. It was news ltd who killed them off and moved them to Melbourne.

and the Perth union side that was a major failure

Perth Union side was very popular when super rugby was at its peek. A long time ago I attended a game against a kiwi side in Perth and there were 34000 there. It was a draw and an amazing atmosphere. The game fell away in popularity when the aru fell in a heap. The game is still strong there.

 

[Menaiduck]

Perth Union side was very popular when super rugby was at its peek. A long time ago I attended a game against a kiwi side in Perth and there were 34000 there. It was a draw and an amazing atmosphere. The game fell away in popularity when the aru fell in a heap. The game is still strong there.

Strong as in player participation not crowds.

 

[flippikat]

I didn’t know they were so linked together. What about Wellington and those other cities. Are they mad about their sports - for example would you get parochial support.

What about Christchurch? Would you be able to link surrounding areas with that city?

I think the region would get behind a team initially, but the test is after the novelty wears off. Wellington is especially fickle for sports

One BIG thing Wellington got right is the stadium location - as all the commuter train lines to the north (running thru those cities Wellington-Porirua-Kapiti, Wellington-Lower Hutt-Upper Hutt and Wellington-Johnsonville for Wellington City's own Northern suburbs) all converge at the stadium - as do the buses that service Wellington City's West/South/East.

However, it's a multipurpose oval with no roof (lousy for 8pm local / 6 PM Sydney Friday kickoffs in midwinter, if the NRL want that slot filled with NZ-hosted games)

Christchurch seems to have more of a sports culture than we have, and their new stadium (built soon) will be in the city AND rectangular AND fully enclosed - better viewing, better crowd comfort for a NZ winter night - and that Friday night timeslot. Not sure how that ties in with their public transport, though.

As for surrounding districts, mostly rural/semi-rural - you may see some make the trip into the "big smoke", but rural Canterbury is heartland RU territory - and I'd wager they're more likely to make that trek for a Crusaders game than a southern NRL team.

 

[AdelaideSharky]

Strong as in player participation not crowds.

Perth's weird. The Force got bigger crowds at the old Subiaco Oval than they do at HBF Park which is more suitable for the sport.

 

[Menaiduck]

Perth's weird. The Force got bigger crowds at the old Subiaco Oval than they do at HBF Park which is more suitable for the sport.

Yep the game was at subiaco

 

[Colk]

I think the region would get behind a team initially, but the test is after the novelty wears off. Wellington is especially fickle for sports

One BIG thing Wellington got right is the stadium location - as all the commuter train lines to the north (running thru those cities Wellington-Porirua-Kapiti, Wellington-Lower Hutt-Upper Hutt and Wellington-Johnsonville for Wellington City's own Northern suburbs) all converge at the stadium - as do the buses that service Wellington City's West/South/East.

However, it's a multipurpose oval with no roof (lousy for 8pm local / 6 PM Sydney Friday kickoffs in midwinter, if the NRL want that slot filled with NZ-hosted games)

Christchurch seems to have more of a sports culture than we have, and their new stadium (built soon) will be in the city AND rectangular AND fully enclosed - better viewing, better crowd comfort for a NZ winter night - and that Friday night timeslot. Not sure how that ties in with their public transport, though.

As for surrounding districts, mostly rural/semi-rural - you may see some make the trip into the "big smoke", but rural Canterbury is heartland RU territory - and I'd wager they're more likely to make that trek for a Crusaders game than a southern NRL team.

Hmm interesting. So there are positives and negatives with both. What would you lean towards?

 

[flippikat]

You know that the idea of super league came from the broncos ? Then they convinced everyone else to join.

the only reason we had a super league war was because of the broncos.

and once they got the pay tv rights cheap they killed off the reds rams mariners. And we also lost good clubs like Gold Coast south’s norths and the crushers

Regardless of where the idea of Superleague originated, the Reds, Cowboys & Warriors wouldn't have joined it if they didn't have concerns/greviences of their own.

Yes, the Broncos & News Ltd appealed to their sense of unfairness.. but if the ARL had taken action to allay that then the idea of a rebel competition would never have had any traction at those clubs.

 

[Colk]

Yep the game was at subiaco

In saying that Subiaco is pretty easy to get to - the area not specifically the ground. I haven’t been to HBF Park - is that easy to get to?

 

[Colk]

Regardless of where the idea of Superleague originated, the Reds, Cowboys & Warriors wouldn't have joined it if they didn't have concerns/greviences of their own.

Yes, the Broncos & News Ltd appealed to their sense of unfairness.. but if the ARL had taken action to allay that then the idea of a rebel competition would never have had any traction at those clubs.

Well said. It is not a coincidence that the majority of Super League clubs were not from Sydney.

 

[Perth Red]

Yep the game was at subiaco

I suspect the top end of town union types preferred the wine at Subiaco restaurants to the Swan lager at east perth cafes lol. The demise of Forces crowds coincided with their terrible form mixed with the rumor of their impending doom that gathered more and more momentum as the news of a Melbourne side grew (that sounds familiar lol),
Mind you only RU would be stupid enough to cut the club with the richest backer in the country and who was offering to fund all Jnr development in Australia lol.

I just cant see NZ2 being viable, let alone nZ3. I get the sense now Vlandys has landed the SkyNZ increase the bluster Abdo came out with about NZ2 has cooled off and they have realised what a financial risk it would be. Unless a very big money backer or consortium gets behind it I just cant see it, Populations too small to be a second sport and lack of big corporate support. Their cause is hardly being helped by the on and off field form of the Warriors either. Shame as Id love to see a second NZ side.

 

[Perth Red]

In saying that Subiaco is pretty easy to get to - the area not specifically the ground. I haven’t been to HBF Park - is that easy to get to?

yes. You can get a train to within 5mins of the gates. There's more parking around there as well than Subiaco. Its just not an affluent area like Subiaco is so may put off the toffs.

 

[flippikat]

Hmm interesting. So there are positives and negatives with both. What would you lean towards?

Christchurch, without a doubt.

If the NRL want a team to help fill that 6pm AET Friday slot (easing the pressure on Sydney clubs who hate hosting it), then a modern, covered, rectangular stadium means crowd comfort on cold NZ winter nights, and the prospect of great playing conditions & entertaining footy for those TV audiences.

Add to that Christchurch has a successful sporting culture, and Auckland v Christchurch is the biggest sporting rivalry in NZ, then it's a slam dunk.

Wellington perhaps makes sense as the 3rd NZ NRL team - if that eventuates, but NOT the 2nd one.

And I say that as a proud Wellingtonian.
(May any fellow Welly folks here forgive me!)

 

[Colk]

I suspect the top end of town union types preferred the wine at Subiaco restaurants to the Swan lager at east perth cafes lol. The demise of Forces crowds coincided with their terrible form mixed with the rumor of their impending doom that gathered more and more momentum as the news of a Melbourne side grew (that sounds familiar lol),
Mind you only RU would be stupid enough to cut the club with the richest backer in the country and who was offering to fund all Jnr development in Australia lol.

I just cant see NZ2 being viable, let alone nZ3. I get the sense now Vlandys has landed the SkyNZ increase the bluster Abdo came out with about NZ2 has cooled off and they have realised what a financial risk it would be. Unless a very big money backer or consortium gets behind it I just cant see it, Populations too small to be a second sport and lack of big corporate support. Their cause is hardly being helped by the on and off field form of the Warriors either. Shame as Id love to see a second NZ side.

The corporate support is the big concern.

 

[Colk]

Christchurch, without a doubt.

If the NRL want a team to help fill that 6pm AET Friday slot (easing the pressure on Sydney clubs who hate hosting it), then a modern, covered, rectangular stadium means crowd comfort on cold NZ winter nights, and the prospect of great playing conditions & entertaining footy for those TV audiences.

Add to that Christchurch has a successful sporting culture, and Auckland v Christchurch is the biggest sporting rivalry in NZ, then it's a slam dunk.

Wellington perhaps makes sense as the 3rd NZ NRL team - if that eventuates, but NOT the 2nd one.

And I say that as a proud Wellingtonian.
(May any fellow Welly folks here forgive me!)

Laughing at the last sentence.

 

[Perth Red]

Well said. It is not a coincidence that the majority of Super League clubs were not from Sydney.

I got talking to a Reds board member from that period. he said there was massive division in the reds board about which way to go. The thing that actually caused the problems for the Reds was the late introduction of reserve grade. They felt they could cover the costs of travel for the main grade and U18's but adding a third side was financially crippling. News got them over the line by offering a massive Sunday Times sponsorship deal that Cummins with his Cash Convertor sponsorship couldn't match and that finally got the board to agree, though half of them quit in disagreement the same week.
It destroyed the game here, we went from 10k registered players to less than 1k in space of 5 years. Taken us 25 years to get something like where we was back then.