state of Rugby League (GB)

[WireMan]

I'm sure someone could write a PhD on the differences in demography, concepts of identity, economics, etc. that means lower league sport is embraced and supported by the public and individual communities in the UK in a way that just isn't in Australia.



Central Coast are using the lower leagues in the sense that the new team will be the current NSW Cup side, the North Sydney Bears, renamed and relocated to the Central Coast and playing a couple of games at North Sydney Oval (I think).

I'm not sure how 'live' the Wellington / Southern Orcas bid is anymore. Central Queensland is the other option and they have a team based in Rockhampton playing in the QCup as the CQ Comets.

it would be a boring Phd though!!
I can't argue with you about Aussie feelings so i won't. I'll bow to your superior knowledge. Does make it more fun though (unless you get relegated)

Guess we'll have to see which off the NSW cup or QCup teams is the best for the NRL. My opinion is Central Queensland and WA Reds but that is for a different thread in a different forum at a different time!!

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

it would be a boring Phd though!!
I can't argue with you about Aussie feelings so i won't. I'll bow to your superior knowledge. Does make it more fun though (unless you get relegated)

I think you'd be hard pressed to find an interesting PhD! Though I have a mate who's girlfriend was doing a Masters on pornography...

Plenty of examples here in Oz of teams that have gone from the big time to being considered in "inferior competitons" -- the whole of the Brisbane comp gradually became considered one, for example, and saw crowds and other support dwindle as a result -- North Sydney down from 10k+ crowds in the ARL to a few hundred diehards in the NSW Cup.

Guess we'll have to see which off the NSW cup or QCup teams is the best for the NRL. My opinion is Central Queensland and WA Reds but that is for a different thread in a different forum at a different time!!

Yep, way OT - but a fourth Qld team is a must. I'm sure Nine / Foxtel would very warmly welcome such an expansion - though they may favour one which draws in part of the Brisbane market as opposed to a regional audience. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Newie is God's Country]

We need four more franchises in the UK to make 16 teams. Then you have 32 clubs all up in both Oz and the UK. The next step is to make a champions league style competition involving the top 4 clubs from each league each season. The rest play in a challenge cup international knockout comp. Then the game becomes a viable commodity and prestige comes back into the game internationally.

 

[WireMan]

We need four more franchises in the UK to make 16 teams. Then you have 32 clubs all up in both Oz and the UK. The next step is to make a champions league style competition involving the top 4 clubs from each league each season. The rest play in a challenge cup international knockout comp. Then the game becomes a viable commodity and prestige comes back into the game internationally.

That would be brilliant! I believe we are looking for 16 teams, and as teams bring through more younsters we may get a pool of talent big enough to support them.
Even if we stay at 14 though some kind of expanded World club Challenge would really benfit the game.
European competition in Football and Union has really helped them games grow. ESL teams need to play the best to improve, therfore improving the international team so we can at least offer a bit of competition in future world cups!!

Its always nice to play 'exotic' teams. The atmosphere in Warrington or Wigan when an NRL team visits would be a superb advert for the game.

 

[deluded pom?]

We need four more franchises in the UK to make 16 teams. Then you have 32 clubs all up in both Oz and the UK. The next step is to make a champions league style competition involving the top 4 clubs from each league each season. The rest play in a challenge cup international knockout comp. Then the game becomes a viable commodity and prestige comes back into the game internationally.

We already have 13 teams in the UK. If we made it up to 16 teams in the UK then what happens to the Catalans? A decent idea only hampered by lack of time in the calendar and the time difference.

 

[nadera78]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find an interesting PhD! Though I have a mate who's girlfriend was doing a Masters on pornography...
QUOTE]

Did she have to do much hands on work experience?

 

[cumberlandsashes81]

Did she have to do much hands on work experience?

All I know is they had loads of it lying around their flat... By the end of it I think he had enough of porn to last a lifetime.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

All I know is they had loads of it lying around their flat... By the end of it I think he had enough of porn to last a lifetime.

Theres never enough

 

[Coastbloke]

I haven't watched the link, but PNG fourth...??

I would have France and Fiji before them surely - and regardless of where France came in RLWC08...

 

[JasonE]

The issue which keeps dragging the game down is the obsessive and unrelenting desire to waste money on overseas imports.

Despite there being no relegation for three years there seems to be no slowing down of it and the standard of player going over is getting worse and worse.

What clubs & fans need to realise is that Super League is not English Premier League !
It does not attract the best players in the world, Super League attracts cast offs, has beens and never hasbeens.

Therefore they should be investing all energies into the local talent and looking to the National Leagues.

The only positive i see at the moment is the players coming through at around 16/17yo could be one of the best yet.

 

[WireMan]

The issue which keeps dragging the game down is the obsessive and unrelenting desire to waste money on overseas imports.

Despite there being no relegation for three years there seems to be no slowing down of it and the standard of player going over is getting worse and worse.

What clubs & fans need to realise is that Super League is not English Premier League !
It does not attract the best players in the world, Super League attracts cast offs, has beens and never hasbeens.

Therefore they should be investing all energies into the local talent and looking to the National Leagues.

The only positive i see at the moment is the players coming through at around 16/17yo could be one of the best yet.

The 16/17 year olds are still to young to play super league. These things take time. Imports are used as one of two things:
One. To make up the numbers. Yes we know there not the best, but if you need a prop, you need a prop. You can get someone who isn't very good and Engish, or someone who can at least catch and tackle who is an Aussie. Esp. with relegation it was a no brainer.

Two. As a big name player to get the crowds in. For example here at Wire we have had Johns and Langer. Yes we know they are old but they are top players and we want to see them play! Hence the interest in Lockyer.

 

[JasonE]

The 16/17 year olds are still to young to play super league. These things take time. Imports are used as one of two things:
One. To make up the numbers. Yes we know there not the best, but if you need a prop, you need a prop. You can get someone who isn't very good and Engish, or someone who can at least catch and tackle who is an Aussie. Esp. with relegation it was a no brainer.

Two. As a big name player to get the crowds in. For example here at Wire we have had Johns and Langer. Yes we know they are old but they are top players and we want to see them play! Hence the interest in Lockyer.

Thanks for confirming everything i said in my post !

There is no excuse for the amount of imports in Super League no matter how anyone puts a spin on it and the result has a flow on effect.

Less British players exposed to professionalism means less depth for National team.
Less depth for National team means poor quality team.
Poor team means poor results at International level which leads to zero recognition in the media.

 

[WireMan]

Thanks for confirming everything i said in my post !

There is no excuse for the amount of imports in Super League no matter how anyone puts a spin on it and the result has a flow on effect.

Less British players exposed to professionalism means less depth for National team.
Less depth for National team means poor quality team.
Poor team means poor results at International level which leads to zero recognition in the media.

No problems!!

However... Less British players exposed to professionalism due to there being less British players. Thats the problem. There are more sports to play over here!! In the past, get some average English players, get relegated. Not good planning.

Now no relegation, a greater risk can be made, more money can be invested into the youth set up. As these players come through, the number of imports will go down. The number of imports allowed per team is going to be reduced. It just takes time to filter through.

RE the thread title. The game is healthy, and is getting stronger.

 

[VictoryFC]

Thanks for confirming everything i said in my post !

There is no excuse for the amount of imports in Super League no matter how anyone puts a spin on it and the result has a flow on effect.

Less British players exposed to professionalism means less depth for National team.
Less depth for National team means poor quality team.
Poor team means poor results at International level which leads to zero recognition in the media.

I disagree with some of that. I don't mean to compare apples and oranges, but I must. Football in England has been tagged with the same problem; "too many foreigners are why our national team keeps failing on the big stage". This ofcourse is not the reason why they're failing. The impact of foreigners (players and coaches) on the EPL has, almost definitely, improved the standard of the top English internationals, exposing them to different styles in tactics, approach etc and it has helped these players accomodate when playing world class opposition.

Great foreign players make local players better just by being around. And this supposed malaise in English football was the reason they were failing? Hmm, its taken an Italian manager for them to realize that you're supposed to make things a bit more professional, take risks with player selection, change things tactically, and understand opposition better. And England have gone from missing out on Euros in 2008, to becoming amongst the favourites for 2010.

With that said, I agree, the local game in England should compose of Englishmen by and large, but there is a place for quality internationals; not only to raise the standard of the competition, but so that English players can learn from the best in the game.

And Wireman...there are more sports to play over there? Hmmm. We play exactly the same sports, plus Aus rules added to that. And we're doing it on 20 million, compared to the 60 mill you lot over there have.

 

[Bombay Devils RLFC]

Thanks for confirming everything i said in my post !

There is no excuse for the amount of imports in Super League no matter how anyone puts a spin on it and the result has a flow on effect.

Less British players exposed to professionalism means less depth for National team.
Less depth for National team means poor quality team.
Poor team means poor results at International level which leads to zero recognition in the media.

But wait up didn't the english rl ban all australians playing there in the 1970 or 80's. I am sure this was the case as it was designed to stop the australian clubs pinching the best english players.

So when was it that GB last won a series against Aust? That's right about 1971 if I am not correct. So simply banning imports is not going to make the english game better.

If the english game is to get better they simply need to attract better quality kids to the sport to start and then provide the proper training and development structure from an early age.

The super league then needs to be this. 16 teams is not the answer but at least 8 solid quality ones that means there is good competition each week. In the NRL there is no let up with each game as nearly as hard to win as any other.

The english game does not have the talent for 4 sides little alone 16 so there needs to be a be a complete restructure here to make this work for all.

I know this a lot but the current system is never going to work.

 

[Newie is God's Country]

Richie Myler and Sam Burgess are both kids who could become the best in the world. The talent is there. It just has to be developed properly. I don't see the SL as inferior at all. Just underdone technically. That comes down to different ruck interpretations among other things. I absolutely love watching the ESL here in Oz. Very fast and open. England were unable to get takcle dominance in Australia because they are so used to tackle then break whereas in The NRL you get a second or two longer to hold the attacker down to reset your line. The great Jamie Peacock was outstanding. Am so annoyed JP never played here in the NRL. HE is an incredible talent.

 

[WireMan]

The game over here is played a lot faster and there are different rules concerning playing the ball. That is why there is always a debate about who the ref is. A Euro ref lets different things go. The longer time in the tackle gives defences longer to set, so sometimes the only way to score is to kick it into the corner.

I think this leads to a better game to watch and one problem with the NRL was the speed of play. This season with two refs the game has sped up and is now better to watch.

Victory: Ok we have the same sports, but we ain't got 60 million. Rugby is played in two areas and Football is the dominant game. The pool of talent playing rugby is very small.

Bombay: Don't understand your comments, reducing to 8 teams would make the area playing the sport smaller, decreasing the numbers playing. We are attracking good quality kids, but the're kids so it will take time to come through. Also if you look at our league, take Celtic out and everyone else is close. There is no let up each week here now also.

 

[Bombay Devils RLFC]

The game over here is played a lot faster and there are different rules concerning playing the ball. That is why there is always a debate about who the ref is. A Euro ref lets different things go. The longer time in the tackle gives defences longer to set, so sometimes the only way to score is to kick it into the corner.

I think this leads to a better game to watch and one problem with the NRL was the speed of play. This season with two refs the game has sped up and is now better to watch.

Victory: Ok we have the same sports, but we ain't got 60 million. Rugby is played in two areas and Football is the dominant game. The pool of talent playing rugby is very small.

Bombay: Don't understand your comments, reducing to 8 teams would make the area playing the sport smaller, decreasing the numbers playing. We are attracking good quality kids, but the're kids so it will take time to come through. Also if you look at our league, take Celtic out and everyone else is close. There is no let up each week here now also.

The 8 team suggestion was to improve the quality of play each week especailly if the teams must be predominately english players. From what I have seen there is still a big gap between them however I do not live there so I will take your word that they are close. Less teams means the higher quailty players will be more concentrated.

Also take you point about reducing the area however this is not the debate rather how to improve the standard of the game in GB.

As an Australian I want to see the game internationally as competitive as possible. We need a strong GB side so they become true battles and more importantly people from both countries look forward to these contests each time they are played. Lets face it there is nothing better than an Aust v GB series in any sport.

 

[WireMan]

The 8 team suggestion was to improve the quality of play each week especailly if the teams must be predominately english players. From what I have seen there is still a big gap between them however I do not live there so I will take your word that they are close. Less teams means the higher quailty players will be more concentrated.

Also take you point about reducing the area however this is not the debate rather how to improve the standard of the game in GB.

As an Australian I want to see the game internationally as competitive as possible. We need a strong GB side so they become true battles and more importantly people from both countries look forward to these contests each time they are played. Lets face it there is nothing better than an Aust v GB series in any sport.

True about the Aus vs GB competition. I think its because we take similar sports seriously. I'd say it was two all, we are better at Football and Rugby Union, you have Cricket and Rugby League. Makes the matches better.

We cannot cut the amount of teams, its like merging half of the Sydney teams!! The talent is coming through.

I don't want a competitive international scene, i want us to beat the Aussies every single time in everything!!!! :lol:

 

[St.John]

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyle...RY_NAME=rleague/09/07/09/RUGBYL_Finances.html