Steve O'Keefe - When will he get his shot at test cricket?

[Red Bear]

I love it how Lyon is now 'bowling pies'.

He took a 5-fer in the second test and was crucial at keeping it tight during the Ashes so the quicks could rip in.

The desire to see him fail is so strong it isn't funny.

Agreed completely, and has been a problem with selectors mentality. A few months of good bowling from Lyon suddenly doesn't matter when he has one poor showing (on a flat pitch against a team not even considering scoring runs).

 

[oldmancraigy]

Is he kind of like Vetorri then?

Dan Vettori had a strike rate of 73 in first class cricket, where O'Keefe is at 57 (that's outstanding).


Sure, Nathan Lyon has had some decent bowling outings of late, but it's all off the back of the quicks. Whenever he is called upon to threaten off his own bat, it seems predictably easy for batsmen to play him off the back foot, and just not score - their wicket is not at threat.

O'Keefe is a far superior bowler, who has just never been given a shot. Complete mystery.

 

[JJ]

Dan Vettori had a strike rate of 73 in first class cricket, where O'Keefe is at 57 (that's outstanding).


Sure, Nathan Lyon has had some decent bowling outings of late, but it's all off the back of the quicks. Whenever he is called upon to threaten off his own bat, it seems predictably easy for batsmen to play him off the back foot, and just not score - their wicket is not at threat.

O'Keefe is a far superior bowler, who has just never been given a shot. Complete mystery.

hmmm, yep, but In Vetorri's defence, he has 300 odd test wickets, and most of his first class cricket is probably test cricket. I am not a huge fan of his, but he was a world class all-rounder, and carried NZ on his back as best bowler and best bat and captain for several years when we were awful...

Lots of people seem to have good 1st class records in Aust, Lyons is a decent bowler tbh, but the likes of Beer, Doherty etc had me wondering

 

[herbert henry1908]

Lots of people seem to have good 1st class records in Aust, Lyons is a decent bowler tbh, but the likes of Beer, Doherty etc had me wondering

Not lots of finger spinners.


Theres isn't a finger spinner within cooee of O'Keefe in the last 10 years. Maybe even longer.


To average 25 with the ball in Australian conditions as a finger spinner is special stuff indeed.

 

[JJ]

Not lots of finger spinners.


Theres isn't a finger spinner within cooee of O'Keefe in the last 10 years. Maybe even longer.


To average 25 with the ball in Australian conditions as a finger spinner is special stuff indeed.

Fair enough, just grumpy that someone was suggesting he was better than Vetorri...

Obvious question then, is he a merkin? How else could one explain Beer?

 

[simmo1]

You can't compare Lyons first class record with O'Keefe's when for pretty much his whole career hes been playing against Test teams and not state teams.

Lyons done a good job considering even good right arm offies generally get pasted in Australia (Swann, Ashwin, Murali).

 

[herbert henry1908]

You can't compare Lyons first class record with O'Keefe's when for pretty much his whole career hes been playing against Test teams and not state teams.

Lyons done a good job considering even good right arm offies generally get pasted in Australia (Swann, Ashwin, Murali).

I haven't seen anyone compare those stats.


But here's a comparison for you


61 wickets @ 44.9 s/r 82 in 24 matches


123 wickets @ 24.5 s/r 57 in 38 matches



That's lyons non test F/C record v O'Keefes shield record.


And left arm finger spinners typically get pasted in Australia too. ( beer, Doherty even vettori got smashed in Australia)


Not Stephen O'Keefe though.

 

[simmo1]

I haven't seen anyone compare those stats.


But here's a comparison for you


61 wickets @ 44.9 s/r 82 in 24 matches


123 wickets @ 24.5 s/r 57 in 38 matches



That's lyons non test F/C record v O'Keefes shield record.

How many of them were state games in the past 2 years? A lot of those games will be bullshit warm up games on tour. Also SCG as opposed to Adelaide as a home ground helps.

And left arm finger spinners typically get pasted in Australia too. ( beer, Doherty even vettori got smashed in Australia)


Not Stephen O'Keefe though.

lol, Beer and Doherty get pasted because they're shit, not because they were left arm.

 

[simmo1]

For the record I'm not saying O'Keefes bad or anything, he probably should have played at least one test somewhere, and imo should be second spinner for subcontinent tests. I just think Lyon has shown himself more than capable, and is constantly improving.

Debutant spinners always get targetted and can take a few tests to settle in, so happy to stick with the bloke who's done his job well for a year now.

 

[herbert henry1908]

How many of them were state games in the past 2 years? A lot of those games will be bullshit warm up games on tour. Also SCG as opposed to Adelaide as a home ground helps.

Most are state games in the past two years.

He only played 5 shield games before being selected and there's only been 4 tour matches.

So 15.


And in case you missed it O'Keefe just recorded his career best match. On the Adelaide oval.

Also the SCG is known as a turning wicket. O'Keefe is a flight bowler not much of a turner at all.

lol, Beer and Doherty get pasted because they're shit, not because they were left arm.

You're right about beer and Doherty being shit. Though their shitness is about on par with Lyons at shield level.



BTW , what's the excuse for vettori being smashed in Australia?

 

[herbert henry1908]

Debutant spinners always get targetted and can take a few tests to settle in, so happy to stick with the bloke who's done his job well for a year now.

A team would never improve if that was the attitude taken.



If someone's better they're worth the risk.

 

[typicalfan]

Must be why Australia are so good right now.

 

[benched tiger]

And this is what's wrong with most of the public opinion when it comes to spin bowling. Such a lack of understanding.

Did you actually watch Lyon bowl ? even the commentators were crictical of job he was doing along with his lack of variation.Good for you supporting Lyon while his bowling performance was mediocre but dont make out your some kind of knowledgeable spin guru when former test players where even crictical of his bowling display

 

[Twizzle]

please not not post unsourced allegation about SOK, we cannot host potential libel which is why it has to be removed

if you source it properly then the 3rd party is responsible, not LU

cheers

 

[JJ]

TBH, on a turning wicket Lyon probably a better option... sounds like O'Keefe is a Vetorri type bowler, demanding but not likely to rip through test lineups - Vetorri of course offered us so much more, genuine bowling all-rounder (averaged 40 with the bast for a few years I think), captain etc

Lyon has shown he can finish tests off in the right conditions, something Vetorri couldn't often do (and so I assume O'Keefe) - but you'd have thought a bowler with that record would be in the squad and play under certain conditions (ahead of Beer, Doherty, and that kid that played in England)... Lyon had some shabby treatment and deserves some loyalty now

 

[herbert henry1908]

TBH, on a turning wicket Lyon probably a better option... sounds like O'Keefe is a Vetorri type bowler, demanding but not likely to rip through test lineups - Vetorri of course offered us so much more, genuine bowling all-rounder (averaged 40 with the bast for a few years I think), captain etc

Lyon has shown he can finish tests off in the right conditions, something Vetorri couldn't often do (and so I assume O'Keefe) - but you'd have thought a bowler with that record would be in the squad and play under certain conditions (ahead of Beer, Doherty, and that kid that played in England)... Lyon had some shabby treatment and deserves some loyalty now

That's a fair assessment but at the same time we shouldn't be scared to adopt a horses for courses strategy.


Lyon has done fairly well but if there's a view a pitch may not suit him I don't think that its a big deal to leave him out.

 

[JJ]

That's a fair assessment but at the same time we shouldn't be scared to adopt a horses for courses strategy.


Lyon has done fairly well but if there's a view a pitch may not suit him I don't think that its a big deal to leave him out.

yep, exactly my thinking

Doesn't seem like O'Keefe will be likely to get a go now, as Lyon leads the team song, doesn't he... usually makes one a lock?

 

[Twizzle]

yes he does

 

[Mr Spock!]

Lyon has been dropped for nuffies like Maxwell, Doherty and Agar and does his job, which is pretty much containment.

Why every other spinner bar Boyce and SOK has had a go at international cricket is beyond me.

 

[TheParraboy]

TBH, on a turning wicket Lyon probably a better option... sounds like O'Keefe is a Vetorri type bowler, demanding but not likely to rip through test lineups - Vetorri of course offered us so much more, genuine bowling all-rounder (averaged 40 with the bast for a few years I think), captain etc

Lyon has shown he can finish tests off in the right conditions, something Vetorri couldn't often do (and so I assume O'Keefe) - but you'd have thought a bowler with that record would be in the squad and play under certain conditions (ahead of Beer, Doherty, and that kid that played in England)... Lyon had some shabby treatment and deserves some loyalty now

which tests?