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Superthread XXXVII

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Bazal

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More facts from the great man. Contrary to belief the spotted hyena is not a cowardly scavenger but in many instances the apex predator of the African plain and have been known to chase lions away from a kill.

This is correct. There are also recorded instances of hyena packs killing lions that attacked them. And one instance of a pack killing a lioness that went after some leopard cubs. They had nothing to do with the cubs, the leopard was out hunting, and yet the hyenas defended the cubs as their own. No one knows why, but there you go.
 

Pugzley

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More facts from the great man. Contrary to belief the spotted hyena is not a cowardly scavenger but in many instances the apex predator of the African plain and have been known to chase lions away from a kill.

National Geographic should have replaced Sir David Attenborough with you, AG.
 

Hallatia

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Lions regularly engage in infanticide and murder. They are not as noble as they are painted to be. That said, ecologically everything they do makes sense, but practically all other big cats get a bad wrap compared to them...

Also, thankfully, sport hunting in Africa is dead...
unfortunately, it's not and a lot of hunting is still perfectly legal.

There is a massive fight to make rhino horn trade illegal, but even that has proved difficult and the pro-trade people spurt a lot of nonsense which is unfortunately listened to by those with power.

http://www.huntinglegends.com
that website is quite informative, they seem to believe that there are economic and ecological benefits of sport hunting too. They of course make a killing from it in (very unfortunately) multiple ways. Check out the price list
http://www.huntinglegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2012_Hunting_Legends_Prices_Mailer.pdf
 

Hallatia

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I love Africa, when I find someone willing to go with me, I am going to go over there and breed rhinos into the wild. And maybe hunt some poachers too
 

Monk

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I love Africa, when I find someone willing to go with me, I am going to go over there and breed rhinos into the wild. And maybe hunt some poachers too

I often bless the rains down in Africa

J-D-in-Bath-scrubs-287506_382_249.jpg
 

BDR

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unfortunately, it's not and a lot of hunting is still perfectly legal.

There is a massive fight to make rhino horn trade illegal, but even that has proved difficult and the pro-trade people spurt a lot of nonsense which is unfortunately listened to by those with power.

http://www.huntinglegends.com
that website is quite informative, they seem to believe that there are economic and ecological benefits of sport hunting too. They of course make a killing from it in (very unfortunately) multiple ways. Check out the price list
http://www.huntinglegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2012_Hunting_Legends_Prices_Mailer.pdf

What they say makes sense for the U.S. hunting trade, going after deer or what have you, but it's ridiculous that they think that killing endangered savannah predators is in any way justifiable. merkins.
 

Bazal

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It still happens, but statistically speaking, it's insignificant compared to poaching and habitat destruction. You will never eradicate sport hunting, but thankfully most hunters these days are aware of the importance of ecosystems and whatnot. There are, of course, still cowboys...but honestly, in terms of impact, modern hunting is all about the lowest possible.

That's not to say I condone it or would personally take part in it, but I think people certainly have an unfair opinion of hunting in general. Look at some of the costs on that page, for example. In many ways you can see this as a good thing. Honestly, what business making that much money is going to allow their business (ie the animals) to expire? I am always concerned to see endangered species on a list like that, though, and this is where people need to work with hunters and the like to really get them off that list. Like it or not, I actually think that ecologically and politically hunting will be a huge protector for many species.
 

BDR

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I have no problem with hunting for food, I have done it before and I'm sure I'll do it again. Hunting for sport is a geniused and cruel way to get your kicks.
 

Hallatia

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more and more rhinos are being murdered in Africa every year primarily because of demand from Asia for their horns, and it's the horn stump which is the most valuable part and to get to it, the rhino has to die. But even cutting the horn is bad for the rhino as the rhino depends on the point of its horn for its survival
 

Hallatia

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I have no problem with hunting for food, I have done it before and I'm sure I'll do it again. Hunting for sport is a geniused and cruel way to get your kicks.
I am yet to hunt for food, but I agree entirely with what you're saying
 

Bazal

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more and more rhinos are being murdered in Africa every year primarily because of demand from Asia for their horns, and it's the horn stump which is the most valuable part and to get to it, the rhino has to die. But even cutting the horn is bad for the rhino as the rhino depends on the point of its horn for its survival

Actually, that's the awful thing. The rhino doesn't have to die. They can happily survive having their horn removed, and many parks do so to avoid poaching. They don't need it to survive, either. It's ornamental for the most part, used in dominance displays and fights. But if two hornless rhinos challenge each other, they'll still go through the exact same routine without it. It also grows back, albeit incredibly slowly.
 

Hallatia

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the rhino still suffers even if only part of its horns are removed.
And poachers who remove the horns without killing the rhino leave it there to bleed to death, but most kill it first as that is easier
 

Bazal

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I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that a rhino losing his horn is, in terms of survival, not much different to you or I having a finger amputated. It's inconvenient and will hurt for a while and take some getting used to, but they survive, and happily. Remember, the horn is 100% keratin. There are no nerves, no pain receptors. If every rhino on earth had its horn surgically removed tomorrow, the species would suffer zero ill effects. That's the worst thing for me, they don't even need to die for the horn. But poverty and greed kill them anyway.

And, conversely, you also have to consider the human side of it. Most poachers are far from criminal masterminds...they're people who are lucky to earn what I earn in a week over the whole year.
 

Hallatia

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to get off rhinos for a second, even though I love them the most.

People hunt giraffes?! On that price list giraffes were there and the dearest at about $5000
 
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