Sydney relocations

[taipan]

A single lane road in and out of the ground + no public transport + nowhere to park + no room to significantly expand the current stadium capacity should they wish to in the future = pretty much what has been going on since 1967.

Just waiting for the day when the NRL stipulates grounds must be able to seat 30,000 people plus. Then what happens?

There will be no lanes in and out of the ground.The retail development in its place adjoining the club will have parking space for 700 cars.
Meaning parking will a little worse than it is now ie the League's club car park will not exist .I park near the Nth Woolooware shops about 500m away,have dones so for years.Not a problem.
FYI public transport currently being used to games,and a bus service to cater for the new residential development,will be further extended.
The stadium without stands at the Nthn end,can hold 20,000 chockers.
The western stand can be knocked down ,and a decent new stand extended 1/4 to 1/4 and extended on the club side.The family hill can be made into a new stand ,the cnrs at the Eastern end can be extended.
It is BS to suggest the ground cannot be reconfigured/built to house 25/30,000 fully seated.Using the ground area of Parra as an example.

The club is planning for the future,a little thing called ASADA is tending to distract for some time.

 

[taipan]

The area does have potential, but so do plenty of other areas in Sydney, e.g. the Upper North Shore still has plenty of strong growth potential, even the Lower North Shore will continue to grow thanks to Chatswood CBD continuing to grow and expand, yet the North Shore has been left high and dry without a club.

There's enormous amounts of wealth on the North Shore and sponsorship opportunities to be had for a club allowed to be active in the area, while Cronulla still don't have a major sponsor. It just seems ridiculously cruel to have given Norths the boot while giving Cronulla chance after chance after chance, and to have them still be lacking essentials like a major sponsor after all this time. If they're going to stay, then I hope they do become a powerhouse club in the future to redeem the time they've spent in shambles.

The Storm, easily. They've brought in more regular RL viewers in Melbourne who are actually starting to have an impact on ratings. E.g. Origin ratings in Melbourne are massive, and club games are on the rise. The Storm also rate well in the RL states, especially vs strong teams like Manly or Brisbane- those games are generally always ratings winners. Outside of their rivalries, Cronulla games are decent, ratings-wise, but their rivalries are their only real strong showings. E.g. Storm vs Panthers almost beat Sharks vs Dragons in Fox ratings, and the Dragons are the Sharks fiercest rivals.

Please champ,the sponsorship problem the Shark's are currently facing ,is tied to the ASADA issues.If you haven't been keeping up to speed on that matter,you are whistling in the wind.
In fact they had LG one of the longest sponsorship deals,that was crushed due to player stupidity.
The ground (owned by the club) secured naming rights.Brookvale Oval's naming rights sponsor?
And the Shire is not a wealthy area hmmm.Reality check the new developments at Greenhills and Wanda ,the land cheapest was $750,000 near the road, going up to $1.5m .Before you even start mixing the mortar.Ever try to buy a unit with a water view of the beach in Cronulla?
And of course those estuaries and bays surrounding the area,have homes that cost a king's ransom.

The no room to expand within the area, has been shot down in flames.
The area has more juniors than Manly and the Roosters combined.

 

[reanimate]

Please champ,the sponsorship problem the Shark's are currently facing ,is tied to the ASADA issues.If you haven't been keeping up to speed on that matter,you are whistling in the wind.
In fact they had LG one of the longest sponsorship deals,that was crushed due to player stupidity.

The Sharks were struggling for sponsors before the whole ASADA saga began, sure it definitely hasn't helped, but they were struggling irrespective of ASADA.

The ground (owned by the club) secured naming rights.Brookvale Oval's naming rights sponsor?

Whether Brookvale takes a naming rights sponsor is more up to Warringah Council than the Sea Eagles, the name has never been sold before. It's actually being discussed right now as a possible funding measure for Brookvale's redevelopment.

And the Shire is not a wealthy area hmmm.Reality check the new developments at Greenhills and Wanda ,the land cheapest was $750,000 near the road, going up to $1.5m .Before you even start mixing the mortar.Ever try to buy a unit with a water view of the beach in Cronulla?
And of course those estuaries and bays surrounding the area,have homes that cost a king's ransom.

The no room to expand within the area, has been shot down in flames.
The area has more juniors than Manly and the Roosters combined.

Yeah, you need to be wealthy to purchase on the water at Cronulla, but you'd be shelling out far, far more to get a waterfront property on the North Shore. And the rest of the Shire doesn't compare to the rest of the North Shore in terms of property value and wealth.

You've got some room to grow within the area, but once you've saturated it, that's it, will you be able to keep up with the rapid growth of the west and other locations after that with nowhere else to go?

 

[BuffaloRules]

And Yeah I do have some ideas and would have thought that it was quite obvious, given their previous experiences with rationalization they have become very careful in the way that they now go about it.

They sensibly always look for a fall guy so that when they move to relocate a club it can never be blamed on them not stepping in to help the club as much as possible.

They push unfavorable clubs into harder and harder positions all the while outwardly backing them completely, but eventually they'll push them into a position that is just to much for the club to handle.

They seem to be pressing the Devils, Bulldogs, Roos and Hawks into such positions, and had it had been one of those clubs in the position that the Bombers are in instead of the Bombers, then they would have almost certainly been relocated.

But isnt the first thing you say the entire point?

What is euphemistically referred to us "rationalisation" is a turd sandwich of the highest order.. we know it and they know that....

I'm confused with what you are referring to by saying that they are pushing unfavourable clubs into harder positions...?? How? By giving them millions of dollars each year at the AFL's and the wealthier clubs expense?

They have an unbelievable stranglehold on their primary market...something the NRL in Sydney can only dream about, yet they go above and beyond to maintain this saturation...

I believe they do it as they know that getting rid of any teams with decades of community involvement leads to resentment from their fans and brings negative publicity and instability to the competition with teams falling over.... not a good look for sponsors and the like...

We compare ourselves to them in so many ways.. why not with their attitude to this?

 

[BuffaloRules]

Because they are now at saturation point and feel no need to put teams anywhere else so can spend their money maintaining the teams they have? I still don't know how the fans allow them to get away with charging them $1 each ticket to give to poor clubs!

I disagree.. Given their zealotry with expanding and pushing their game into new areas, they would put another 6 teams in if it wasnt for the fact that another competitor is the preferred sport in half the country....

 

[georgesnmith]

I disagree.. Given their zealotry with expanding and pushing their game into new areas, they would put another 6 teams in if it wasnt for the fact that another competitor is the preferred sport in half the country....

more like 2/3rd of australia lol

 

[georgesnmith]

The area does have potential, but so do plenty of other areas in Sydney, e.g. the Upper North Shore still has plenty of strong growth potential, even the Lower North Shore will continue to grow thanks to Chatswood CBD continuing to grow and expand, yet the North Shore has been left high and dry without a club.

There's enormous amounts of wealth on the North Shore and sponsorship opportunities to be had for a club allowed to be active in the area, while Cronulla still don't have a major sponsor. It just seems ridiculously cruel to have given Norths the boot while giving Cronulla chance after chance after chance, and to have them still be lacking essentials like a major sponsor after all this time. If they're going to stay, then I hope they do become a powerhouse club in the future to redeem the time they've spent in shambles.

The Storm, easily. They've brought in more regular RL viewers in Melbourne who are actually starting to have an impact on ratings. E.g. Origin ratings in Melbourne are massive, and club games are on the rise. The Storm also rate well in the RL states, especially vs strong teams like Manly or Brisbane- those games are generally always ratings winners. Outside of their rivalries, Cronulla games are decent, ratings-wise, but their rivalries are their only real strong showings. E.g. Storm vs Panthers almost beat Sharks vs Dragons in Fox ratings, and the Dragons are the Sharks fiercest rivals.

storm werent even being shown on FTA before midnight for most of the least deal

remember use it or lose it

Nine couldnt give a stuff about melbourne tv ratings

theyd be lucky to get 50k on gem.

 

[georgesnmith]

Melbourne, they draw bigger audiences and a GF featuring the Storm adds 900k melbourne viewers to the audience. Good luck getting 900k cronulla viewers!

use it or lose it lol

 

[georgesnmith]

just on mergers or relocations .....

Nth eagles averaged 13k?

Manly get that now on their own.

and weve lost the 10 - 13k nths used to get on their own

balmain and wests used to avg around 10k each, WT might do 15 - 18k

souths were told there were too many sydney teams

they now average 20k and turn over $22 million

:lol:

 

[oikee]

people have been saying sydney has too many nrl teams for 10 years and not a single club has gone anywhere

the ARLC have supported both cronulla and wests tigers financially as well

as souths have shown any club can get 20k crowds if they market themselves

sydney doesnt have too many teams, i could easily make an argument to say it has too few.

id prefer camppbelltown to have their own team and a team on the north shore.

the only team which is in a small catchment is cronulla but with their development they will be one of the richest sydney clubs

You say 20 thousand crowds, i think only one team from Sydney gets 20 thousand crowds.
To compare look at the Broncos,
they get 30 to 40 thousand for games, in a one team city.
So these Sydney games where your playing other Sydney teams in Sydney, should be producing 40 thousand crowds, you know, two teams both from Sydney, so 20 thousand each team comes to 40 thousand.
Something that never seems to add up in Sydney.

 

[taipan]

The Sharks were struggling for sponsors before the whole ASADA saga began, sure it definitely hasn't helped, but they were struggling irrespective of ASADA.

Whether Brookvale takes a naming rights sponsor is more up to Warringah Council than the Sea Eagles, the name has never been sold before. It's actually being discussed right now as a possible funding measure for Brookvale's redevelopment.

Yeah, you need to be wealthy to purchase on the water at Cronulla, but you'd be shelling out far, far more to get a waterfront property on the North Shore. And the rest of the Shire doesn't compare to the rest of the North Shore in terms of property value and wealth.

You've got some room to grow within the area, but once you've saturated it, that's it, will you be able to keep up with the rapid growth of the west and other locations after that with nowhere else to go?

The ASADA isusue started Feb 2013.They club had LG until,a player stuffed up,and this was an out for them.

And back before ASADA they also had a $13.5m debt to service which they don't have now.except for a $3.5m one at mates rates.
The naming rights proceeds goes to the club,as they own the ground.
Of course the Nth shore is wealthier but union has a big foothold there,which it does not have in the Shire.And AFL has a far bigger presence there than it does down here.
Not quite correct the Menai and Area between Kurnell and Wanda has the opportunity and interest for thousand of home lots.The area is not just the Cronulla peninsula.

I don't see your point.of course the west has huge growth potential,Manly does not neither the Eastern Suburbs,or South Sydney nor Canterbury for that matter.They should all retain their places in the NRL.If all the clubs are viable including the Sharks.
And the Bears should get back in.

 

[taipan]

You say 20 thousand crowds, i think only one team from Sydney gets 20 thousand crowds.
To compare look at the Broncos,
they get 30 to 40 thousand for games, in a one team city.
So these Sydney games where your playing other Sydney teams in Sydney, should be producing 40 thousand crowds, you know, two teams both from Sydney, so 20 thousand each team comes to 40 thousand.
Something that never seems to add up in Sydney.

And all those Sydney clubs represent areas ,with populations far fewer than Brisbane,which makes Brisbane crowds by drawing comparisons nothing to write home about.A city on their own.
And indeed the Titans representing 600,000 population look very ordinary.

 

[georgesnmith]

You say 20 thousand crowds, i think only one team from Sydney gets 20 thousand crowds.
To compare look at the Broncos,
they get 30 to 40 thousand for games, in a one team city.
So these Sydney games where your playing other Sydney teams in Sydney, should be producing 40 thousand crowds, you know, two teams both from Sydney, so 20 thousand each team comes to 40 thousand.
Something that never seems to add up in Sydney.

two do.

few more years it will be 4

sydney has nine teams brisbane has one you do the maths buddy

 

[Perth Red]

just on mergers or relocations .....

Nth eagles averaged 13k?

Manly get that now on their own.

and weve lost the 10 - 13k nths used to get on their own

balmain and wests used to avg around 10k each, WT might do 15 - 18k

souths were told there were too many sydney teams

they now average 20k and turn over $22 million

:lol:

Wests avg for years before they merged around 7500 balmains 8000
West tigers 15806 nothing lost there then. (And tigers could be much bigger with better management IMO)

Sydney Crowds have increased since norths have gone, maybe those fans were not lost?

Souths were always a sleeping giant who got lucky when one of their fans became a Hollywood star. They always had big potential but can you honestly tell me if Crowe and Holmes a court hadn't invested heavily and reinvented the club they wouldn't still be the basket case they were when they were kicked out? Do those clubs with very ltd appeal and population base areas have that same potential for major growth and will they find a way of realising it?

I can see st George and west tigers as two clubs with lots of unrealised potential. Outside Sydney warriors should be a massive club but aren't and Canberra and GC need much better management to realise their potentials. Brisbane should be 45k a game and probably need a rival to knock them out of their complacency.

 

[georgesnmith]

cronulla if they get the development done, sure they can grow to 20k crowds.

Penrith has a massive area to itself, its been poorly managed most of the times since 1967

Parramatta are the sleeping giant. they could be anything IF they got a succesful side

Manly needs a better ground, but with one club from when you cross the harbour bridge up to newcastle, they need to spread out further than the peninsula

 

[reanimate]

storm werent even being shown on FTA before midnight for most of the least deal

remember use it or lose it

Nine couldnt give a stuff about melbourne tv ratings

theyd be lucky to get 50k on gem.

The Storm draw strongly in the RL states though, the stronger Melbourne ratings are just a bonus that keeps growing. Think about what the more appealing game to watch on tv for a neutral is- Storm vs Souths/Manly/Roosters, or Sharks vs Souths/Manly/Roosters? The Storm are seen as villains, generally, people love to see them get beaten, or if they're versing another club you hate, you like watching the Storm's strength roll them. Cronulla are generally seen as a club who aren't going to be challenging for a premiership, they just don't capture as much neutral interest.

The ASADA isusue started Feb 2013.They club had LG until,a player stuffed up,and this was an out for them.

The struggle for a sponsor began before then.

http://www.theleader.com.au/story/1182278/sharks-hunt-for-sponsors/
http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/01/30/sharks-for-hire-leagues-corporate-outcasts/

Of course the Nth shore is wealthier but union has a big foothold there,which it does not have in the Shire.And AFL has a far bigger presence there than it does down here.

Union does have a big foothold, although interest seems to be on a sharp decline with the decline of the Wallabies, and the Waratahs have been deserted in droves. I also think AFL support is mostly confined to a certain age group, those who were most deeply cut by the SL war and the Bears being left out of the NRL. I know barely anyone in their 20s on the North Shore who follows the AFL, and those that do would go to maybe one or two games a year, if that, and casually follow the Swans the rest of the time. There's still a lot of interest in the NRL there, especially in younger age groups, although it's not being converted effectively into playing numbers and they aren't being turned into 'hardcore' fans who go out of their way to go to games, buy merchandise etc thanks to the lack of a team active in the area. A lot of guys I work with follow Manly to varying degrees, some just casually watch on tv while some go to games etc., thanks to going to school with a lot of kids from the Northern Beaches, there's also a decent amount of Souths support and some Roosters and Tigers support.

That's why it's so cruel there isn't an NRL team able to do work in the area at the moment, Union's the weakest it's ever been in Australia, AFL's just plodding along with its core, but small and quite overstated supporter base (the same core fans will go to games, but there's basically no interest outside of them- just look at how pathetic tv numbers in Sydney are)- if the Bears were still around, or if Manly or the Roosters etc. were allowed access to develop the area, the NRL would be dominating the area easily.

I don't see your point.of course the west has huge growth potential,Manly does not neither the Eastern Suburbs,or South Sydney nor Canterbury for that matter.They should all retain their places in the NRL.If all the clubs are viable including the Sharks.
And the Bears should get back in.

That's why the teams in the west are needed, the west will only keep growing and growing. Cronulla has the Shire and that's it. Easts and Manly's growth will depend on the Bears decision, if they aren't let back in, I'd imagine one of those clubs will be put to work there and will grow within the area. I think Manly's the more natural fit, but maybe the NRL will think the Roosters need it more and Manly will end up getting split with the CC? Either way, the NRL needs more presence in the North and those clubs need to be able to grow further, one of them will be expanding outwards and into the North Shore.

 

[georgesnmith]

anybody draws strongly in rugby league states.

the storm havent added a jot to our TV deals as of yet

and they had over $100 million into them

 

[oikee]

two do.

few more years it will be 4

sydney has nine teams brisbane has one you do the maths buddy

I did the maths, what dont you understand between 30 to 40 thousand crowds for one team and 15 thousand for two Sydney teams.
Is their some secret formula you guys in Sydney are hiding from the public. ?

If these two teams have ten to fifteen thousand members, then who come only 15 thousand show up.
I am doing the math, and your not making sense.
Now add to that another Brisbane team if they expand, so two teams dragging 30 to 40 thousand a week.
70 thousand fans average for two Brisbane teams compared to nine in Sydney struggling to rent a crowd.

??? Come on, the world is laughing at you, not with you. Do the math. ???
We have been doing it for years, and crowds are going backwards, not forwards.

 

[georgesnmith]

every queensland club has lower crowds now than their records.

titans were over 20k now11k over 50% drop

cowboys from near 20k to 13k

broncos used to get over 40k now 33k

crushers used to get 15k now nothing.

find me sydney club whose crowds are falling?

:lol:

 

[georgesnmith]

queenslanders are the biggest bandwagoners there are

theyve gone from the broncos to the lions and now to the reds and roar.

the minute the miss on the semis the teams lose 30% of their crowds.

heartland?

:lol: