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Team list thread - vs Dogs Rnd 12

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
59,031
I don't buy the premiership window crap. Good sides and management will have a competitive side most years bar bad luck and injuries. And if your in the finals you only need 3 great games to win it. Then it becomes a game of odds.
Cowboys could of won 4 or 5 titles with a bit more luck. But they had a crazy amount to win the one they did.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
73,975
I don't buy the premiership window crap. Good sides and management will have a competitive side most years bar bad luck and injuries. And if your in the finals you only need 3 great games to win it. Then it becomes a game of odds.
Cowboys could of won 4 or 5 titles with a bit more luck. But they had a crazy amount to win the one they did.

:thinking: clubs with massive TPA’s say hi.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
73,975
I dont feel any side has a much better team on paper then we do
That’s not the point. You were talking about the myth of premiership windows. It’s when/if players like Moses, Both Browns, Gutho, Reg and Jnr all become circa $1m players, then we’ll need to let some go. That indicates to me a closing of your premiership window. Yes good clubs should/could have players coming through, but that’s hard to do. Who have Melbourne replaced Cronk with. They have been the benchmark in succession planning and even they have dabbled in 4 or 5 players and may have only now settled on Jahrome Hughes - a career fullback.

You could argue that their window remains open, but would it without Goat ?
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,478
Am definitely not a Stuart fan Ram. Cannot stand the man. Will never forget or forgive how the egotistical grub treated our great club as a door mat.
Obviously the jury remains out on Barrett but I've seen signs that maybe hes matured. Cleary has been an average coach for many years yet Penrith have improved 10 fold. I have a sneaky suspicion that TB has a lot to do with that. It may well be that TB is an outstanding Assistant and not cut out for the senior position. Time will tell. I think The Dogs missed the boat with Holbrook. Moving forward to "Parra-phrase" a respected forumite "its very exciting".

You just have to see Barrett's post game press conferences to see what type of temperament and person he is. Never takes responsibility and looks to blame anything and everything if he can to deflect his own failings. Stuart was the same, but now doesn't do that anywhere near as much.

Barrett will eventually turn out to be a good coach, but he is way short of the finished product. He will be tested big time with that average team at the Dogs. He will find many OTHER reasons for their losses. Do you remember BA ever really blaming anyone other then himself or the team for their losses over the years?

But coaches like Bozo, Stuart and now Barrett ,the new pinup boy of the media, all had/have this trait in them. They all were average coaches when they first started out, but their big mouths and egos tried to deflect their short comings because they weren't quite ready to be head coaches when they first started out. Barrett's second time wont be such a shock to his system this time around and he will be a little more prepared for sure, but the team at this stage is very average, so if they don't get many more quality signings from now to next season, we can all look forward to many post game meltdowns by Barrett.

As for Cleary being an average coach, I don't see him like that at all. I think he is a very good coach and always has been. When I think of all the teams he has coached from the Warriors to now, win, lose or draw they have always been well prepared and each player knew their roll well and executed it accordingly. Put simply they would play a very up tempo style and ran lines very well, with many players always in motion. Even when they would get it wrong, it wasn't from a coaching point of view, but from player error. Basically they almost always looked like they had an objective that they were working on and a style of play that would get them there.

That type of play does not happen through bad coaching. I used to always comment on this to my mates as we would watch games together. I would be surprised at how well some of his teams would actually play, considering the sometimes average roster he had to work with. Bad coaching is the Broncos this season. The players seam lost and devoid of ideas and constantly frustrated and make poor reads in defense. Seibold seems to have made it to complicated for a very young roster that is struggling to make it work on the field. I don't judge him on his Tigers stint because that all turned ugly very quickly due to lies, politics and selfish self interest behaviour(by him of course).

That doesn't make him a bad coach though. Look at Super coach Bennett and his double dealings over the years. Just makes him a flawed human like the rest of us. His stint last year the Panthers was derailed do to all the shenanigans within the club from the players that were out of his control. As for having Barrett there who has been a massive positive influence on the teams performance? I should hope so. The best coaches/teams have also got some of the best assistants, look at the Storm and the Roosters. Everyone keeps poaching their guys for a reason. Oh and Api Koroisau has made a massive difference as well.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,478
That’s not the point. You were talking about the myth of premiership windows. It’s when/if players like Moses, Both Browns, Gutho, Reg and Jnr all become circa $1m players, then we’ll need to let some go. That indicates to me a closing of your premiership window. Yes good clubs should/could have players coming through, but that’s hard to do. Who have Melbourne replaced Cronk with. They have been the benchmark in succession planning and even they have dabbled in 4 or 5 players and may have only now settled on Jahrome Hughes - a career fullback.

You could argue that their window remains open, but would it without Goat ?

You gave a perfect example as to why you never ever let quality halves go unless it is impossible to keep them due to insane money offers or a major falling out. On the latter I would rather let the coach go then a great half.

Yes even the Storm are struggling to find a great half. Mmm...I wonder why that is? Wouldn't be because they basically don't exist and that the 2 or 3 that do are locked up securely by their respective clubs. I keep saying it, but halves more then any other position are the most important player in your team. Plod lovers like Pou who think you can just replace a high-end half with any old first grade standard half, are delusional. The standard of halves in the competition at present is abysmal and never been so poor since I started following the game back in the seventies. So many NRL standard halves right now are just woeful and not worth their feed.

The order of priority in my opinion of player importance to a team is and has been for ages, half, front rowers, hooker, fullback, then the rest. But even if you don't have a wily hooker or a great fullback, as long as you have a couple of great front rowers and a great half that can play off of them, even if the rest of the team is solid/average you will be competitive.

Halves and front rowers for mine are the lynchpin to success. Then you work on the rest which are much easier to come by.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
59,031
That’s not the point. You were talking about the myth of premiership windows. It’s when/if players like Moses, Both Browns, Gutho, Reg and Jnr all become circa $1m players, then we’ll need to let some go. That indicates to me a closing of your premiership window. Yes good clubs should/could have players coming through, but that’s hard to do. Who have Melbourne replaced Cronk with. They have been the benchmark in succession planning and even they have dabbled in 4 or 5 players and may have only now settled on Jahrome Hughes - a career fullback.

You could argue that their window remains open, but would it without Goat ?

Bar potential Moses and D.Brown none are close to million dollar players.
N.Brown isn't worth more then 500k. Guth,Jnr,RCG next contracts I would say will be less then current ones.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
59,031
You just have to see Barrett's post game press conferences to see what type of temperament and person he is. Never takes responsibility and looks to blame anything and everything if he can to deflect his own failings. Stuart was the same, but now doesn't do that anywhere near as much.

Barrett will eventually turn out to be a good coach, but he is way short of the finished product. He will be tested big time with that average team at the Dogs. He will find many OTHER reasons for their losses. Do you remember BA ever really blaming anyone other then himself or the team for their losses over the years?

But coaches like Bozo, Stuart and now Barrett ,the new pinup boy of the media, all had/have this trait in them. They all were average coaches when they first started out, but their big mouths and egos tried to deflect their short comings because they weren't quite ready to be head coaches when they first started out. Barrett's second time wont be such a shock to his system this time around and he will be a little more prepared for sure, but the team at this stage is very average, so if they don't get many more quality signings from now to next season, we can all look forward to many post game meltdowns by Barrett.

As for Cleary being an average coach, I don't see him like that at all. I think he is a very good coach and always has been. When I think of all the teams he has coached from the Warriors to now, win, lose or draw they have always been well prepared and each player knew their roll well and executed it accordingly. Put simply they would play a very up tempo style and ran lines very well, with many players always in motion. Even when they would get it wrong, it wasn't from a coaching point of view, but from player error. Basically they almost always looked like they had an objective that they were working on and a style of play that would get them there.

That type of play does not happen through bad coaching. I used to always comment on this to my mates as we would watch games together. I would be surprised at how well some of his teams would actually play, considering the sometimes average roster he had to work with. Bad coaching is the Broncos this season. The players seam lost and devoid of ideas and constantly frustrated and make poor reads in defense. Seibold seems to have made it to complicated for a very young roster that is struggling to make it work on the field. I don't judge him on his Tigers stint because that all turned ugly very quickly due to lies, politics and selfish self interest behaviour(by him of course).

That doesn't make him a bad coach though. Look at Super coach Bennett and his double dealings over the years. Just makes him a flawed human like the rest of us. His stint last year the Panthers was derailed do to all the shenanigans within the club from the players that were out of his control. As for having Barrett there who has been a massive positive influence on the teams performance? I should hope so. The best coaches/teams have also got some of the best assistants, look at the Storm and the Roosters. Everyone keeps poaching their guys for a reason. Oh and Api Koroisau has made a massive difference as well.


Let's look what Ivan did recently.

Gone - RCG, BLAKE,MALONEY,DWZ, PEACHEY,KATOA,EGAN.

Perhaps 5 of their biggest stars and 2 of there overhyped juniors.

He then replaces by blooding Luai,Crichton,Too,Staines,Leinu,Burns,Burton,Martin, Naden, Aetkins,Kenny and signs Tetavano, Capewell and Korisau.That is 11 juniors blooded in 12mths who play key roles in there line up squad of say 22. Half a side.
I would say he knows what type of players he needs and wants. When they lost Maloney I thought they'd go pearshaped. Along with the loss of all those quality first graders. But they are perhaps the best side they have been now in 10yrs.
I don't like Ivan as he seems smug but I reckon he is a smart coach.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
84,832
Definitely shows you can let good players go and improve your side. It's all about balance, not desperately hanging onto your best players at any cost.
 

Happy MEel

First Grade
Messages
9,411
Definitely shows you can let good players go and improve your side. It's all about balance, not desperately hanging onto your best players at any cost.
Mind you, they have kept their origin half. Similarly, both Melbourne and the Roosters, who are the benchmark of the comp, have $1mill + players on their roster. If you take them as an example, it could be argued you need at least one superstar to be consistently competing for a premiership.
 
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