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Team v Bulldogs

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,910
There was an item on one of the TV footy shows this week that I found interesting. It said TL approached ME about his game plan; it was too complicated for the players. So ME simplified it.
I have felt for a while that our players don't follow a plan, either they don't remember or they don't understand.
We saw what they are capable of against the Broncos pre-season. It is possible we will never see that again.
Instead we get into the forward exchanges early on and then try for width too early, make silly errors and never recover. Doesn't help when Manu drops his first ball, gets caught out by his opposite and then stands in front of his center on attack. All this after Mateo gives away yet another penalty.
I don't know what the answer is but it won't fix itself.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
37,156
ok, I've calmed down somewhat.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to make minimal changes and give Mateo a chance.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,986
no, we played well without him last week v tigers. the guy is disruptive.

I,d have him in NSW Cup and introduce Bhana, Palavi or Ki to our bench
 

LeagueNut

First Grade
Messages
6,981
There was an item on one of the TV footy shows this week that I found interesting. It said TL approached ME about his game plan; it was too complicated for the players. So ME simplified it.
I have felt for a while that our players don't follow a plan, either they don't remember or they don't understand.
We saw what they are capable of against the Broncos pre-season. It is possible we will never see that again.
Instead we get into the forward exchanges early on and then try for width too early, make silly errors and never recover. Doesn't help when Manu drops his first ball, gets caught out by his opposite and then stands in front of his center on attack. All this after Mateo gives away yet another penalty.
I don't know what the answer is but it won't fix itself.
When we're allowed to follow our game plan (whatever it is) we look like world-beaters.

As soon as the opposition asks some questions we retreat so far into our shells and start playing like the Remuera under-six girls team.

We don't seem to have any adaptability - we only have one approach and when it doesn't work we're doomed. It's almost like we're genuinely surprised when the opposition doesn't lie down and take it.

It's been that way for as long as I can remember.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Another day, another dollar as they say, plus I won on the Slipper so all is not lost. I think its worthwhile acknowledging some blokes busted their humps out there yesterday, and should not be under any spotlight. Nathan Friend is one, yes I know he was getting pushed back late in the day but FFS, put on 70 tackles plus run to every attacking tackle you have (admittedly we didn't have any) and see how you pull up. That was a herculean effort, and if nothing else, showed someone has a hell of a lot of fight for his club and the players around him. You could say Nathan has one word sorely missing in the player ranks - pride. If all the others, who are immensely more talented at this stage of their careers than Nathan, played with the same pride, grit and determination, this mob would be a top 4 outfit. Another one is Jacob Lillyman, when he came on he made a world of difference.

Then there are players in between who weren't horrible but weren't great. Hurrell, Mannering, Matagi, Matulino, Tomkins, Leuluai, Johnson, Rapira and we can excuse Bakuya since he went off early.

THere are others though that need to seriously be given a serious mauling at tackle practice this week. Townsend, three soft as butter errors. I love it when he goes to the line on the left hand side, he's probably the first five eighth in five years to make Mannering look extremely threatening because he attracts defenders. He goes to the line well. Once he overplayed it by half a yard and it cost us an intercept try, half a yard earlier and Mannering goes in untouched. The missed kick to touch was an appalling lack of concentration, and he dropped it off another half break. I think TL is a great gritty player, but Chad to me probably goes to the line better and probably has a touch more ability. He just fails to execute at key times so I'm torn on him.

Vatuvei, appalling effort at times. He has a weak carry on him, pretty much every game, pretty much at a key time. When he spilled the ball on tackle one after we had restrained yet another raid, that was a key moment. If we could have built some momentum by holding onto the ball then and there I'd have rated our chances. The bomb he missed, I don't know if I blame him, he was probably on the right line, his leap was good, very rarely does someone take a bomb on his inside shoulder to score.

But that leads to defence. Townsend, Neilsen and Vatuvei in no way shape or form communicate with each other. The blame is probably on Vatuvei and Neilsen for the wide pass Carney threw to score off, but I hold Townsend accountable. Watching the replay, the team is starting to spread and get forward, Townsend is a step behind and has infact turned his shoulders square. It throws open a gap which the other blokes had to hold up to cover.

Fish, had a horror show game. What was up with his hands? Seriously, did he get on the bottle before the game? First 4 minutes of the second half we drop the ball 3 times, twice by Fish. I don't know if I've ever seen that from Fish since his debut when Hayne unleashed hell on him.

To me, this really outlines the Warriors. Fish, Vatuvei, Townsend, the differences between their good games and their crap games are huge. They lack any consistency those chaps. Neilsen, he is, was, and always will be bog standard average. His much celebrated defence is a myth, as shown yesterday. He has the speed of a dead turnip and the ball playing skills of a juggling jester with no arms. I watched reserve grade, there is a very clear replacement in waiting. A bloke who frankly I can't recall having a bad game yet still couldn't find his way into the team. Ngani Laumape. Yes, I hear he came back out of shape, but he is destroying reggies. He should be in at centre for Neilsen.

BTW, loved Neilsen's interview after the game "How you going Danger?" "Yeah really good thanks..." Seriously? You just got the tom tits belted out of your team, and your side defensively.

Mateo is getting ragged on. Interesting. Mateo is, was, and always will be a player who goes well when there's go forward in front of him and blokes backing him up. When you have 39% of possession, its not the game to appraise a bloke like Mateo on.

The other person who needs blame is the coach. It has been a trait of his teams in the NRL that they give away cheap penalties in the ruck and offside penalties. One or two years maybe you say he's unlucky... but year in, year out you have to say there is an immense issue in the bloke being able to read how the referees are going to change their tune for the year. Most coaches adjust. He doesn't seem to be able to. I look at how his front rowers go. I've heard him talk about Matulino dropping the stats a bit and focusing on 'quality'. Ok, fine, but a guy like Matulino could become not quite as good, but a decent version of Steve Price. The bloke has a high constitution for work. He wants in. He just needs a coach who believes in him. He is over-coaching the hell out of him.

Attitude. The Warriors lack it big time. I would not be surprised if a group of players got on the flight on Friday or whatever it was believing their own press and believing it was a matter of rocking up. The Warriors are the club who most often drop these types of games. And everytime the other team gives a master class where you think they're world beaters. If you come to the game 10% off in attitude, you will never compete. Its not that the other team have come to life, its that we as a club have our blokes turn up unprepared. The players can do it. Look what happened after their 'players only' meeting after Penrith. To see such a dramatic turnaround from that shows that it was an extreme lack of intensity and focus, borne out of a terrible attitude, that caused the horrible start last year. They need to pull this card out early, right here, right now, or else they're in danger of going 2-4.

Scurrah. Hopeless. I still blame you champ for the coup d'etat on Ivan Cleary. Well done son. I remember you putting on a verbal rim job of Matt Elliott when you hired him. How'd that turn out champ? Time to go back to shampoos old son.

And finally, John Morris, go sit on a pineapple. One of the worst acting performances in NRL history. Son, you are a dead set gimp of a human being. 300 games, and about 3 good ones. You're the tinniest kumquat in the game, and your lay down sally effort on a mythical high tackle and springing straight to your feet is a disgrace.
 
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Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Tomkins out, Locke in (once he's available)
Townsend out, Leuluai to 6

When you have 39% of the ball, most of it inside your own 20, because other blokes give away late tackle penalties, drop the ball early in the count, and can't find touch off penalty kicks, how on earth do you apportion blame to the fullback to say he's the one who should be accountable, drop him? 0 errors, 0 penalties from him. Good lord of moses thats odd logic. Poor bloke has worked out he has to come up in the line to stop the props and backrowers because he can't rely on his pack to do it without being rolled over the line.

1 Tomkins
2 Fisiiahi
3 Hurrell
4 Laumape
5 Vatuvei (by the width of a pube he stays and only because I really don't believe Fusitua is ready yet)
6 Leuluai
7 Johnson
8 Lillyman (deserves a start, EASILY our best forward this year)
9 Friend
10 Matulino
11 Bakuya
12 Mannering (c)
13 Ikahihifo

Mateo
Rapira
Matagi
Havili - Elliott's got to stop this mad scientist fascination, which he's had most of his career, of having a hooker who is a tackle bot who goes 80 minutes, no ifs or buts. The game is evolving to being quicker around the ruck. Its time for Savila. He was MOM in Reggies yesterday.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,838
Iafeta summed it up perfectly, agree with every point. Nailed it.

On Tomkins... he's clearly not an automatic success at the moment but there is no way he can be blamed for our losses so far. He puts in 100% and the odd blunder is not match costing. That said it is a tad disappointing he'll still finding his feet for a player of his 'quality', but absolutely no point in dropping him.

On attitude...

There is a core group of players who fall asleep when the pressure is on and stand around dumbfounded. Its not Mannerings fault, but he doesn't play the attitude direction role that someone needs to. In the past guys like Cleary (as coach and captain), Campion, Price etc. would give you a smart kick up the rear if you were bumming around.

Its as if they have taken the "one game at a time" cliché literally, nobody seems to give a crap that we're already well behind on the ladder and we're putting our season on the line with listless performances like this. Someone (coach/captain/on-field leader) needs to give the boys a reminder that we're playing for a playoff position and a premiership. There seems to be a "oh well lolz we'll gettem next week" attitude.

There's something really wrong when we can turn in a performance like last week and follow it up with this.
 

playdaball

Bench
Messages
3,525
When you have 39% of the ball, most of it inside your own 20, because other blokes give away late tackle penalties, drop the ball early in the count, and can't find touch off penalty kicks, how on earth do you apportion blame to the fullback to say he's the one who should be accountable, drop him? 0 errors, 0 penalties from him. Good lord of moses thats odd logic. Poor bloke has worked out he has to come up in the line to stop the props and backrowers because he can't rely on his pack to do it without being rolled over the line.

1 Tomkins
2 Fisiiahi
3 Hurrell
4 Laumape
5 Vatuvei (by the width of a pube he stays and only because I really don't believe Fusitua is ready yet)
6 Leuluai
7 Johnson
8 Lillyman (deserves a start, EASILY our best forward this year)
9 Friend
10 Matulino
11 Bakuya
12 Mannering (c)
13 Ikahihifo

Mateo
Rapira
Matagi
Havili - Elliott's got to stop this mad scientist fascination, which he's had most of his career, of having a hooker who is a tackle bot who goes 80 minutes, no ifs or buts. The game is evolving to being quicker around the ruck. Its time for Savila. He was MOM in Reggies yesterday.

Agree although not fussed if Laumape comes for Manu or Neilsen.

Mateo deserves another shot but if he fails to perform straight into the reserves with Peyroux coming in.

Ikahihifo is a mystery. The one damaging run he did lead to a try. Somebody tell the fwds to run hard - look at Parra for evidence of this.

Bring in some outside ex player for motivation!
 

Diesel

Referee
Messages
26,138
Some really good points raised here.

Townsend should've had a blinder out there, being his old club and wanting to prove them wrong by releasing him. Why is it when ex-Warriors or NZ players play the Warriors they carve us up, but when we get a player from another club and they come up against them, that player, or the team has a really bad game?

Culture is a massive problem.

Manu needs either a shift to the fowards or a shift to the NSWarriors after 10 years of first grade he shouldn't make the errors he does
 

NZ Warrior

First Grade
Messages
6,444
Put your houses on the Doggies to put a f**k-load of points on the Warriors.

I'm just about done here. Thank God that Game of Thrones is starting back up.
 

WithTheDawn

Juniors
Messages
897
I'd back us as having a better chance in this one, just because we will be written off. Maybe the last game will have an impact like the Panthers game last year did...heres hoping anyway.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,986
that's the crazy thing about that team, if they play a top 5 team there's a good chance we win, bottom 5 its odds on we lose..
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,910
I wonder if the NRL match fixing committee is looking at the players?
Maybe they have a team betting syndicate.
 

hitman82

Bench
Messages
4,937
Should be an interesting team naming tomorrow! Andrew McFadden will want to shake things up presumably. Though if Player Power saw Elliot out the door... he may be too scared to change anything.
 
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