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Team v Tigers. round 1

JoeD

First Grade
Messages
7,056
f**k a lot of whingers on here. Possibly strongest Rd 1 team of all time? Like Johnson at 6 and will be better with Robson there. Warriors by plenty.
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,816
Sure put 88 on his back, as long as he does not have to direct like he did in the past, held back his running game and support play.

I look forward to Matulino with three blokes on him, slipping a ball away to a flying Johnson unhinged about worrying about the next play.

Opposition fullbacks nightmare.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
f**k a lot of whingers on here. Possibly strongest Rd 1 team of all time? Like Johnson at 6 and will be better with Robson there. Warriors by plenty.

Certain that's directed partially at me.

Can you then do me a service and explain the logic behind two players being played in one position in the final trial, v a match-'hardened (on the back of Charity Shield) team like the Dragons, then swapped for round one? It's been my bugbear for decades. That's my only issue with the side.

Of course it was going to be the best side we've named for round one, our squad dictates that. We'll see if it results in a W. By plenty, I'd be surprised. Favourites? Yeah, probably. But the Tigers won't roll over
 
Messages
17,770
Certain that's directed partially at me.

Can you then do me a service and explain the logic behind two players being played in one position in the final trial, v a match-'hardened (on the back of Charity Shield) team like the Dragons, then swapped for round one? It's been my bugbear for decades. That's my only issue with the side.

Of course it was going to be the best side we've named for round one, our squad dictates that. We'll see if it results in a W. By plenty, I'd be surprised. Favourites? Yeah, probably. But the Tigers won't roll over


I can only guess Lolo had a shocker at centre in the trial and proven he is not a centre.
We need to lock the 3 outside defender's in a room, slide a head bands game/ pictionary game under the door and make them learn to communicate!
 

Iron Lion

Juniors
Messages
1,216
I can only guess Lolo had a shocker at centre in the trial and proven he is not a centre.
We need to lock the 3 outside defender's in a room, slide a head bands game/ pictionary game under the door and make them learn to communicate!

I agree with Penrose in regards to the swapping around of players in the outside backs. Its a bloody merry go round. How do you build combinations?
 

Fufu Andronez

First Grade
Messages
8,464
Happy enough with this team, good mix of flair and brains. Would love to see Konrad force his way in though
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
I can only guess Lolo had a shocker at centre in the trial and proven he is not a centre.
We need to lock the 3 outside defender's in a room, slide a head bands game/ pictionary game under the door and make them learn to communicate!

Is one performance in that position enough to undo what I presume was the plan all off-season - to run Lolo at centre? Did they hedge their bets and run him in both positions through the off-season, rather than give this kid the chance at specialisation like he needs? If he had've played wing and Kata centre 2 weeks ago, I'd have absolutely no issue. I wouldn't have whinged one bit.

At some stage, whatever coach we have will have to suck up a couple of poor performances and back themselves to pick, stick and earn their keep by developing proper combinations. Sick and tired of chopping and changing, then blaming the players' as if it's their fault. Sure, they can take some blame but our coaches also need to start adding skill-sets and bringing these guys along as thinkers and do-ers. We're doing the same things we've done for 20 years as Bash said. The trial v the Dragons showed up the same issues.

I know it's all doom and gloom before the season but I think I've got a legitimate concern. People can pick us to make finals and win the comp, but our spine can't make tackles and defensive decisions on the edge. That's where 5-6 tries came a fortnight ago, ala 30 points.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,720
Agree the numbers on the back are arbitrary - Robson should and will lead and direct, Johnson can be Johnson - much better balance than we've had in a long time - Robson is a great signing imo

Haven't seen trials etc, what has Henry done to leapfrog Thompson, and has Vete been poor?
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
Thompson hasn't played. Same as Austin being named on the bench for the Raiders, there's no doubt Thompson is a starting player but probably isn't quite where he needs to be coming off injury. Better to come on when the game slows down a touch.

On Vete, zero idea here. Is it just that Gavet has overtaken him by virtue of mongrel he brings? I'm an unabashed Vete fan so I'm suspect about it when a guy who hasn't made it at three NRL clubs is slid in for round one ahead of a pretty good option in Vete. But I didn't see the Titans trial nor some of the Dragons, so I'm guessing too.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
I think Thompson has a niggling injury. Don't know where I read it.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
There is a reason that the Warriors have employed half backs to pair with Johnson and not five eights.

There was a default experiment when Maloney was here....(essentially we played two five eights with the emergent SJ wearing the 7)....it didn't work even though Johnson and Maloney are very good five eights in their own rights.

Johnson has been a halfback in number only...if it walks like a duck...talks like a duck....

The Same issue saw a pairing of Johnson and Foran take a lot longer than you would have liked to adjust their roles (Foran has had to become more of a Halfback than five eight at international level....it works....but it has taken an age to sort out).

Admittedly the compliment of skills between a halves pairing is what makes a combination....not the numbering....however those two positions have known skill sets that are inherent to numbers seven and six.

Johnson loves being a halfback akin to his hero Andrew Johns.

This is rugby league, not basketball, It always irked me that the numbering tradition was tweaked to suit one player.keeping within traditions of a sport ensures a mindset whereby no player is bigger than the game.

For mine....five eight has always been the running half and unlike Johnson my favorite halves were Six's (Lokyer, Fittler, Lewis)....Andrew Johns and Jonathon Thurston somewhat shifted the balance of perception regarding the 'best position in the team'.

Our own Stacey Jones and Benji Marshall....and a lack of superstar five eights coming out of NZ...has left an under appreciation of the Five eight position by this generation of footy fans/players.

Those who remember Olsen Filipaina will recall how a five eight could dominate a team in a black and white jumper.

I'm not having a go at Johnson.Due to our lack of other options, he has always been our best halfback in any case.

Changing numbers won't change Johnson's game.

Changing numbers will change the perception of who's running the Asylum....clearly...whether you like him or not....it is the coach (a former half himself).

Gavet making the team is exciting.

He won MOM against the Dragons, played well against the Tits D grade side, has stood out in training.

PLeased Roach made it. Cappy has done well uncovering youth talent in his tenure, someone always gets a shot...out of what we have seen Roach is a good option.

Great to have Ben Henry fit again, always tries hard, the Warriors have to start putting those values ahead of 'potential'.

From all accounts this team is basically made up of the people who worked hardest in the off season...again the Warriors must make that the gold standard for selection.
 

Shaun Hewitt

First Grade
Messages
6,517
I'm happy enough with this side.
From what I've heard about the Dragons trial, alot of their tries came through defensive lapses from Lolohea, so perhaps that's why he was moved out to the wing.

Unsure as to how Hurrell performed in pre-season other than 9s as it's all I've seen. I know he's meant to be in great shape, but thats no the only selection criteria.

Rest of the team picks itself to be honest
Will be interesting to see who drops off bench. I'd predict Wright (if no further injuries pop up) and possibly Thompson if the ankle isn't ready for a run
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
From all accounts this team is basically made up of the people who worked hardest in the off season...again the Warriors must make that the gold standard for selection.

This is a pretty good point and a fair way to look at it given the back-end of 2016 the main issue was our stinking attitude. That would surprise, and disappoint me however if Vete didn't work hard in the off-season. There might be a bias towards thinking Gavet worked harder because of his past and the fact he is more of a heart on the sleeve operator than Vete is. We saw with Matagi in '14 (?) when he burst out of the gates, but wasn't able to sustain it at all and got lazy, and was of little use to us. Hopefully that won't be the case with Gavet, however I can see Vete having a more sustained career than James. Would like to be wrong as Gavet has some serious weapons.

Hurrell needed a massive performance or two in pre-season matches to get near the side, and the All-Stars try aside I don't think he produced it. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get his chance within 5-6 rounds, and hopefully he's ready for it. Lolohea did get shown up v the Dragons, but so did Ayshford by Dugan, from memory. Spose he's given more leeway as he was marking Dugan and is a long-term centre, while Lolo was skinned by Evan Aitken. Still, it doesn't sit right for me that all off-season we've been saying Lolo is up to it defensively and has all the hallmarks of a great centre, one bad performance and we're seemingly throwing the baby out with the bath water. That to me, is not coaching. It's selectorial dart throwing.
 

Blair

Coach
Messages
11,204
This is a pretty good point and a fair way to look at it given the back-end of 2016 the main issue was our stinking attitude...

I know that's just a typo...but please don't make this an omen for this season!

It's great to be back on the forum again and thanks to everyone who kept it ticking over during the summer.

I sense a general vibe of cautious optimism from most Warriors supporters, including here. Can't wait for Phil's first game-day thread. I'll be missing the game so will get home and read the realtime updates, hoping it's all 'tries, tries, tries'...with little, or preferrably no, 'Faaaarrrks!'
 
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Big Marn

Bench
Messages
2,969
Ayshford may be getting a run as he is up against his old team, and ex players seem to grow another leg against their old team. Look at all the ex warriors that play us and seem to go extra.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
This is a pretty good point and a fair way to look at it given the back-end of 2016 the main issue was our stinking attitude. That would surprise, and disappoint me however if Vete didn't work hard in the off-season. There might be a bias towards thinking Gavet worked harder because of his past and the fact he is more of a heart on the sleeve operator than Vete is. We saw with Matagi in '14 (?) when he burst out of the gates, but wasn't able to sustain it at all and got lazy, and was of little use to us. Hopefully that won't be the case with Gavet, however I can see Vete having a more sustained career than James. Would like to be wrong as Gavet has some serious weapons.

Hurrell needed a massive performance or two in pre-season matches to get near the side, and the All-Stars try aside I don't think he produced it. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get his chance within 5-6 rounds, and hopefully he's ready for it. Lolohea did get shown up v the Dragons, but so did Ayshford by Dugan, from memory. Spose he's given more leeway as he was marking Dugan and is a long-term centre, while Lolo was skinned by Evan Aitken. Still, it doesn't sit right for me that all off-season we've been saying Lolo is up to it defensively and has all the hallmarks of a great centre, one bad performance and we're seemingly throwing the baby out with the bath water. That to me, is not coaching. It's selectorial dart throwing.

My best guess...and it is only worth that....a guess....is that the coaches have used the opposite thinking to what you have been saying about settled combinations during the off season.

I did hear that the Warriors tried all and sundry in the center wing combinations during the preseason....including rank outsiders CNK and Henare Wells (read Wells makes nines team as an out and out winger and CNK gets Titans trial at center).

It was clear watching the Nines that Wells is a winger. It was hard to make a call on Klockstad as a center in the Titans trial....the rest of our outside backs are a known quantity....good offensively....come up short defensively.

The reason the Warriors used all that time to play around with all possible combo's is obvious....they don't know who's best suited where.

They are basically trying to convert players for the lack of specialists.

The emphasis is defence...so maybe the blame lies with Justin Morgan more than anyone else for the constant chopping and changing.

Morgans philosophy was that he believes the Warriors need a defensive system tailored to the players they have....as opposed to using a generic template (e.g Melbourne's).

So it makes sense that they would bugger around with so many combinations....since in theory....Morgan would need to study all individuals at center and Wing in training...before shaping a defensive pattern to suit those player types (independent variables).

It's an interesting idea, but as you have pointed out...at some point you have to stick people in one position and give them a chance to specialize.

I imagine (rightly or wrongly) that since Morgan was assigned the hardest coaching task at the Warriors (not the hardest in terms of being fired...that would be Cappy....hardest in terms of skills deficits to rectify).....that he was given a lot of sway on the selection and right to meddle with the outside backs.

Seeing Hurrell in good physical shape is encouraging. Cappy has banged on about KPI's with this guy in the past....If Hurrell is serious, it should be relatively achievable to meet those goals in the slower paced NSW cup.

Hurrells short comings regarding performance indicators...we are told...are his off the ball work.

That should tell him (I'm sure he has heard this a hundred times in video analysis...which begs the question...'has he been listening') that he has to prove he is fit enough to basically be in the right place at the right time when he doesn't have the ball.

Where a lot of our players get exposed is not chasing out of marker, other areas include outside backs not pushing up in defence from the inside to help their Winger stay on their line.

Extra bonus points for Kick chases, helping with Kick returns and shielding the fullback for catches under the high ball.

Hurrell could pass the ball a bit more, but there is no point in knit picking at his attacking game...since that has nothing to do with his exclusion from the top grade.

Gavet and Matangi comparisons are fair in terms of impact guys that may or may not last.

Gavet will be at a much higher risk of Injury than other players...it's cause and effect.

Unlike Matangi, Gavet is tall raw boned player whereas Matangi was a short squat type forward. Gavet is a natural trainer, raw strength, keeping weight off and having the lungs to keep going are less an issue for him....he is one of our fittest forwards.

Personally I hope now that Gavet has basically bullied his way into the team, that after the first few rounds, the coaches dial back the level of use and abuse factor they expect of him.

Look after a player like that and they are more likely to learn to pace themselves and last. You should really only lump the responsibility of forcing a momentum shift on an impact player a couple of times in a match....otherwise you need ask questions of what the rest are doing.
 
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JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,720
Gavet making the team is exciting.

He won MOM against the Dragons, played well against the Tits D grade side, has stood out in training.

.

Agree with the rest of it, but this just doesn't make sense - he's got a very chequered history is perhaps the least bad I what must have been an awful performance and played well against a makeshift lineup from the weakest team (on paper in the NRL)?? :crazy::crazy:
 
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