Team versus the Eagles

[Appin Rabbit]

The only positive we got out of that massacre was Sutton returning to the field lets hope he is ok for Friday.Untill we get some backrowers that want to go forward & run off Asotasi we will be cannon fodder for oppostion teams Taylor is playing favourites with McPherson & Lowe who are not 1st Graders at any level I see Leroyd Lahs is off contract at seasons end now he is a goer and runs off everyone.! (Taylor will be lucky to see the 1st round out if he doesn't start getting results quickly, Saturdays effort was disgraceful.

always disappointing to lose , however i see plenty of positives in last nights game
1) it is still early season and we are still in the hunt with 3-3.
2)there were no significant injuries
3) we played a team described as one of the greats just two months ago, who were either going to be on their game last night for a back to back or a rabble. They were on their game and from the stats played almost a perfect game of football in the first half.
4) we dropped the ball all over the place , especially in the second half , yet won the second half.8-6.
5) two of the Manly tries directly from Souths poor handling.
6) given the possession and territory advantage , Souths defence continues to be good and top 4 material
6) not to mention coming off a close loss to Bulldogs 5 days ago , which i am more disappointed with then the Manly loss, which was expected. Look at the ODDS for Manly game. This was not "smart money" reflection on Souths , it was an assessment on Manly coming into form.
7) I would rather beat Manly in the Semi and knock them out at that time .
8) more important to eat the Sharks on friday.A win here will be expected.

 

[Tommax25]

Hoo-bloody-ray, you understand this at last.

Manly played well too.

Ok then, just ignore the rest of the sentence that disagrees with your point of view. Good debate :roll:

You are a gracious loser dave q, and I'm sure that once people like capewell and sandow gain more experience that souths will not have too many more performances like last night.

 

[Tommax25]

always disappointing to lose , however i see plenty of positives in last nights game
1) it is still early season and we are still in the hunt with 3-3.
2)there were no significant injuries
3) we played a team described as one of the greats just two months ago, who were either going to be on their game last night for a back to back or a rabble. They were on their game and from the stats played almost a perfect game of football in the first half.
4) we dropped the ball all over the place , especially in the second half , yet won the second half.8-6.
5) two of the Manly tries directly from Souths poor handling.
6) given the possession and territory advantage , Souths defence continues to be good and top 4 material
6) not to mention coming off a close loss to Bulldogs 5 days ago , which i am more disappointed with then the Manly loss, which was expected. Look at the ODDS for Manly game. This was not "smart money" reflection on Souths , it was an assessment on Manly coming into form.
7) I would rather beat Manly in the Semi and knock them out at that time .
8) more important to eat the Sharks on friday.A win here will be expected.

How are they positives arising from last nights game?

 

[Lynch]

shall i get the cat of nine tails out on the boys?

Wee need to utterly smash cronulla on friday. i mean by at least 20-30 points

 

[Nickmm]

The only positive we got out of that massacre was Sutton returning to the field lets hope he is ok for Friday.Untill we get some backrowers that want to go forward & run off Asotasi we will be cannon fodder for oppostion teams Taylor is playing favourites with McPherson & Lowe who are not 1st Graders at any level I see Leroyd Lahs is off contract at seasons end now he is a goer and runs off everyone.! (Taylor will be lucky to see the 1st round out if he doesn't start getting results quickly, Saturdays effort was disgraceful.

I agree with Lowe and Mcpherson and the fact that Taylor is playing favorites as he has always done,, that is and always will be our downfall. if you train hard you get into the team, Dont worry about ability that comes 2nd.
I saw the interview with Colin Best the other day and it seems like every time i hear an interview from the players they are trying to convince us they are happy with JT.
I think JT is playing Sutton and Wing all wrong, if Sutton is going to stay at 5/8 he should alternate him and Wing between lock and 5/8 during games. also Issac, Sutton and Wing should stay on the field for 80min they are fit players and should not be benched for a rest. the forwards need the rest.
As for Sandow, everyone refers to his missed tackles but id like to know how many tackles he goes into, the stats look bad but the poor guy is making plenty and if he doesnt complete a tackle he slows them down enough for some else to finish it off. He is a 120kg forward trapped in a 75kg half backs body, he's got some ticker!

 

[big country]

I agree with Lowe and Mcpherson and the fact that Taylor is playing favorites as he has always done,, that is and always will be our downfall. if you train hard you get into the team, Dont worry about ability that comes 2nd.
I saw the interview with Colin Best the other day and it seems like every time i hear an interview from the players they are trying to convince us they are happy with JT.
I think JT is playing Sutton and Wing all wrong, if Sutton is going to stay at 5/8 he should alternate him and Wing between lock and 5/8 during games. also Issac, Sutton and Wing should stay on the field for 80min they are fit players and should not be benched for a rest. the forwards need the rest.
As for Sandow, everyone refers to his missed tackles but id like to know how many tackles he goes into, the stats look bad but the poor guy is making plenty and if he doesnt complete a tackle he slows them down enough for some else to finish it off. He is a 120kg forward trapped in a 75kg half backs body, he's got some ticker!

with due respect i think we are losing the point here - we didnt lose that game because of selection errors or positional errors, we lost that game because of basic footballing errors - doesnt matter who is selected where, if you continually drop the ball, play the ball incorrectly, kick the ball out on the full you aint gonna win no match.......if I was JT i'd stick with the same line up but send a rocket up all of them for committing such basic errors!!

 

[Dave Q]

Ok then, just ignore the rest of the sentence that disagrees with your point of view. Good debate :roll:

You are a gracious loser dave q, and I'm sure that once people like capewell and sandow gain more experience that souths will not have too many more performances like last night.

What debate, you dont understand the law and then try to ascribe beliefs to me that I didnt have by saying I was making a point about something which I was not.

You conceded that the presumption of innocence doesnt mean someone is innocent. Thats the main point.

Innocent or guilty, after a few beers, I wouldnt let the player in question anywhere any near any female I cared about,

I am not a gracious loser either, just practicable.

Manly played well they were very very impressive, while we, except for a few fleeting and mad moments, completely and utterly sucked.

hate=win

Kill or be killed Tommax.

 

[Dave Q]

with due respect i think we are losing the point here - we didnt lose that game because of selection errors or positional errors, we lost that game because of basic footballing errors - doesnt matter who is selected where, if you continually drop the ball, play the ball incorrectly, kick the ball out on the full you aint gonna win no match.......if I was JT i'd stick with the same line up but send a rocket up all of them for committing such basic errors!![/quote]

We should thrash them within an inch of their miserable league lives!

We are way too soft. A stuffed pink panda is more threatening.

Kill or be killed.

 

[African Monkey]

with due respect i think we are losing the point here - we didnt lose that game because of selection errors or positional errors, we lost that game because of basic footballing errors - doesnt matter who is selected where, if you continually drop the ball, play the ball incorrectly, kick the ball out on the full you aint gonna win no match.......if I was JT i'd stick with the same line up but send a rocket up all of them for committing such basic errors!![/quote]

We should thrash them within an inch of their miserable league lives!

We are way too soft. A stuffed pink panda is more threatening.

Kill or be killed.

I agree dave. We are twinkies who need to harden the f**k up or else it will be 38 years with sfa.

Kill or be killed.

 

[big country]

I agree dave. We are twinkies who need to harden the f**k up or else it will be 38 years with sfa.

Kill or be killed.

the biggest worry for me is that we're not improving but getting worse with our skills each week - it was painful to watch and again i had trouble sleeping that night when i got home!! the only player that looked like he didnt want to be killed was Wingy the way he broke through 4 tacklers to score

 

[African Monkey]

the biggest worry for me is that we're not improving but getting worse with our skills each week - it was painful to watch and again i had trouble sleeping that night when i got home!! the only player that looked like he didnt want to be killed was Wingy the way he broke through 4 tacklers to score

Add Capewell to the list as well. Yes it is painful to watch and us fans want better. What they are giving at the moment is unacceptable and changes need to be made for this weeks match. If we don't win this week, then forget about doing anything worthwhile this year.

FFS players kill or be killed.

 

[big country]

Add Capewell to the list as well. Yes it is painful to watch and us fans want better. What they are giving at the moment is unacceptable and changes need to be made for this weeks match. If we don't win this week, then forget about doing anything worthwhile this year.

FFS players kill or be killed.

AM the worst part about it is that I am having trouble isolating a player or players who are at fault because it's really EVERYONE atm.....sure Capewell knocked on and that led to a try but then so too did Roy but then a host of other errors were made - we seem to have lapses in concentration and it's hurting us big time - they had better get this out of their system or we are gooooone on friday - and i hope they dont expect to be able to just front up against the sharks or we have another thing coming

 

[African Monkey]

AM the worst part about it is that I am having trouble isolating a player or players who are at fault because it's really EVERYONE atm.....sure Capewell knocked on and that led to a try but then so too did Roy but then a host of other errors were made - we seem to have lapses in concentration and it's hurting us big time - they had better get this out of their system or we are gooooone on friday - and i hope they dont expect to be able to just front up against the sharks or we have another thing coming

I was saying add Capewell to the list who didn't want to be killed. He played very well apart from that f**k up playing the ball. But yeah, we should be looking to put away Cronulla and convincingly as well. They are a team that should be thrashed and we better turn up to play.

Kill or be killed.

 

[big country]

yep, capewell is improving every game - the errors are becoming less and less and he is a good stand in for Rhys - we need 17 players at the same time who dont want to be killed not just a couple each week

If you even dream of beating me you'd better wake up and apologize.
Muhammad Ali

 

[Tommax25]

What debate, you dont understand the law and then try to ascribe beliefs to me that I didnt have by saying I was making a point about something which I was not.

You conceded that the presumption of innocence doesnt mean someone is innocent. Thats the main point.

I conceded that having the presumption of innocence deosnt mean someone cannot be guilty. Big difference. I dont think I have once seen you say that stewart could be innocent. Right now, is stewart guilty or innocent? Wait, I can see it now. "You and I were not there we dont know what happened. He could be as guilty as sin. A footballer on the drink should not be going anywhere near women."

Your arguments are p*ssweak mate. I am simply affording stewart his right to be presumed innocent, whereas you are dismissing that as irrelavant with such comments as "he could be as guilty as sin". Okay, so he could be guilty :shock:. Big shock, considering it is one of two options. He could also be innocent, but that never once enters your head because in your mind he is already guilty, forget the trial, throw him away and leave him to rot. Forget his presumption to innocence. I'll ask again. Right now, is stewart guilty or innocent?

 

[Dave Q]

I conceded that having the presumption of innocence deosnt mean someone cannot be guilty. Big difference. I dont think I have once seen you say that stewart could be innocent. Right now, is stewart guilty or innocent? Wait, I can see it now. "You and I were not there we dont know what happened. He could be as guilty as sin. A footballer on the drink should not be going anywhere near women."

Your arguments are p*ssweak mate. I am simply affording stewart his right to be presumed innocent, whereas you are dismissing that as irrelavant with such comments as "he could be as guilty as sin". Okay, so he could be guilty :shock:. Big shock, considering it is one of two options. He could also be innocent, but that never once enters your head because in your mind he is already guilty, forget the trial, throw him away and leave him to rot. Forget his presumption to innocence. I'll ask again. Right now, is stewart guilty or innocent?

The game was last week, you won and you are still here like a rabid Manly fan, carrying on.

The young teenage girl made the "000" phone call immediately after the event.

Stewart has been in trouble with females before.

The cops are going ahead with the case, so at least they must think the girl is telling the truth.

A lot of league fans Ive talked to, they dont care about the niceties of the legal system, presumptions etc, rightly or wrongly, they tend to have faith in the cops and the cops have charged him. They dont always get it right, but they have had the opportunity to withdraw and they have determined not to.

A presumption of innocence is a legal construct, as you said, it doesnt mean that in fact he is innocent. Thats for the courts to determine.

A lot of rugby league commentators, people in the game and the Premier of NSW think he shouldnt be playing until the question of his guilt or innocence is resolved. I agree, Manly dont.

Stewart is probably going to cop it at every away game he plays in and probably at Origin as well even in NSW.

Thats becasue people have opinions... which in a democracy... rightly or wrongly, they are entitled to hold and subject to law, voice.

I have never said he is guilty, I dont know, I wasnt there.

Its a very serious charge, he could go to gaol for many years.

Being very drunk and therefore not realising what you are doing is not a legal defence to a crime in NSW.

I suggest you expend your energies supporting your team and not whinging about people having a different view to your own, because in this case, you could spend your every waking moment trying to achieve this for little or no result.

hate=win

Kill or be killed.

Capewell is going OK.

 

[Tommax25]

The game was last week, you won and you are still here like a rabid Manly fan, carrying on.

Mate, where have I had a go at your team, laughed at souths for losing, laughed at you/souths fans for losing? I have not mentioned that game since the praise souths recieved from me in a post in this thread. We are dicussing a different matter. If manly had lost by 60 or won by 60 I would stil be here discussing that matter.

The young teenage girl made the "000" phone call immediately after the event.

Stewart has been in trouble with females before.

The cops are going ahead with the case, so at least they must think the girl is telling the truth.

Relevance to guilt or innocence = 0. I realise I'm flogging a dead horse here but I am simply saying he has the right to be regarded as innocent until he is proven guilty. All these types of thing you keep mentioning are irrelevant to that at this stage.

A lot of league fans Ive talked to, they dont care about the niceties of the legal system, presumptions etc, rightly or wrongly, they tend to have faith in the cops and the cops have charged him. They dont always get it right, but they have had the opportunity to withdraw and they have determined not to.

A lot of rugby league commentators, people in the game and the Premier of NSW think he shouldnt be playing until the question of his guilt or innocence is resolved. I agree, Manly dont.
Stewart is probably going to cop it at every away game he plays in and probably at Origin as well even in NSW.
Its a very serious charge, he could go to gaol for many years.

And fair enough, thats their and your opinion to have. I personally have a problem with condeming a person before they have had a chance to defend themself, refute claims ect ect.

As for the bolded, its irrelavant to the point we are discussin, ie: his guilty or innocence.

A presumption of innocence is a legal construct, as you said, it doesnt mean that in fact he is innocent. Thats for the courts to determine.

Agreed. It does not mean he will be found non guilty or did not commit the crime. All it means is he is innocent until he is proven guilty, and as you said he could be as "guilty as sin" or he could be cleared. But conversely, can you see/admit that being charged by police does not mean he is guilty?






I have never said he is guilty, I dont know, I wasnt there.

Being very drunk and therefore not realising what you are doing is not a legal defence to a crime in NSW.

Doesnt make him guilty either. He'll have his day in court, and if he did the wrong thing he'll get whats coming to him.

I suggest you expend your energies supporting your team and not whinging about people having a different view to your own, because in this case, you could spend your every waking moment trying to achieve this for little or no result.

I'll take your advice right now, for a moment. I think manly are gone for 2009 with stewart out for so long.

Tbh, I only want a little result, an answer to the part where I used the word conversely. Will I get it? Only you know dave q, only you know...

 

[Dave Q]

Alll of your arguments have been a wate Tommax because I didnt set out to try to argue that he was guilty. Thats something you thought I was doing. Next time, you should clear the ground before you rave on.

Under law he is presumed innocent.

He has already said he was pissed as and cant remember. The girl and the father say they can remember.

Based on this alone, his prospects of being found to be not guilty are not so good.

As a NSWman and an Aussie, it is bad news.

Manly are playing well, they dont need him.

 

[Sugar]

No Means No