The annual finals system debate thread

[supersoniceagle]

AFL system is better.

 

[Eels Dude]

i think the current systems ok but the days the games r played r wrong.
the first game should be 1 v 8 on friday second game 2 v 7 on sat 630 that way teams 3rd 4 5 6 would know that if they lose there out

Uh... that's the whole reason why they AREN'T played in that order. If they are and 1st and 2nd win... then the remaining 4 sides all know they'll be there the second week, and they'll just reverve opponents in elimination matches, and nothing can change that. Therefore the last 2 games on the 1st wknd are pointless.

 

[SET2JT]

Uh... that's the whole reason why they AREN'T played in that order. If they are and 1st and 2nd win... then the remaining 4 sides all know they'll be there the second week, and they'll just reverve opponents in elimination matches, and nothing can change that. Therefore the last 2 games on the 1st wknd are pointless.

and wat if they dont win?
all im saying was a few years back the dragons 5th vs panthers 4th the dragons lost.the day after the dogs2nd let the cowboys 7th win 2 knock the dragons out. when u think about it a lot of sids who come 1st or 2nd should do lose the 1st game so they will knock out a stronger team like this year broncos or roosters.

 

[Eels Dude]

and wat if they dont win?
all im saying was a few years back the dragons 5th vs panthers 4th the dragons lost.the day after the dogs2nd let the cowboys 7th win 2 knock the dragons out. when u think about it a lot of sids who come 1st or 2nd should do lose the 1st game so they will knock out a stronger team like this year broncos or roosters.

That's the point.

The Dragons and Panthers both had everything to play for that year because they both know they COULD get knocked out in that game. If the other matches are played first and the favourites win, then 4th vs 5th becomes irrelevent as regardless of what happens both clubs will be playing elimination the following week.

 

[Enoughsaid]

AFL system
1x4 winner gets a week off -loser plays winner from 5-8
2x3 winner gets a week off -loser plays winner from 6-7

5-8 loser gone
6-7 loser gone

and so on

 

[Rovelli]

The order is correct.

Just for the record, the Dragons cut their own necks in that game, falling down 24-0 in the first half. Good comeback, but too little, too late.

I don't mind Warren Ryan's model.

 

[El Diablo]

why do people refer to it as the AFL system when we used it first :?

 

[sting]

cause its the one afl uses now?

 

[mepelthwack]

The only way a top 8 system can be fair is if the entire top 4 get a 2nd bite at the cherry (if beaten prior to GF day) and the entire bottom 4 play constant sudden death.

McIntyre does not allow for this.

In fact, 6th place can be flogged by 50 points and yet get another chance while the minor premiers can lose by 1 point in extra time, as their only semi-final loss and be eliminated.

Yet Annesley will not look at viable alternatives.

Ryan's system is also flawed by the way, as is the so-called AFL system.

I submited my sytem to the NRL years ago and it is supposedly filed away but because I am not a RL personality it hasn't been taken seriously.

I guarantee it's better/fairer than all the other formulas, nonetheless.

My series goes for 5 weeks and reverts to (wk 2 of) the old Top 5 system by week 3. No top 4 side can be knocked out after 1 loss (before GF day) and no bottom 4 side ever gets a 2nd chance (this is fixed and can never change no matter the results).

For this example we will assume the higher ranked team wins

wk 1 (First team has home advantage - E = elimination semi)

1 v 4
2 v 3

5 v 8 E
6 v 7 E

wk 2 (First team listed still has home advantage)

3 v 6 E
4 v 5 E

wk 3 (All games neutral venues from now on)

1 v 2 (winner straight to GF)
3 v 4 E

wk 4

2 v 3 E

wk 5 - Grand final

1 v 2

If any teams 5-8 make or indeed win the GF they really deserve it under this system because it's a hard road for them (yet their week 1 chances are better than in the McIntyre)

The Top 4 are rewarded fairly for a consistent season and the rewards are scaled based on their finishing positions. 3 and 4 have a tougher 1st week than now but it's also a bigger, more meaningful game with bigger rewards than now and if they lose they still get a home semi against one of the bottom 4.

All semis have more meaning in fact, than they do now.

Anyway as soon as Annesley retires I'll push it hard at the NRL again, just biding my time (or waiting for some1 with some clout to help me push it).

 

[Nuke]

Personally, I quite like the current McIntyre Finals setup.
I like that teams 1-4 are rewarded with home finals, and that no-one knows who will play who until all the games from week1 are finished.

I also like the fact that Brisbane and Cronulla can be booted out after this weekend if results allow this!

 

[LeagueNut]

The McIntyre system has two huge advantages over any other system:

1) All top 4 teams are rewarded with a home final in the first weekend

2) Lower ranked teams need to fight their way through the best teams to proceed, instead of potentially playing themselves into better form with finals matches against other lower ranked teams

 

[Pierced Soul]

The only way a top 8 system can be fair is if the entire top 4 get a 2nd bite at the cherry (if beaten prior to GF day) and the entire bottom 4 play constant sudden death.

McIntyre does not allow for this.

In fact, 6th place can be flogged by 50 points and yet get another chance while the minor premiers can lose by 1 point in extra time, as their only semi-final loss and be eliminated.

Yet Annesley will not look at viable alternatives.

Ryan's system is also flawed by the way, as is the so-called AFL system.

I submited my sytem to the NRL years ago and it is supposedly filed away but because I am not a RL personality it hasn't been taken seriously.

I guarantee it's better/fairer than all the other formulas, nonetheless.

My series goes for 5 weeks and reverts to (wk 2 of) the old Top 5 system by week 3. No top 4 side can be knocked out after 1 loss (before GF day) and no bottom 4 side ever gets a 2nd chance (this is fixed and can never change no matter the results).

For this example we will assume the higher ranked team wins

wk 1 (First team has home advantage - E = elimination semi)

1 v 4
2 v 3

5 v 8 E
6 v 7 E

wk 2 (First team listed still has home advantage)

3 v 6 E
4 v 5 E

wk 3 (All games neutral venues from now on)

1 v 2 (winner straight to GF)
3 v 4 E

wk 4

2 v 3 E

wk 5 - Grand final

1 v 2

If any teams 5-8 make or indeed win the GF they really deserve it under this system because it's a hard road for them (yet their week 1 chances are better than in the McIntyre)

The Top 4 are rewarded fairly for a consistent season and the rewards are scaled based on their finishing positions. 3 and 4 have a tougher 1st week than now but it's also a bigger, more meaningful game with bigger rewards than now and if they lose they still get a home semi against one of the bottom 4.

All semis have more meaning in fact, than they do now.

Anyway as soon as Annesley retires I'll push it hard at the NRL again, just biding my time (or waiting for some1 with some clout to help me push it).

this is a pretty good model and allows for fairness in games

one thing the mcintyre system does is give unpredictability with the draw very much dependent on other results. this in a way is good, but also throws up some anomalies.

i personally think 8 is too many teams, and i also liked the top 5 system where if you finished 5th you'd have to beat EVERYONE to get the premiership (likee the broncos in '93)

 

[Jobdog]

AFL System ----> NRL system

 

[scuzzi]

NRL system is much better than AFL.

The best teams should play each other at the end of the finals series, not the begining. For me it spoils the the drama of it. If melbourne and manly win there first game. Then the only time they can play each other is in a grand final.

Under the AFL system, your much more likely to see a match in the first week of the finals that will eventually be the grand final. eg 2nd v 3rd, 1st vs 4th. And in my opinion it would spoil the grand final a bit if it was a replay of a match that happened 2 weeks ago.

It happened in 05' when tigers played cowboys in first week of the finals and slaughtered them. As a result the was less unpredictability about the grand final, and therefore less interest.

 

[Hass]

NRL system is much better than AFL.

The best teams should play each other at the end of the finals series, not the begining. For me it spoils the the drama of it. If melbourne and manly win there first game. Then the only time they can play each other is in a grand final.

Under the AFL system, your much more likely to see a match in the first week of the finals that will eventually be the grand final. eg 2nd v 3rd, 1st vs 4th. And in my opinion it would spoil the grand final a bit if it was a replay of a match that happened 2 weeks ago.

It happened in 05' when tigers played cowboys in first week of the finals and slaughtered them. As a result the was less unpredictability about the grand final, and therefore less interest.

I take the opposite view.

Under the old final five we'd often see the same teams play in the Major Semi-Final and the Grand Final. It built up a rivalry that increased interest. Often the result from the Major SF would be reversed in the Grand Final - not exactly predictable.

In 1994 (the last year of the final five) I remember Canterbury pipping Canberra in a great Major Semi-Final. The question in the week before the Grand Final was "can this great Canberra team turn it around?" - and the answer was yes, with the Raiders thumping the Dogs by more than 20 points.

There's every chance we won't see Manly and Melbourne play each other at all in this final series if one of them stumbles before the Grand Final - and that would be a shame.

Cheers.

 

[Marshall_magic]

The only way a top 8 system can be fair is if the entire top 4 get a 2nd bite at the cherry (if beaten prior to GF day) and the entire bottom 4 play constant sudden death.

McIntyre does not allow for this.

In fact, 6th place can be flogged by 50 points and yet get another chance while the minor premiers can lose by 1 point in extra time, as their only semi-final loss and be eliminated.

Yet Annesley will not look at viable alternatives.

Ryan's system is also flawed by the way, as is the so-called AFL system.

I submited my sytem to the NRL years ago and it is supposedly filed away but because I am not a RL personality it hasn't been taken seriously.

I guarantee it's better/fairer than all the other formulas, nonetheless.

My series goes for 5 weeks and reverts to (wk 2 of) the old Top 5 system by week 3. No top 4 side can be knocked out after 1 loss (before GF day) and no bottom 4 side ever gets a 2nd chance (this is fixed and can never change no matter the results).

For this example we will assume the higher ranked team wins

wk 1 (First team has home advantage - E = elimination semi)

1 v 4
2 v 3

5 v 8 E
6 v 7 E

wk 2 (First team listed still has home advantage)

3 v 6 E
4 v 5 E

wk 3 (All games neutral venues from now on)

1 v 2 (winner straight to GF)
3 v 4 E

wk 4

2 v 3 E

wk 5 - Grand final

1 v 2

If any teams 5-8 make or indeed win the GF they really deserve it under this system because it's a hard road for them (yet their week 1 chances are better than in the McIntyre)

The Top 4 are rewarded fairly for a consistent season and the rewards are scaled based on their finishing positions. 3 and 4 have a tougher 1st week than now but it's also a bigger, more meaningful game with bigger rewards than now and if they lose they still get a home semi against one of the bottom 4.

All semis have more meaning in fact, than they do now.

Anyway as soon as Annesley retires I'll push it hard at the NRL again, just biding my time (or waiting for some1 with some clout to help me push it).

This will send the winner of 1 vs 2 into the Grand Final underdone, 1 game in 3 weeks will kill off any momentum they built previously.

I like the current NRL system, it keeps you guessing, and offers many different possibilities for week 2 of the finals. The series will be removed when the following happens

8 beat 1
2 beat 7
3 beat 6
4 beat 5

team 4 will get rewarded for beating 5th place by being given an elimination match against 1st, whilst 5th, who lost to 4th, will be given a match against 8th.

But the beauty of the system is the upsets, we generally are given a showdown between 2 top 4 teams in week 2, and then we get an underdog into week 3.

 

[Hanscholo]

Im sorry but there is nothing wrong with the system. If you lose in the second week of the finals, bad luck. If you lose in the first week and cop a bad side the week after bad luck.

Finals are about winning, keep winning and your fine, lose and you take your chances.

The top 4 get a home ground semi final first week, they get to play lesser opposition and unless they are extremely unlucky AND lose at HOME then they wont be bundled out in the first week.

Imo if your in the top 4 and you lose at home during the first week then stiff sh*t, your obviously not winning the comp anyway.

 

[parano1a]

AFL system >>>>>>>>>>> Daylight >>>>>>> NRL system

Advantages of each team in AFL system:

1st & 2nd: TWO Home finals, Double Chance

3rd & 4th: ONE Home final, Double Chance

5th & 6th: ONE Home final. No double chance.

7th & 8th: No home finals, no double chance.


In the NRL system 5th & 6th can potentially get the double chance, while 3rd & 4th can be eliminated first week which is unjust

 

[pcpp]

The players and commentators aren't even exactly sure how it works:

They all seem to think that the Broncos will definitely play next week after the win (they need two upsets to get a home preliminary).

Laurie said "it looks they may get a home semi" - all winners in the first week will get a home match the next finals match they play - even 8th, if they win.

The best was when Nathan Brown comments after losing in 2005 and getting knocked out first week.

 

[*Paul*]

All winners in the first week will get a home match the next finals match they play - even 8th, if they win.

Which is a good improvement on what it used to be. Gives some bite to those potentially who-cares middle two games.

Finals are about winning, keep winning and your fine, lose and you take your chances.

Should be 1v8, 2v7 etc, all sudden death, higher *placed* teams get home ground.