The annual finals system debate thread

[Hanscholo]

The Macintyre System has had it's critics in the past but the 2008 final series has highlighted a need for change.

Beside Manly supporters...no-one else would agree that the Sea Eagles were a 40 point better side then the rest of the competition.

I believe the AFL top 8 is a much better system...is anyone talking about it in this forum?

Did Macintyre in some way make the Storm lose at home against a pretty avg side? Cause that is why they had to go to Brisbane and then Sydney. Had Manly lost to StGeorge they would have had a similar problem.

I dont see how we can make it any fairer for the top 2. The first weekend of the semis rewards you for your effort during the season. Then, its a new comp. Its about winning your games, like all semi final systems have been in the past, getting another chance for losing a semi is value enough, let alone a home game and the chance of another home game two weeks later to top it off. The reward for the top sides is there, they just need to win to get it.

The only possible complaint some teams might have is that its unfair to have to play a 2nd round game at your oppositions home ground rather than a nuetral venue. It is kind of unfair to me, and favours Brisbane and Melbourne much more than other sides.

If Melbourne had beaten the warriors they would have played their next game at home then the GF. They have nobody other than themselves to blame for what happened to their season end.

Since we have had the McIntyre system, can you honestly say we have had a premiereship side that didnt deserve it?

The Roosters can moan about getting the warriors at home, but i note that many have not. The Roosters lost at home, and gave up their position in the ranking, if they even deserved another chance at all its certainly not on their terms. As it turned out they were quite pleased to get the warriors because they do well there. It ended badly for them but thats what you get when you lose first up, yout get thrown to the wolves and if your good enough as melbourne were you can claw your way back.

On the whole i dont mind the system. I dont like the home ground nature of the finals, week one being something i can stomach but not like. I understand why games are moved away from nuetral venues, there is nothing we can do about that and its here to stay. I would however prefer the home games to be a little more accesable for those sides inside NSW. For instance, if Melbourne beat the warriors they would have taken the week off and two weeks later would have played the major semi at home in melbourne to get into the GF. Now if that was Newcastle we would have played the next game at the SFS not EAS and i for one think that system is very biased and should be reviewed.

 

[Timmah]

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=210902

 

[Charlie124]

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=210902

THERE we go.

 

[Timmah]

Tom Shines beat me to the point I was making ;-)

 

[Chaos]

Some advantages the AFL system has over the current NRL system

-More home advantages to higher ranked teams
- no dead rubber games
- top sides can prepare themselves for a tough first game
- fans get evenly matched games throughout he entire series
- easy to understand pathway for all


I can understand loyal supporters sticking up for their code but I haven't heard any advantages for the current NRL system.

 

[adamkungl]

Some advantages the AFL system has over the current NRL system

-More home advantages to higher ranked teams
- no dead rubber games
- top sides can prepare themselves for a tough first game
- fans get evenly matched games throughout he entire series
- easy to understand pathway for all


I can understand loyal supporters sticking up for their code but I haven't heard any advantages for the current NRL system.

-bad thing
-wha?
-why should they have a tough first game
-games are evenly matches after the first week
-boo freakin hoo, grow a f**king brain

your so called 'advantages' dont exist.
I prefer rewarding winning in the finals than giving over the top rewards for finishing higher in the season. Its the finals, whole new ball game, winning is EVERYTHING.

 

[Panthers888]

A good example of the failures of the McIntyre system-

Finals WEEK 1 2004-

1 def. 8
7 def. 2
6 def. 3

Under these circumstances, the winner of 4 v 5 gets a week off, the other says goodbye.

A bit extreme, methinks.

 

[Gaba]

A good example of the failures of the McIntyre system-

Finals WEEK 1 2004-

1 def. 8
7 def. 2
6 def. 3

Under these circumstances, the winner of 4 v 5 gets a week off, the other says goodbye.

A bit extreme, methinks.

Why 2nd and 3rd lost , so did 5th and 8th and knocked out same as in the afl system is 5th and 8th lost in week 1
4th was good enough not to lose to a lower ranked team

Why it is a bit extreme ? 2nd and 3rd gets a second chance same as the afl system but with the afl system they get rewarded for losing.

that is what you call a bit unfair the afl system rewarding the losers with a home game

you can have that in the afl system too where the 4th team gets a week off after winning week 1

 

[adamkungl]

A good example of the failures of the McIntyre system-

Finals WEEK 1 2004-

1 def. 8
7 def. 2
6 def. 3

Under these circumstances, the winner of 4 v 5 gets a week off, the other says goodbye.

A bit extreme, methinks.

why should 5th expect a second chance for losing ffs...

 

[Marshall_magic]

A good example of the failures of the McIntyre system-

Finals WEEK 1 2004-

1 def. 8
7 def. 2
6 def. 3

Under these circumstances, the winner of 4 v 5 gets a week off, the other says goodbye.

A bit extreme, methinks.

If 7th were good enough to beat 2nd, 6th were good enough to beat 3rd, but 5th weren't good enough to beat 4th, logic would say that 7th and 6th deserve to stay on but 5th don't.

That said, it was a harsh end for the Dragons that year, losing by 1 point and getting booted for it.

 

[Gaba]

Some advantages the AFL system has over the current NRL system

-More home advantages to higher ranked teams
- no dead rubber games
- top sides can prepare themselves for a tough first game
- fans get evenly matched games throughout he entire series
- easy to understand pathway for all


I can understand loyal supporters sticking up for their code but I haven't heard any advantages for the current NRL system.

The disadvantage the afl system has over the fairer macintyre system

The top ranked teams play harder games in week 1
the losers get rewarded in week 2

now comparing the afl system pathway with the macintyre systems same

if teams 1 and teams 2 win week off

the lowest ranked losing teams are out

if teams 1 and 2 lose they play week 2

the highest ranking teams get the week off

so how can the afl system be easier to understand when it works exactly the same ?

Got me confused cant figure that one out

 

[Gaba]

If 7th were good enough to beat 2nd, 6th were good enough to beat 3rd, but 5th weren't good enough to beat 4th, logic would say that 7th and 6th deserve to stay on but 5th don't.

That said, it was a harsh end for the Dragons that year, losing by 1 point and getting booted for it.

Lets say that was in the afl system dragons 5th and they lost to the 8th placed team , same result they are out by losing by 1 point

so no one can defend the afl system by its better because its not

 

[Marshall_magic]

Lets say that was in the afl system dragons 5th and they lost to the 8th placed team , same result they are out by losing by 1 point

Never said it was unfair, it would be tough dropping a game by 1, then watching 2 upsets resulting in you getting the boot.

The thing I don't like about the AFL system is that the low ranked sides don't get the chance to comeback in the series and gain an advantage. In the NRL system if you finish 5-8 you still have the chance to obtain a home semi by defeating a top 4 side.

 

[Gaba]

Never said it was unfair, it would be tough dropping a game by 1, then watching 2 upsets resulting in you getting the boot.

I understand what you mean , but when you think of it this is why the league should never get rid of the macintyre system, because it will make teams play to thier potential , where in the afl system teams 3 and 4 if they know they cant beat teams 1 and 2 in week 1, dont have to play to their potential because they know they will get rewarded twice by getting a home ground and the 2nd chance.

So the afl system is a bit dodgy, but teams 3 and 4 in the macintyre system arent certain they will get a 2nd chance if they lose to a lower ranked team, thats why they will play more to their potential knowing they could be out after a lost

 

[Chaos]

-boo freakin hoo, grow a f**king brain

Adamkungl,

I wouldn't be going around public telling people to grow a “f**king brain” especially when you didn’t understand what I typed.

I was referring to a particular teams pathway...I don’t know if you were bothered to look at the AFL system but the pathway for teams in the NRL (after the Warriors beat the Storm) totally changed.

Regardless of your age…you need to open your mind a bit and give others respect.

 

[Hass]

The best two tams made the Grand Final this year in spite of the McIntyre system not because of it.

Manly and Melbourne managing to win enough games to make their way through doesn't excuse the gross flaws in the system.

In 2004 5th lost in the first week and were eliminated immediatly.

The next year 5th lost in the first week and went on to make the Grand Final.

Most years produce dead rubbers. 6 can lose to 3 in the first week and stay alive - apart from a possible home advantage for team 3, both side go into week two in the same position.

From 1926 to 1994 the minor premiers always got a second chance before the Grand Final. It seemed pretty fair to me. Now you can lose one match and not even make the big one.

Neither the McIntyre system nor the AFL top 8 solve this problem, but the latter doesn't have as many ridiculous flaws.

A lot of people have grown up with the McIntyre system and forget what life was like before it - that's no excuse for overlooking its flaws.

 

[Marshall_magic]

The best two tams made the Grand Final this year in spite of the McIntyre system not because of it.

Manly and Melbourne managing to win enough games to make their way through doesn't excuse the gross flaws in the system.

In 2004 5th lost in the first week and were eliminated immediatly.

The next year 5th lost in the first week and went on to make the Grand Final.

Most years produce dead rubbers. 6 can lose to 3 in the first week and stay alive - apart from a possible home advantage for team 3, both side go into week two in the same position.

From 1926 to 1994 the minor premiers always got a second chance before the Grand Final. It seemed pretty fair to me. Now you can lose one match and not even make the big one.

Neither the McIntyre system nor the AFL top 8 solve this problem, but the latter doesn't have as many ridiculous flaws.

A lot of people have grown up with the McIntyre system and forget what life was like before it - that's no excuse for overlooking its flaws.

First gets a second chance if they lose week 1, after that there should be no second chances. It's ridiculous to do otherwise. The McIntyre system throws out a degree of lottery, which is the beauty of it. It gives low ranked sides a chance to knock off a big name team, to potentially set up some thrillers for week 2 (Broncos vs Storm). The old ARL system doesn't offer this lottery, and there is a strong chance that week 1 opponents will meet in the big one.

 

[Chaos]

The best two tams made the Grand Final this year in spite of the McIntyre system not because of it.

Manly and Melbourne managing to win enough games to make their way through doesn't excuse the gross flaws in the system.

In 2004 5th lost in the first week and were eliminated immediatly.

The next year 5th lost in the first week and went on to make the Grand Final.

Most years produce dead rubbers. 6 can lose to 3 in the first week and stay alive - apart from a possible home advantage for team 3, both side go into week two in the same position.

From 1926 to 1994 the minor premiers always got a second chance before the Grand Final. It seemed pretty fair to me. Now you can lose one match and not even make the big one.

Neither the McIntyre system nor the AFL top 8 solve this problem, but the latter doesn't have as many ridiculous flaws.

A lot of people have grown up with the McIntyre system and forget what life was like before it - that's no excuse for overlooking its flaws.

We currently have a very close competition between 16 teams...the Warriors beating Storm showed how close the comp is.... top 8 is understandable in such a comp but is the comp too close?
The closer the comp the more spread out our top players are...every team has a high profile player but only two teams can make the grand final...a lot of great players don't play in the grand final.
At the other extreme...a two horse race would see blowouts during the season but a great grand final match up.

I'd like to see the comp somewhere inbetween these two extremes.

 

[Loudstrat]

The Minor premiers still get a second chance - Melbourne did this year.

The only diff now is that the final four is a knockout comp, sort of a finals series in a finals series if you like. I see no problem with that.

 

[SOULS 04]

yep i hate it but Gallop seems to love it. I would much rather go with the afl system but im curious how many backers the current nrl semis system has. so which would you prefer?