The annual finals system debate thread

[AlwaysGreen]

Shitty argument, seeing as that is true for every single other finals system known to man as well. So then we have to look at what happens when you lose, and whether we are giving enough advantage to the final finishing positions.

Personally, I think 8 teams in the finals is too much given that those finishing 7th/8th are often scraping a 50/50 record. But I could live with that in the AFL system, where there is a clear advantage given to the TOp 4, thus rewarding season-long consistency. It also provides matches between teams of (presumably) similar ability in that first week, and every single game has a clear outcome at the time it finishes. I never understood the argument that the McIntyre system is good because it keeps the best teams apart till the final. Screw that - I want the good sides playing each other as often as possible, finals or not.

I mean:

Storm vs Tigers
Broncos vs Sea Eagles
Dragons vs Knights
Warriors vs Nth Queensland

is a much better slate of games to kick of the finals.

We'll change it just for you.

 

[transmogrifier]

We'll change it just for you.

Well, if that's what it takes to get it changed, fine by me.

 

[innsaneink]

Such a negative fellow....

Did I talk about the Tigers-Dragons game? I said I didn't watch it. Not sure how else to get that information across on the internet without using the words "I did not watch the Tigers-Dragons game".

I'm a fan of neither team, in fact I hate both of them, so why bother watching if - no matter what the result - I can't even get the satisfaction of seeing one of them knocked out? Dumb system.

I'm a Warriors fan. I'll be watching that game in a minute or two. So hopefully your innate sense of what is allowable in terms of the watching-discussing ratio is satisfied.

Hope it keeps you happy.

 

[transmogrifier]

Such a negative fellow....



Hope it keeps you happy.

But am I allowed to discuss it? Or do I have to wait until fulltime? Do I need to send you a photo of me in front of the TV to give me the special pass to use the internet to discuss league? Wouldn't want to upset your finely tuned sense of what is right and wrong.

 

[innsaneink]

Why would you wanna discuss something you couldnt even be bothered watching>?
Doesnt bother me you seem to have your prioritys all arse up

 

[transmogrifier]

Why would you wanna discuss something you couldnt even be bothered watching>?
Doesnt bother me you seem to have your prioritys all arse up

But I didn't discuss the Tigers-Dragons game. I said I didn't watch it. If that counts as "discussion" for you, well you must be pretty deprived of conversation.

 

[anjado]

There is a minor problem with the second weekend of the McIntyre system. But it is better then the old system.

Grand Finals

99 : 3rd vs 6th
00 : 1st vs 2nd
01 : 1st vs 3rd
02 : 1st vs 4th
03 : 1st vs 2nd
04 : 1st vs 2nd
05 : 4th vs 5th
06 : 1st vs 3rd
07 : 1st vs 2nd
08 : 1st vs 2nd
09 : 4th vs 8th
10 : 1st vs 6th

Grand Final appearances

1st - 9/12
2nd - 5/12
3rd - 3/12
4th - 3/12
5th - 1/12
6th - 2/12
7th - 0/12
8th - 1/12

teams making it to the major semi final.

1st - 11/12
2nd - 9/12
3rd - 9/12
4th - 7/12
5th - 4/12
6th - 5/12
7th - 2/12
8th - 2/12

I think this is proof enough that it is a good enough system, If you finish in the top 3 then you should be guaranteed a grand final qualifying berth at least 75% of the time. If you finish 4th you have a greater than 50% chance of making the Grand Final qualifier. If you finish 5th or below usually one team a year makes the Grand Final qualifier leaving you a chance for some unpredictability and hope.

The system isn't perfect but it is far superior to the old one.

Top 5 was the best system though.

 

[proto]

If all goes to plan in the first week (top 4 all win)

The broncos are actually somewhat disadvantaged by playing the higher up team that lost rather than playing the lower (warriors) again

 

[Noa]

There is a minor problem with the second weekend of the McIntyre system. But it is better then the old system.

Grand Finals

99 : 3rd vs 6th
00 : 1st vs 2nd
01 : 1st vs 3rd
02 : 1st vs 4th
03 : 1st vs 2nd
04 : 1st vs 2nd
05 : 4th vs 5th
06 : 1st vs 3rd
07 : 1st vs 2nd
08 : 1st vs 2nd
09 : 4th vs 8th
10 : 1st vs 6th

Grand Final appearances

1st - 9/12
2nd - 5/12
3rd - 3/12
4th - 3/12
5th - 1/12
6th - 2/12
7th - 0/12
8th - 1/12

teams making it to the major semi final.

1st - 11/12
2nd - 9/12
3rd - 9/12
4th - 7/12
5th - 4/12
6th - 5/12
7th - 2/12
8th - 2/12

I think this is proof enough that it is a good enough system, If you finish in the top 3 then you should be guaranteed a grand final qualifying berth at least 75% of the time. If you finish 4th you have a greater than 50% chance of making the Grand Final qualifier. If you finish 5th or below usually one team a year makes the Grand Final qualifier leaving you a chance for some unpredictability and hope.

The system isn't perfect but it is far superior to the old one.

Top 5 was the best system though.

I think off the top of my head 1st nearly always makes it in the AFL so wouldnt suprise me if the % are very similar. Id rather change it just for the match-ups, especailly in the first week.

 

[anjado]

I think off the top of my head 1st nearly always makes it in the AFL so wouldnt suprise me if the % are very similar. Id rather change it just for the match-ups, especailly in the first week.

the two years the ARL had it 2 teams from outside the top 4 made it to the Grand Final the Bulldogs won it from 6th, Dragons came from 7th in 1996. And in 98 when we had 10 teams and had a similair system the bulldogs made it from 9th.

AFL

Grand Finals

00 - 1st vs 3rd
01 - 1st vs 2nd
02 - 2nd vs 4th
03 - 3rd vs 2nd
04 - 1st vs 2nd
05 - 2nd vs 3rd
06 - 1st vs 4th
07 - 1st vs 2nd
08 - 1st vs 2nd
09 - 2nd vs 4th
10 - 1st vs 3rd

So what this list shows, is that it is nearly impossible to make the Grand Final from outside of the top 4 which is fair enough, But that would take away Parramatta's run in 09 and Roosters last season.

More 1st place teams have made the grand final if you start from 2000 in the McIntyre system than the AFL System. There have been more 1st vs 2nd Grand Finals in the McIntyre system also.

I wont deny that the first week of the finals would be better. But there have been some absolutely cracking games in the first weekend of the finals in the NRL under this system as well.

 

[Hooch]

It's a joke. 3-6 play a dead rubber and swap home grounds on the back of it.

There is no home ground advantage if you're a Sydney club. Let them play at their genuine poxy home ground and protect the home ground adv for weeks 1 and 2 for the end of season 1-4 and it works.

That way 7-8 gone and 5-6 need to work hard for two away wins to get in the top 4.

If we're serious we'd just have a top 4 knockout. If you can't get into the top quarter of the comp you dont deserve a chance at the grand final. People might say they'd lose interest because their team can't make the finals, but I reckon they lose interest anyway unless the team is around that 6-10 mark.

 

[Cumberland Throw]

One advantage of ditching McIntyre would be the ability to play the games at any dates and time

 

[skot]

The broncos are actually somewhat disadvantaged by playing the higher up team that lost rather than playing the lower (warriors) again

proto, I thought that at first but then the only advantages to higher position on the Table is in the first week and home advantage if a team wins for the next week...but next week Broncos play a team 2 positions below it , same as West Tigers. (Depending on today's result of course) but I don't expect Newcastle to get through to week 2.

So I think it's fair..you shouldn't play the same team 2 weeks in a row...and I'm a Bronc's man. Not sure about the Warrioirs next week but they couldn't play any worse than last night and the Beast would have to improve.

 

[Eels Dude]

If the Storm win this arvo will this be the first time all top 4 sides have won since we've been using the McIntyre system?

 

[Alderley Rooster]

and realise now that surely the McIntyre system has to go.

What a pathetic weekend of supposed finals football. Poor games and poor crowds. And the best game of the weekend between the Tigers and the Dragons meant nothing in the end. It is a laugh really that teams play a finals game without knowing what the result means.

I know they want to give team 1 and 2 more reward but surely if they reward half the comp with finals spots then the top 4 could play for a GF qualifier spot.

How good would this weekend have been with Melb v Tigers, Manly v Broncs and the rest fighting for survival. Yet we had a borefest.

Cmon Gallop pull your finger out and give the fans what they want....the end of the McIntyre system.

 

[Flapper]

I'm a fan and I don't want the end of the McIntyre system.

 

[M2D2]

Poor games and poor crowds

Didnt this week break finals records due to the first two games?

 

[Ausguy]

bring back top 5

 

[Charles Bronson]

bring back top 5

agree

 

[jason taylor]

Bring in relegation!