The Aussie Media trying to ruin another career?

[sanjane]

From http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,17731512-23212,00.html


Botha seen in new light
By Peter Lalor
January 5, 2006

SOUTH AFRICA spin debutant Johan Botha has modelled his action on India's Harbhajan Singh.

He is even known to his team-mates as "Harbhajan".

And if there is any symmetry, he may find himself facing similar questions about his doosra from match referee Chris Broad.

Botha tries to bowl a delivery that, like those used by the Indian, and Sri Lanka off-spinner Muttiah Muralitharan, spins away from the right-handed batsman.

Harbhajan was reported in December 2004 and March 2005 under the new ICC throwing laws, while Murali was also reported in March 2004.

Both bowlers were cited by Broad and both had their doosra examined by biomechanists before being allowed to play again.

Spin bowling coach Terry Jenner watched Botha bowl one over yesterday and said he would like to see him "with his sleeves rolled up so we can watch the amount of flex".

A spinner is allowed 15degrees of flex or straightening of the arm.

Jenner, like many cricket experts, believes it is impossible for an off-spinner to bowl a doosra and not incur questions about the legitimacy of his action.



After play yesterday, Australia captain Ricky Ponting said he saw similarities and differences between Harbhajan and Botha. "They've got very different actions, but he (Botha) does get his wrist up over the ball and bowled quite a lot of those (over-spinners) today," Ponting said.

"He started bowling a lot of offies but reverted to bowling more over-spinners and top-spinners more than doosras. They don't really go the other way as much as Harbhajan's or Murali's but they certainly do bounce and go straight on."

Botha bowled seven overs yesterday, capturing the wicket of Michael Hussey with the doosra, caught by wicketkeeper Mark Boucher. Botha finished with figures of 1-26.

Harbhajan's case highlights the problems with the ICC's handling of suspected chuckers. The body found that he did not throw when being analysed but appeared to when playing.

"There is no doubt that the action analysed in the University of Western Australia showed Harbhajan bowling with an action that is in accordance with the regulations," ICC general manager of cricket David Richardson said.

"The analysis of the action used during the Pakistan match identifies some differences including the position of the feet and the speed of the delivery.

"However, Mr Portus (the biomechanist) was unable to reach a definitive conclusion on the action used against Pakistan because of the quality of the footage and the camera angles used.

"On this basis the ICC has advised the BCCI that Harbhajan is able to bowl in international cricket provided his action is consistent with that used in the University of Western Australia laboratory. Should his action deteriorate, it is possible the match referees would again report him and this would raise the prospect of further biomechanical analysis."

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Yet another farce. Had a close look at the guy's action, it's fine. Absolutely no problem.

This guy looks to be perhaps SAF's answer to the spin bowler question, yet now people are asking if he is legitimate?

A similar thing tried to ruin Murali's career, it perhaps has ruined Jermaine Lawson's, now what may happen to Botha's?

It will not surprise me if Chris Broad decides to act upon this piece of shameless journalism and report another offie for bowling a perfectly legitimate delivery. Just like he did with Murali.

Malcolm Conn (and other journos) should shut his (their) trap(s) IMO.

And I'm sure that once Dan Cullen or Nathan Hauritz develop a doosra of their own, they (and Terry Jenner) will.

 

[Rammo]

Sanjane, you're not worth pissing on.

Absolute rubbish, everything you say there.

I disagree 100% with everything, but I can't be stuffed going into specifics.

You're just not worth the trouble.

 

[waltzing Meninga]

Watching him bowl He looks to me as if he chucks the doosra, just like Murali, but if Murali is playing this bloke has nothing to worry about

 

[bluesbreaker]

His action looks a touch suspect in my opinion, but as wM said, if Murali is allowed to "bowl", anyone can.

 

[Twizzle]

Yet another farce. Had a close look at the guy's action, it's fine. Absolutely no problem.

all due respect sanjane, you are not qualifed to make that statement, that is only your opinion, to which you are entitled.

This guy looks to be perhaps SAF's answer to the spin bowler question, yet now people are asking if he is legitimate?

only problem is, he doesn't spin the ball, and by "you people", if you are referring to us, you're wrong, we didn't write that article.

A similar thing tried to ruin Murali's career, it perhaps has ruined Jermaine Lawson's, now what may happen to Botha's?

that "similar thing" was due to the fact that his action was, at the time, illegal which is justified, and it didn't ruin his career btw.

Botha definately flexes his arm, and a few people have commented on it, but to what extent, we cannot tell.

It will not surprise me if Chris Broad decides to act upon this piece of shameless journalism and report another offie for bowling a perfectly legitimate delivery. Just like he did with Murali.

which again, was justified, because his action was illegal at the time.

Malcolm Conn (and other journos) should shut his (their) trap(s) IMO.

how come you can express your opinion, yet you don't like them expressing theirs

And I'm sure that once Dan Cullen or Nathan Hauritz develop a doosra of their own, they (and Terry Jenner) will.

can I borrow your crystal ball when your not using it

 

[Iafeta]

To me, he chucks. It was quite apparent from the behind angle where as the arm comes up its bent quite a bit, and at the point of delivery it straightens. Absolutely fine? No problem? I guess after watching Murali all these years you have to put that into context...

 

[El Diablo]

he chucks imo

 

[waltzing Meninga]

I agree with Jenner, I don't hink it is possible to bowl the doosra without chucking it

 

[Paj8]

it isnt, and botha bends his arm, but with the new laws he is alowed to bend it 15 degrees.

Have any of you tried to bowl offspin beding your arm or "chucking" it like that, it makes it spin so far.

 

[waltzing Meninga]

It does, but its here to stay. I think all developing off spin bowlers should now be tought to bowl with a flexed arm, as this is the only way they are going to get to the top level. I think its a sad state for the game to be in, but the ICC have brought it on with their weak stance on Murali.

 

[salivor]

Yet another farce. Had a close look at the guy's action, it's fine. Absolutely no problem.

Is there something wrong with your eyes boy? Have you seen the slow motion replays that 9 shows? His arm is clearly bent at quite an angle then straightens on delivery in a throwing motion, only the blind would contest otherwise, the only contention is if it is still in the 15% (is that what it is now?) limit.

I suggest you keep your head in the sand as your really, I mean really not going to like the super slow-mo footage that is going to be shown when Murali comes to town for the World Series. At that speed theres no optical illusions and no where to hide.

This guy looks to be perhaps SAF's answer to the spin bowler question, yet now people are asking if he is legitimate?

A similar thing tried to ruin Murali's career, it perhaps has ruined Jermaine Lawson's, now what may happen to Botha's?

It will not surprise me if Chris Broad decides to act upon this piece of shameless journalism and report another offie for bowling a perfectly legitimate delivery. Just like he did with Murali.

Murali is lucky to be a sub-continent cricketer. Botha will be well and truely f**ked as SAF don't have the same weight to throw around such as the threats to the ICC Murali had on his side.

Malcolm Conn (and other journos) should shut his (their) trap(s) IMO.

And I'm sure that once Dan Cullen or Nathan Hauritz develop a doosra of their own, they (and Terry Jenner) will.

Yeah only a Murali supporter would encourage the gagging of the press :roll: . But hey freedom of speech isn't that high on the agenda in the sub-continent now is it?

 

[El Diablo]

freedom of sexual preference isn't on in Sri Lanka

 

[Timbo]

all due respect sanjane, you are not qualifed to make that statement, that is only your opinion, to which you are entitled.



only problem is, he doesn't spin the ball, and by "you people", if you are referring to us, you're wrong, we didn't write that article.


that "similar thing" was due to the fact that his action was, at the time, illegal which is justified, and it didn't ruin his career btw.

Botha definately flexes his arm, and a few people have commented on it, but to what extent, we cannot tell.



which again, was justified, because his action was illegal at the time.



how come you can express your opinion, yet you don't like them expressing theirs



can I borrow your crystal ball when your not using it

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Jobdog]

Sanjane, seriously .......................... go and find something else better to do with your time, u sad individual.

 

[sanjane]

Is there something wrong with your eyes boy? Have you seen the slow motion replays that 9 shows? His arm is clearly bent at quite an angle then straightens on delivery in a throwing motion, only the blind would contest otherwise, the only contention is if it is still in the 15% (is that what it is now?) limit.

I suggest you keep your head in the sand as your really, I mean really not going to like the super slow-mo footage that is going to be shown when Murali comes to town for the World Series. At that speed theres no optical illusions and no where to hide.



Murali is lucky to be a sub-continent cricketer. Botha will be well and truely f**ked as SAF don't have the same weight to throw around such as the threats to the ICC Murali had on his side.



Yeah only a Murali supporter would encourage the gagging of the press :roll: . But hey freedom of speech isn't that high on the agenda in the sub-continent now is it?

* The super slow mo was there when Murali came for the Super Series...absolutely nothing wrong with his action IMO (and those of several previous doubters). And I'm guessing you mean VB series, not World Series.

*And the footage...I LOVED it!

* IF Murali was Australian and there was no Shane Warne, IMO he would never have been called EVER.

* I don't think anyone, especially a journalist should be allowed to say whatever he wants when it clearly questions the integrity of a player, his team and the nation he represents.

* There is no doubt IMO that the doosra is a special delivery and entirely legal (those that I've seen anyway: bowled by Murali, Shoaib Malik, Harbhajan Singh, Botha) and it's just another case of the Australian media not allowing a guy to succeed.

In the VB series, we are going to have the PRIVILEGE of seeing doosras left , right and centre from Botha and Murali, and personally I can't wait for it.

If you and others think that they are throws, well, you're missing out.

 

[El Diablo]

chuckers

 

[Timbo]

Personally when your bigotry came out in addition to your racism your novelty value wore off for me.

Go and find another forum.

 

[sanjane]

Personally when your bigotry came out in addition to your racism your novelty value wore off for me.

Go and find another forum.

OK, sir

 

[salivor]

* The super slow mo was there when Murali came for the Super Series...absolutely nothing wrong with his action IMO (and those of several previous doubters). And I'm guessing you mean VB series, not World Series.

*And the footage...I LOVED it!

My apologies, I must have missed the footage but I can hardly say the Super Series really grabbed my attention. I'm sure you loved the footage but I notice you didn't even answer my question on your thoughts Botha. We have both seen the slow-mo footage, my eyes see an arm that starts clearly bent and at quite an angle and then straightens on delivery i.e. a chuck. What do your eyes see? And an honest answer would be nice.

And yes I mean VB series if you must plug the sponser, formally known as the World Series. But hey I notice you have a tendancy to be pedantic with spelling and the like in arguements. It's just petty and doesn't do you justice, not that your making any friends around here in a hurry anyway.

* IF Murali was Australian and there was no Shane Warne, IMO he would never have been called EVER.

* I don't think anyone, especially a journalist should be allowed to say whatever he wants when it clearly questions the integrity of a player, his team and the nation he represents.

And if it wasn't Hair (and Australian umpire) that called him you wouldn't have a leg to stand on with your thinly veiled racism. The simple facts are that journalists, experts and ex-cricketers around the WORLD have critised Muralis action and the damage his (some would say illigitimate) records are doing to the game. The only reason it has become an Australian issue in your mind is that you need a target to throw all your energy into hating.

A journalist raising the question of a players action is not questioning his integrity, that would be assuming that Botha throws on purpose. Most habits, good or bad are ingrained into a bowler from an early age. Every journalist has the right to raise debate on the subject. In your opinion I would like to know why you would like throw (excuse the pun) the whole issue under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist? There is limit there set at 15% so it is still illegal to throw and until we take away those limits to make it completely legal to throw the ball, dubious actions should always been brought into question and examined otherwise the only integrity being damaged is that of the game of cricket.

* There is no doubt IMO that the doosra is a special delivery and entirely legal (those that I've seen anyway: bowled by Murali, Shoaib Malik, Harbhajan Singh, Botha) and it's just another case of the Australian media not allowing a guy to succeed.

In the VB series, we are going to have the PRIVILEGE of seeing doosras left , right and centre from Botha and Murali, and personally I can't wait for it.

If you and others think that they are throws, well, you're missing out.

The doosra itself is not an illegal delivery, it's only illegal if the arm straightens at more than 15%, thats the problem.

And again I will reiterate, it's not an Australian attack on bowlers that throw, it is a world wide attack. Botha was making his debut in Australia, he hadn't been seen on the world stage before then, do you honestly think that questions would be raised about his actions in another country when the straighting on the arm is there for all to see?

I'd rather rip off my finger nails than say a good word about Australian cricket but attack it when it's warranted. There are serious questions about Muralis actions all over the world and other bowlers like Harbajahn and Botha, your blind hatred just makes you look foolish.

 

[Iafeta]

sanjane, just watched your mate "bowl" the doosra, for a guy who can't bend at the elbow he'd make a fairly good shot-putter. Poor Vettori probably thought he was facing the starting pitcher for the New York Yankees. All said in my opinion of course, with fair reflection of the rules.

Botha's no better, but once the subcontinents golden child gets away with it, how can you stop anyone else who's "bowling" spin? I feel sorry for Shabbir Ahmed, clearly a bowler with a significant elbow birth defect of the highest quality, but he must be scratching his head watching his ceylonese tea drinking mate from across the ditch...