The big NRL divide

[MugaB]

Those business interests are mainly a man in his late 70's what happens when he leaves or passes on ? They have had unprecedented good press and success over the past 20-25 years, they get every advantage handed to them but what happens when they don't get success for a sustained period ? Honestly with the teams they have hadthey should average 25,000 people per game they helped drive out any competition from other clubs too.

I know what they do is successful and how they recruit players they have been doing it since the 90's. But that wouldn't have changed if they merged with another inner city team 20 years ago, they would have more supporters, more juniors and be run the same, by the same token they have been successful every season since 1995 barring one or two seasons yet their crowd's if you take away the anzac day match which inflates their true figure aren't that great for the only team based in the city.

So if one day other clubs get their act together and focus on recruitment they will really become a club which is an albatross around the NRL's neck they would become the weakest club yet the only club playing in the city.

They are basically set up like an expansion team when they shouldn't be I think when things start to go down they will be stuffed.

Anyways im moving away from the point.

The gap is mainly down to coaching, junior recruitment and fitness.

6 premiership chances

Penrith
Canberra
Souths
Roosters
Storm
Eels

2 possible top 6 contenders.

Newcastle (Should make the 8 but injuries will hurt them)
Cronulla (Cronulla could have a really good season if Moylan continues with his current form and Johnson comes back and plays well I genuinely think they are a chance at pushing out one of the top 6 clubs)

Top 8 contenders

Gold Coast (Need one of their halves to fulfill their potential)
Warriors (If they can get some games in New Zealand I think they will do well)
Dragons (They have improved a lot just by playing a fairly simple game)

Should improve as the season goes on.

Tigers (I think the Tigers have improved a lot since dropping Joey Leilua but they need to continue to work on their defence if they can become more competent they will win games because I think they are capable of scoring 20 points per game)

Broncos (It's weird saying this after a 40 point loss but I think they are slowly getting their they need to improve their fitness massively and cut out silly errors)

Complete shithouse but have hope for next season

Bulldogs (Awful and horrendous but have players coming in which will improve them enormously this season is about finding out who get's to play with those guys)

Complete shithouse

Manly (Too much of their cap is tied to under performing players)
North Queensland (Terrible retention of players hopefully they have a few more coming through)

The problem with the bottom three teams is coaching, they are playing a style of football which is too robotic. You watch the top teams play and their is constant movement, the bottom three teams constantly just take hit up's and try to set up for one attacking play per set. It isn't enough It's like players have been so robotic for so long that now the game has been sped up to it's natural speed players have forgotten how to play football.

This is great read, and is the best post ive seen in all year, ive said most of this myself, and as far as the roosters are successful nothing changes, as soon as a few lean years come round, better start looking at a permanent move to Adelaide. Ive wholeheartedly believe that that team would own Adelaide as they are, and since the city is more ALF crazy then a east coast heartland, it needs a successful team to convert the fence sitters.
More chance at game attendance, more catchment area, basically a whole city to draw from, same colors as the previous incarnation, an ready made Rivalry with the Storm that exhibition games there have produced, mirroring rivalries those same two cities have in ALF aswell

 

[Valheru]

Those business interests are mainly a man in his late 70's what happens when he leaves or passes on ? They have had unprecedented good press and success over the past 20-25 years, they get every advantage handed to them but what happens when they don't get success for a sustained period ? Honestly with the teams they have hadthey should average 25,000 people per game they helped drive out any competition from other clubs too.

I know what they do is successful and how they recruit players they have been doing it since the 90's. But that wouldn't have changed if they merged with another inner city team 20 years ago, they would have more supporters, more juniors and be run the same, by the same token they have been successful every season since 1995 barring one or two seasons yet their crowd's if you take away the anzac day match which inflates their true figure aren't that great for the only team based in the city.

So if one day other clubs get their act together and focus on recruitment they will really become a club which is an albatross around the NRL's neck they would become the weakest club yet the only club playing in the city.

They are basically set up like an expansion team when they shouldn't be I think when things start to go down they will be stuffed.

So much wrong here it is hard to know where to start.

Nick is far from the main business interested invested in the club. There was an article a couple years ago outlining this including the property portfolio of the club which is enormous. The club is set up to be financially stable for decades to come and anyone hoping for a decline when Nick kicks the bucket will likely be disappointed.

Unprecedented good press is complete garbage as is "every advantage".

Re: 25,000 average what data are you using for that? We keep hearing that if X club had that success they would average 25,000 but it never happens. Souths is a perfect example.

Our crowds are middle of the road compared to the other 15 clubs and are probably punching above our weight for a club who has no fans. Why does everyone want to not include ANZAC crowds? Are you suggesting fans aren't attending? No one seems to want to do that for the dragons when they host or dogs/souths (good Friday) or eels/tigers (Easter Monday) or storm on ANZAC day (every year).

As for juniors we absolutely maximise the area we have keeping in mind the majority of it was taken off us to help souths out back in the day and this has never been reviewed. We have the same amount of juniors in our top 17 this year as parra does.

We have no real choice but to recruit players at a young age from elsewhere which we just do better than most which is the real reason for the sook about our juniors.

Add to that we have invested heavily in recent years in the central coast region with the CC roosters recently winning both the Laurie Daley and Andrew Johns cups. They are also a strong side in the Matthews cup and also compete in the women's comp.

We also are building a strong presence in the North shore and have affiliates in other locations like the Illawarra.

At the end of the day the roosters have adapted to the professional era better than most and their stability and viability as a club won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[The_Frog]

I think Madge has largely been good for them but his hands are tied because he has to clean up after Ivan

You can only blame the previous coach for so long.

 

[Valheru]

This is great read, and is the best post ive seen in all year, ive said most of this myself, and as far as the roosters are successful nothing changes, as soon as a few lean years come round, better start looking at a permanent move to Adelaide. Ive wholeheartedly believe that that team would own Adelaide as they are, and since the city is more ALF crazy then a east coast heartland, it needs a successful team to convert the fence sitters.
More chance at game attendance, more catchment area, basically a whole city to draw from, same colors as the previous incarnation, an ready made Rivalry with the Storm that exhibition games there have produced, mirroring rivalries those same two cities have in ALF aswell

A great read? Lol

Yeah apart from it being utter BS.

The chooks aren't going anywhere, best get used to it.

 

[The_Frog]

Why does everyone want to not include ANZAC crowds?

Because they are used to compare attendances between all Sydney clubs, and not all Sydney clubs get the opportunity to play at this event before this captive audience.

 

[Valheru]

Because they are used to compare attendances between all Sydney clubs, and not all Sydney clubs get the opportunity to play at this event before this captive audience.

Do fans attend or not?

Other clubs are free to build a tradition as the roosters and dragons did. It took many years for it to get to where it is now.

And the 2nd part of the the question? Why do other clubs not have similar events removed from their figure?

 

[MugaB]

So much wrong here it is hard to know where to start.

Nick is far from the main business interested invested in the club. There was an article a couple years ago outlining this including the property portfolio of the club which is enormous. The club is set up to be financially stable for decades to come and anyone hoping for a decline when Nick kicks the bucket will likely be disappointed.

Unprecedented good press is complete garbage as is "every advantage".

Re: 25,000 average what data are you using for that? We keep hearing that if X club had that success they would average 25,000 but it never happens. Souths is a perfect example.

Our crowds are middle of the road compared to the other 15 clubs and are probably punching above our weight for a club who has no fans. Why does everyone want to not include ANZAC crowds? Are you suggesting fans aren't attending? No one seems to want to do that for the dragons when they host or dogs/souths (good Friday) or eels/tigers (Easter Monday) or storm on ANZAC day (every year).

As for juniors we absolutely maximise the area we have keeping in mind the majority of it was taken off us to help souths out back in the day and this has never been reviewed. We have the same amount of juniors in our top 17 this year as parra does.

We have no real choice but to recruit players at a young age from elsewhere which we just do better than most which is the real reason for the sook about our juniors.

Add to that we have invested heavily in recent years in the central coast region with the CC roosters recently winning both the Laurie Daley and Andrew Johns cups. They are also a strong side in the Matthews cup and also compete in the women's comp.

We also are building a strong presence in the North shore and have affiliates in other locations like the Illawarra.

At the end of the day the roosters have adapted to the professional era better than most and their stability and viability as a club won't be changing anytime soon.

Agreed with all this, but it can also be done on the Moon, not representing only 3-4 suburbs in the eastern suburbs, and the media attention is real, from head over heels foxsports, to channel 9 and gus gould praises, as he can take credit for the early years of those post 95 set up, just as he can for penriths acedemy system.. but the cant do no wrong roosters are definitely in the limelight and never frowned upon.. this helps them get the best recruits, which inturn gets more players line up behind them instead of playing at the other ACTUAL "sydney" clubs.
Its been a farce for a while now, and so manufactured by media, to the point of elite Smugness.
Even this site condemns anyone from posting a picture of a sombrero on a rooster player or logo, as it infers cheating, even if its meant as a joke. Yet we can curse and troll regarding most other issues in the game. No other club gets that kind of favoritism, even with a whole city of QLDs capital city to draw from, Brisbane gets a wooden spoon and the media have a field day, and pages of hate, cursing and trolling towards their board and their coach, and players... but a snide cap joke at the roosters and all of sudden a banning is imminent.
There's no jealousy here about Roosters being successful, the team has become the NRLs Globetrotters, and is great to watch, but the constant rule bending, and favouritism and poaching is getting the the point of hating in them, just like those in brisbane who despise the Bronx.
If they weren't based in sydney, i feel they would flourish as a one team town much like newcastle, as so would the remaining sydney based teams as there isn't a whole left in the footprint in sydney if they did leave, like there was in north sydney

 

[MugaB]

Because they are used to compare attendances between all Sydney clubs, and not all Sydney clubs get the opportunity to play at this event before this captive audience.

A St.george dragons heavy audience

 

[Valheru]

Agreed with all this, but it can also be done on the Moon, not representing only 3-4 suburbs in the eastern suburbs, and the media attention is real, from head over heels foxsports, to channel 9 and gus gould praises, as he can take credit for the early years of those post 95 set up, just as he can for penriths acedemy system.. but the cant do no wrong roosters are definitely in the limelight and never frowned upon.. this helps them get the best recruits, which inturn gets more players line up behind them instead of playing at the other ACTUAL "sydney" clubs.
Its been a farce for a while now, and so manufactured by media, to the point of elite Smugness.
Even this site condemns anyone from posting a picture of a sombrero on a rooster player or logo, as it infers cheating, even if its meant as a joke. Yet we can curse and troll regarding most other issues in the game. No other club gets that kind of favoritism, even with a whole city of QLDs capital city to draw from, Brisbane gets a wooden spoon and the media have a field day, and pages of hate, cursing and trolling towards their board and their coach, and players... but a snide cap joke at the roosters and all of sudden a banning is imminent.
There's no jealousy here about Roosters being successful, the team has become the NRLs Globetrotters, and is great to watch, but the constant rule bending, and favouritism and poaching is getting the the point of hating in them, just like those in brisbane who despise the Bronx.
If they weren't based in sydney, i feel they would flourish as a one team town much like newcastle, as so would the remaining sydney based teams as there isn't a whole left in the footprint in sydney if they did leave, like there was in north sydney

Not sure if you are actually serious here.

The sombrero innuendo is rife and literally features in the comment section on any thread about us on any site.

You are likely not allowed to post a pic of a sombrero on a player or official club logo to protect the site (and yourself) from litigation.

 

[Valheru]

A St.george dragons heavy audience

This is another myth

Some years it has been like that. Most years nowadays it is pretty even and some years have been heavily in our favour (2013, 14 and 19 as examples).

 

[MugaB]

Not sure if you are actually serious here.

The sombrero innuendo is rife and literally features in the comment section on any thread about us on any site.

You are likely not allowed to post a pic of a sombrero on a player or official club logo to protect the site (and yourself) from litigation.

Is a sombrero rude in some way that I've never heard about? Then having a sombrero on any player or logo doesn't state anything other that big hats are wonderful and come in all different shapes and sizes, if there's wasn't a precedent for that specific joke, then to a casual veiwer wouldn't have a fükn clue

 

[MugaB]

This is another myth

Some years it has been like that. Most years nowadays it is pretty even and some years have been heavily in our favour (2013, 14 and 19 as examples).

There's no way to prove this other than counting each home and away jerseys individually and then most dragons or roosters fans might not wear a jersey that day, but one things for sure, when a try is scored you can tell who has a bigger crowd, unless the dragons fans are just overtly exicited about everything, and roosters fans are so smug that the dont need to cheer when a try is scored, as they're so affluent enough to just blow their fingers, and a thumbs up

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

This is another myth

Some years it has been like that. Most years nowadays it is pretty even and some years have been heavily in our favour (2013, 14 and 19 as examples).

Myths encourage so much lazy thinking which is why they’re rarely busted.

 

[MugaB]

Myths encourage so much lazy thinking which is why they’re rarely busted.

Is Jesus counted as a myth? Or are we delving into a touchy subject

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Is Jesus counted as a myth? Or are we delving into a touchy subject

Yeh, religion is for lazy thinkers too.

 

[SBD82]

There's no way to prove this other than counting each home and away jerseys individually and then most dragons or roosters fans might not wear a jersey that day, but one things for sure, when a try is scored you can tell who has a bigger crowd, unless the dragons fans are just overtly exicited about everything, and roosters fans are so smug that the dont need to cheer when a try is scored, as they're so affluent enough to just blow their fingers, and a thumbs up

Does it matter which supporter base dominates the crowd?

The Roosters are an important part of the Anzac Day fixture. We wouldn’t show up in those numbers if we were playing the Panthers.

 

[Alderley Rooster]

Agreed with all this, but it can also be done on the Moon, not representing only 3-4 suburbs in the eastern suburbs, and the media attention is real, from head over heels foxsports, to channel 9 and gus gould praises, as he can take credit for the early years of those post 95 set up, just as he can for penriths acedemy system.. but the cant do no wrong roosters are definitely in the limelight and never frowned upon.. this helps them get the best recruits, which inturn gets more players line up behind them instead of playing at the other ACTUAL "sydney" clubs.
Its been a farce for a while now, and so manufactured by media, to the point of elite Smugness.
Even this site condemns anyone from posting a picture of a sombrero on a rooster player or logo, as it infers cheating, even if its meant as a joke. Yet we can curse and troll regarding most other issues in the game. No other club gets that kind of favoritism, even with a whole city of QLDs capital city to draw from, Brisbane gets a wooden spoon and the media have a field day, and pages of hate, cursing and trolling towards their board and their coach, and players... but a snide cap joke at the roosters and all of sudden a banning is imminent.
There's no jealousy here about Roosters being successful, the team has become the NRLs Globetrotters, and is great to watch, but the constant rule bending, and favouritism and poaching is getting the the point of hating in them, just like those in brisbane who despise the Bronx.
If they weren't based in sydney, i feel they would flourish as a one team town much like newcastle, as so would the remaining sydney based teams as there isn't a whole left in the footprint in sydney if they did leave, like there was in north sydney

My head hurts from reading this....not only because it is littered with grammatical errors and blatant disregard for simple sentence structure but because it simply doesnt make any sense.

You cannot punish a club because they operate well. Thats the whole reason for the sombrero jokes in the first place.....others cant handle the fact the Roosters manage their club well so they must be cheating.

As for junior development well that is a debate that has been going on for years and until the Roosters get all of their original territory back will continue to be argued. the fact Coogee, Maroubra etc are considered South Sydney is laughable....I am sure people in those areas when they sell their house refer to it as the Eastern Suburbs. Regardless junior development isn't about where the players live but what resources, effort etc goes into developing them. And thats where the Roosters lead the way probably along with the Storm. They give young players opportunities and develop them incredibly well. Have a look at the Roosters team lists from the past 10 years and see how many players the Roosters developed, they probably rank in the top 3 clubs.

As for favours and rule bending etc that one did make me laugh. Would love to see an example??

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

With all the favouritism the Roosters get, imagine what punishment Pearce’s misdemeanours would’ve copped if he played elsewhere. Probably the death penalty or be forced to play for Canterbury.

 

[anjado]

So much wrong here it is hard to know where to start.

Nick is far from the main business interested invested in the club. There was an article a couple years ago outlining this including the property portfolio of the club which is enormous. The club is set up to be financially stable for decades to come and anyone hoping for a decline when Nick kicks the bucket will likely be disappointed.

Unprecedented good press is complete garbage as is "every advantage".

Re: 25,000 average what data are you using for that? We keep hearing that if X club had that success they would average 25,000 but it never happens. Souths is a perfect example.

Our crowds are middle of the road compared to the other 15 clubs and are probably punching above our weight for a club who has no fans. Why does everyone want to not include ANZAC crowds? Are you suggesting fans aren't attending? No one seems to want to do that for the dragons when they host or dogs/souths (good Friday) or eels/tigers (Easter Monday) or storm on ANZAC day (every year).

As for juniors we absolutely maximise the area we have keeping in mind the majority of it was taken off us to help souths out back in the day and this has never been reviewed. We have the same amount of juniors in our top 17 this year as parra does.

We have no real choice but to recruit players at a young age from elsewhere which we just do better than most which is the real reason for the sook about our juniors.

Add to that we have invested heavily in recent years in the central coast region with the CC roosters recently winning both the Laurie Daley and Andrew Johns cups. They are also a strong side in the Matthews cup and also compete in the women's comp.

We also are building a strong presence in the North shore and have affiliates in other locations like the Illawarra.

At the end of the day the roosters have adapted to the professional era better than most and their stability and viability as a club won't be changing anytime soon.

If you watch NRL 360 it's basically a Roosters fan channel, every day they just keep saying how amazing they are and awesome etc, I've literally never heard them say a bad word about anyone or anything to do with the club it's nothing but praise. All organizations they are basically built as sydney's team the only criticism you get is about the salary sombrero which is said in a joking fashion even though everyone clearly knows it's true and Phil Gould admitted to it in 2010.

The entire rationalization period to reduce teams in the Sydney competition may as well have been written by Nick Politis. I guess you can call that a bit of a leg up if it had anything to do with future planning the Roosters would have been the first team to go, crowds counted from 1996 mysteriously at the point where the Roosters got two huge crowds on the back of a mcdonalds promotion. Junior development basically wasn't counted at all and recent on field performances count mysteriously when the Roosters started buying every player on the market, just ignore them only winning two premierships in the previous 53 years and the obvious fudging of crowd figures.

Anzac day test is cancelled, the Roosters get anzac day for about a decade on their own.

You proved my point it's good the Roosters are doing well on the central coast but you had to help kill someone off to get there. It's similar to the buying junior clubs in Penrith plan you had in the late 90's. If the Bears had been at the Central Coast and you had a bigger junior base it would open up more areas for the game to grow, now you are moving into St George Illawarra's territory.

I know you are going nowhere every other club has been cannibalised to make sure that can't happen. The crowds are a problem obviously not in these times, but you should be the Broncos of Sydney but you will never be this because you will never have this sustained period of success forever and one day it will go away. So being in the middle of the pack hurts the league, Souths moving to homebush hurts the league too.

I just wanted to say I agree with you I think you do, do a great job with junior development I just wish you merged with someone else so you could have had a larger pool of players to choose from. But you will always have to solely rely on other areas to produce 90% of your players and that should have been taken into account years ago. That is fine for a club like Melbourne though it should be changing by now or an expansion team but to me the Roosters feel like an expansion team rather than a foundation club.

I also think the Roosters have done very well in many aspects of running their club I just feel it's been bad for the game that they didn't merge and made themselves stronger with more of a fan and junior base, I think nearly every post super league problem the game has faced would have been solved by the Roosters being forced to merge.

Basically if every other club ever reach the same level as Melbourne and the Roosters when it comes to player identification and professionalism it would do them a lot of harm.

 

[Alderley Rooster]

If you watch NRL 360 it's basically a Roosters fan channel, every day they just keep saying how amazing they are and awesome etc, I've literally never heard them say a bad word about anyone or anything to do with the club it's nothing but praise. All organizations they are basically built as sydney's team the only criticism you get is about the salary sombrero which is said in a joking fashion even though everyone clearly knows it's true and Phil Gould admitted to it in 2010.

The entire rationalization period to reduce teams in the Sydney competition may as well have been written by Nick Politis. I guess you can call that a bit of a leg up if it had anything to do with future planning the Roosters would have been the first team to go, crowds counted from 1996 mysteriously at the point where the Roosters got two huge crowds on the back of a mcdonalds promotion. Junior development basically wasn't counted at all and recent on field performances count mysteriously when the Roosters started buying every player on the market, just ignore them only winning two premierships in the previous 53 years and the obvious fudging of crowd figures.

Anzac day test is cancelled, the Roosters get anzac day for about a decade on their own.

You proved my point it's good the Roosters are doing well on the central coast but you had to help kill someone off to get there. It's similar to the buying junior clubs in Penrith plan you had in the late 90's. If the Bears had been at the Central Coast and you had a bigger junior base it would open up more areas for the game to grow, now you are moving into St George Illawarra's territory.

I know you are going nowhere every other club has been cannibalised to make sure that can't happen. The crowds are a problem obviously not in these times, but you should be the Broncos of Sydney but you will never be this because you will never have this sustained period of success forever and one day it will go away. So being in the middle of the pack hurts the league, Souths moving to homebush hurts the league too.

I just wanted to say I agree with you I think you do, do a great job with junior development I just wish you merged with someone else so you could have had a larger pool of players to choose from. But you will always have to solely rely on other areas to produce 90% of your players and that should have been taken into account years ago. That is fine for a club like Melbourne though it should be changing by now or an expansion team but to me the Roosters feel like an expansion team rather than a foundation club.

I also think the Roosters have done very well in many aspects of running their club I just feel it's been bad for the game that they didn't merge and made themselves stronger with more of a fan and junior base, I think nearly every post super league problem the game has faced would have been solved by the Roosters being forced to merge.

Basically if every other club ever reach the same level as Melbourne and the Roosters when it comes to player identification and professionalism it would do them a lot of harm.

Nice long piece of writing just a shame none of it is based on any factual proven information....just your thoughts