The big NRL divide

[Perth Red]

The salary cap disadvantages the weaker clubs more than the stronger club. The weaker clubs have to pay massive overs to attract their players so their cap has less buying power than the better sides. The weaker clubs also are a far less attractive proposition for third party deals.
So the only answer is to go down Penriths path and build from the bottom up with a very strong junior platform. Trouble there a strong club comes in and grabs your talent once they are ripe for the picking, like Tedesco.
Not sure what the answer is, you can’t blame players wanting to play for strong clubs, but we can’t keep going the way we are because we will end up with a five team comp. In a perfect world you need every team with a realistic chance to play finals football at the start of the year. That is far from the case now.

It does create a bit of a lopsided scenario but Tbf that’s still on the crap run clubs to get their sht together. From what players say the way some clubs look after players and their families is light years away from some others. Things like training and rehab facilities, playing in a quality stadium in front of big crowds and of course playing for a better club to improve chances of rep honours also play their factors. Throw in wanting to stay on your home city or the excitement of moving to another one as well. Then add in post playing career opportunities some clubs offer the older players. There are many factors at play. End of day no one wants to lose every week so it’s always going to be harder for clubs to break the spiral. Maybe we need a draft lol!

 

[Perth Red]

I also think fans are being sold a pup. Nrl sells this dream that every club is in with a gf chance. Reality is most arent. Maybe fans resetting g their expectations and not abandoning their club when they aren’t looking like top eight material is also needed. My life long club is one of the weakest in SL and for me any year we dont get relegated is a good season!

 

[Pete Cash]

A fair few people missing the point here IMO.

The issue isn't that there are bad teams, that has always been the case. Swings and roundabouts and all that.

The issue is that the current rules result in more floggings and drastically reduce the chances of an upset.

The business of sport is about selling hope and after 4 rounds of a 25 round competition we have 25% of the teams getting flogged every week with no realistic chance of getting anywhere near the finals. That will lead to poor crowds, lower TV ratings and overall less revenue for the game. It just isn't good business and I can't imagine the NRL won't address this fairly soon.

Compare all that to the big bad AFL who had this exact same issue. They modified their rules and the result has been a lot of close games, the odd shock result, only the one team that is uncompetitive and business is booming.

I dont care if people like the current rules but I do feel like the media is very interested in not letting any criticism be heard.

The injury issue firstly. It seems to me the current interpretation of the game is increasing fatigue and players risk of injury. Thats probably a discussion for another thread.

However, lets look at the gap between the good sides and the bad sides. LIke no shit there will always be bad sides. Its impossible to have parity between the teams but as a fan of a perennially mediocre team there have been years when the raiders were the sort of scrapy side that could sometimes beat a top 8 side.

Right now it seems to me that the top sides can often beat the bottom sides on autopilot by just letting possession mount up.

How many upsets have there been this year ? I would say the Warriors beating the Raiders was an upset but I also point to that being caused at least in part by injuries. The Dragons beating the Knights ? Another game swung by injuries

I liked a good balance between attack and defence in rugby league and I feel like the balance isn't right at the moment. I support an apparently decent side too so its not just sour grapes either. I mean all fans have gone through years where the team is crappy. Even the roosters have had bad years. Maybe not Storm supporters besides the year they were punished for cap cheating but all other fans. I cannot remember it being like this.

 

[Pete Cash]

Take the game I am watching right now.

Parra are playing like a busted arse and Wests are just hanging in with the potential of snatching it at the end. I just feel in a better comp Wests would have done it pretty easily here based on the quality of Parras play.

 

[Sphagnum]

The speed of the game and lack of stoppages will take its toll on every team at some point. Whoever has the most hands on deck when the whips are cracking will probably pinch it.

could be some method in the madness of the clubs whose players are just phoning it in every week at the moment.

 

[Mr Spock!]

Take the game I am watching right now.

Parra are playing like a busted arse and Wests are just hanging in with the potential of snatching it at the end. I just feel in a better comp Wests would have done it pretty easily here based on the quality of Parras play.

The same thing was said years ago when we were getting a whole heap of huge scorelines due to unlimited interchange.

 

[Zoe Palmer]

I’m loving the footy this season.
The good teams have
1; the good coaches who have been smart enough to adjust using their players talents
2; obviously the players in the right positions.

Today’s game highlighted that

 

[AnonymousLurker]

I dont care if people like the current rules but I do feel like the media is very interested in not letting any criticism be heard.

The injury issue firstly. It seems to me the current interpretation of the game is increasing fatigue and players risk of injury. Thats probably a discussion for another thread.

However, lets look at the gap between the good sides and the bad sides. LIke no shit there will always be bad sides. Its impossible to have parity between the teams but as a fan of a perennially mediocre team there have been years when the raiders were the sort of scrapy side that could sometimes beat a top 8 side.

Right now it seems to me that the top sides can often beat the bottom sides on autopilot by just letting possession mount up.

How many upsets have there been this year ? I would say the Warriors beating the Raiders was an upset but I also point to that being caused at least in part by injuries. The Dragons beating the Knights ? Another game swung by injuries

I liked a good balance between attack and defence in rugby league and I feel like the balance isn't right at the moment. I support an apparently decent side too so its not just sour grapes either. I mean all fans have gone through years where the team is crappy. Even the roosters have had bad years. Maybe not Storm supporters besides the year they were punished for cap cheating but all other fans. I cannot remember it being like this.

So you think we should go back to games in which we had penalty after penalty , watching every team play the same old block play
And my favourite
Dare the referee to give penalties on the line to one either reset defence or two have the other side do a penalty so they can’t score

I put the blame on the coaches for constantly getting their teams to break the rules (and when enforced with sin bins - bitch and moan along with their media mates ) and inability to adjust

Dragons are a great example in the difference of having a shit coach like Mary and and a half decent coach in griffin
Look at sharks , Morris has then competing even tho they have had massive injuries past couple of years and out of whack salary cap

 

[Pete Cash]

So you think we should go back to games in which we had penalty after penalty , watching every team play the same old block play
And my favourite
Dare the referee to give penalties on the line to one either reset defence or two have the other side do a penalty so they can’t score

I put the blame on the coaches for constantly getting their teams to break the rules (and when enforced with sin bins - bitch and moan along with their media mates ) and inability to adjust

Dragons are a great example in the difference of having a shit coach like Mary and and a half decent coach in griffin
Look at sharks , Morris has then competing even tho they have had massive injuries past couple of years and out of whack salary cap

I think the game should look like rugby league. The 10m is atrocious right now and if the ref wanted to he could ping a set of 6 all the time for offside

The NRL should have cracked down on the wrestle and started sin binning for deliberate penalties. These would have been more effective solutions than swinging possession to such a large degree.

There are also shit tons of block plays. I find a lot of the good teams are playing on autopilot tbh. The weight of possession becomes too much and the weaker team just cracks.

What's the point for a neutral to watch the Panthers v manly game. I think the Panthers can be really entertaining. The game of the year so far was Panthers v storm but they barely got out of 2nd gear against manly and still demolished them. Like why is this good ?

 

[mave]

If you want rugby league, head down to your local A Grade game.

Cheap beer, the pies are as warm as you get on the hill at Brookie, but half the price, and RL as we used to know it.

Up on the coast we have the ladies tag as first match on the program.
That's the closest to NRL we see live anymore.

 

[franklin2323]

Take the game I am watching right now.

Parra are playing like a busted arse and Wests are just hanging in with the potential of snatching it at the end. I just feel in a better comp Wests would have done it pretty easily here based on the quality of Parras play.

Possession was 53-47 to WT though. Isn't that the opposite of what the new rules are meant to cause?

 

[franklin2323]

I think the game should look like rugby league. The 10m is atrocious right now and if the ref wanted to he could ping a set of 6 all the time for offside

The NRL should have cracked down on the wrestle and started sin binning for deliberate penalties. These would have been more effective solutions than swinging possession to such a large degree.

There are also shit tons of block plays. I find a lot of the good teams are playing on autopilot tbh. The weight of possession becomes too much and the weaker team just cracks.

What's the point for a neutral to watch the Panthers v manly game. I think the Panthers can be really entertaining. The game of the year so far was Panthers v storm but they barely got out of 2nd gear against manly and still demolished them. Like why is this good ?

You aren't going to get 200 odd good games a year. Look at this week only Storm v Dogs looks like being terrible.

This round was a one off

 

[shear_joy9]

people will find a reason to piss and moan no matter what the results are. Every game could be decided by 1 point and people will say the comp is shit.

If you aren't enjoying the current season go and watch the rugby or afl. If you manage not to stick a knife in your eye after watching that garbage you'll be back.

 

[Perth Red]

After all the talk of blowouts thought I’d look at how the seasons compared for opening rounds. This year is slightly ahead for “blow out” games


Avg points difference per game (games won by 12 points or more)
Rd 1
2020 10.5 (3)
2021 17.8 (6)

Rd2
2020 11.3 (3)
2021 13.1 (4)

Rd 3
2020 18.2 (7)
2021 14.8 (4)

Rd4
2020 19.1 (5)
2021 26.1 (7)

 

[Bazal]

I dont care if people like the current rules but I do feel like the media is very interested in not letting any criticism be heard.

The injury issue firstly. It seems to me the current interpretation of the game is increasing fatigue and players risk of injury. Thats probably a discussion for another thread.

However, lets look at the gap between the good sides and the bad sides. LIke no shit there will always be bad sides. Its impossible to have parity between the teams but as a fan of a perennially mediocre team there have been years when the raiders were the sort of scrapy side that could sometimes beat a top 8 side.

Right now it seems to me that the top sides can often beat the bottom sides on autopilot by just letting possession mount up.

How many upsets have there been this year ? I would say the Warriors beating the Raiders was an upset but I also point to that being caused at least in part by injuries. The Dragons beating the Knights ? Another game swung by injuries

I liked a good balance between attack and defence in rugby league and I feel like the balance isn't right at the moment. I support an apparently decent side too so its not just sour grapes either. I mean all fans have gone through years where the team is crappy. Even the roosters have had bad years. Maybe not Storm supporters besides the year they were punished for cap cheating but all other fans. I cannot remember it being like this.

I think the main issue (and it's probs been mentioned but I ain't reading the whole thread) is that I don't reckon we've ever had so many basket case clubs at the same time?

Like, look at some of the clubs down the lower end, their squad and their idea of cap management? There are at least four absolutely park level squads...

We can talk about quality of players available but I guarantee you could pick four or five blokes from even the Eels or Raiders back ups who would walk into the Dogs or Manly at the moment. Even the Tigers still have lumps like Mbye on more dosh than Gutho.

So I think that the rules are exacerbating a situation where we have more poorly managed sides than we ever have before, and the quality gulf between the good and bad sides is as much to do with their management as anything?

I mean the Cowboys are a prime example, and the Dogs seem to be or have been in the same situation Parra was when we won all our spoons where the board was more about people wanting the gig for their own ends?

I don't think we should throw out rile changes just cos some squads are too shit to compete.

 

[Pete Cash]

You aren't going to get 200 odd good games a year. Look at this week only Storm v Dogs looks like being terrible.

This round was a one off

I'd like to see good teams still have to play well to put a cricket score on bad teams. I felt we had a good balance a few years ago when sides had to be switched on to beat a bottom side

In fact it was a LU talking point that we had a more balanced game than AFL.

I'm not saying Penrith played badly against manly but they didn't do much to smash them either. Melbourne v Broncos is another game where Melbourne barely got out of bed for and still put a score on. In previous years the Broncos could have ambushed the storm with the attitude they showed up with.

Even if we look at last years final series I think it was overall kind of crappy. How many games were absolute barnstormers. Well the Raiders v Roosters was a very good game but the only other game I really remember is the Panthers v Roosters and the only reason that got close was because your f**kwit of a 5/8th decided to wind up Angus Crichton with about 10 to go and he played like an absolute demon from that point on. The Grand Final was a pretty low quality game that to the panthers credit they hung in there and almost pulled off a comeback but it was pretty diabolical outside of that.

 

[franklin2323]

I'd like to see good teams still have to play well to put a cricket score on bad teams. I felt we had a good balance a few years ago when sides had to be switched on to beat a bottom side

In fact it was a LU talking point that we had a more balanced game than AFL.

I'm not saying Penrith played badly against manly but they didn't do much to smash them either. Melbourne v Broncos is another game where Melbourne barely got out of bed for and still put a score on. In previous years the Broncos could have ambushed the storm with the attitude they showed up with.

Even if we look at last years final series I think it was overall kind of crappy. How many games were absolute barnstormers. Well the Raiders v Roosters was a very good game but the only other game I really remember is the Panthers v Roosters and the only reason that got close was because your f**kwit of a 5/8th decided to wind up Angus Crichton with about 10 to go and he played like an absolute demon from that point on. The Grand Final was a pretty low quality game that to the panthers credit they hung in there and almost pulled off a comeback but it was pretty diabolical outside of that.

So the question becomes how do you improve it?

Lets take a couple of games from the weekend.

Canberra v GC was close game. Would of been closer if GC scored those 3 tries they bombed. Rules or no rules teams will still lose in those situations

Warriors v Roosters. Warriors had more possession. seemed to drop it when attacking the line. A couple of poor one on one tackles blew that score out.

Dogs v Souths. Dogs turned up couldn't construct a try but those 2 bad misses on Cook either side or halftime blew the score out.

The Broncos game you mentioned. Papenhuyzen scoring those 4 tries in 10 mins was the difference.

In both those games class players did what class players do. How do you stop that is the question

 

[Pete Cash]

I think the main issue (and it's probs been mentioned but I ain't reading the whole thread) is that I don't reckon we've ever had so many basket case clubs at the same time?

Like, look at some of the clubs down the lower end, their squad and their idea of cap management? There are at least four absolutely park level squads...

We can talk about quality of players available but I guarantee you could pick four or five blokes from even the Eels or Raiders back ups who would walk into the Dogs or Manly at the moment. Even the Tigers still have lumps like Mbye on more dosh than Gutho.

So I think that the rules are exacerbating a situation where we have more poorly managed sides than we ever have before, and the quality gulf between the good and bad sides is as much to do with their management as anything?

I mean the Cowboys are a prime example, and the Dogs seem to be or have been in the same situation Parra was when we won all our spoons where the board was more about people wanting the gig for their own ends?

I don't think we should throw out rile changes just cos some squads are too shit to compete.

This is true and squad management does play a role but maybe its me feeling like "but there for the grace of god go I" here but I think if the rules suddenly got changed in 2017 like they got changed in 2020 it would be the Raiders getting demolished while fans tutted Sticky being like "should have got your squad right". Sticky did get the squad wrong for 2017 and 2018 and deserved criticism but the rules suddenly changing to the current interpretation suddenly would have taken us from the Faiders to the to getting blown off the park shit merkins. That is such a huge difference in how we can recruit going forward. Maybe John Bateman is less keen to come to the side that is getting blown the f**k out every week ?

But yes our reserve forwards like Guler and the two Corys would walk into a bunch of NRL sides. We must be paying Ryan Sutton significantly less than the Bulldogs are paying Luke Thompson and we are getting vastly better output from him. We have guys like Hudson Young who have had their issues with discipline but would be on f**k all for what we get out of him. Stick still doesn't know how to play Tom Starling in a sensible manner but he would be starting at least a couple of clubs.

That said I am sure some teams have some reserve wingers I would take lol

EDIT

That said like I discussed with the frog the other day there is value on taking a punt on a player. We signed Tapine in a pretty risky move that looked like it wasn't going to come off but now we are getting great value from him. Struggling clubs do need to take risks. Signing Tapine with hindsight is one of sticks best moves but there were times when he was shoulder charging a player standing in touch and copping suspensions for it I thought wtf

 

[franklin2323]

I think the main issue (and it's probs been mentioned but I ain't reading the whole thread) is that I don't reckon we've ever had so many basket case clubs at the same time?

Like, look at some of the clubs down the lower end, their squad and their idea of cap management? There are at least four absolutely park level squads...

We can talk about quality of players available but I guarantee you could pick four or five blokes from even the Eels or Raiders back ups who would walk into the Dogs or Manly at the moment. Even the Tigers still have lumps like Mbye on more dosh than Gutho.

So I think that the rules are exacerbating a situation where we have more poorly managed sides than we ever have before, and the quality gulf between the good and bad sides is as much to do with their management as anything?

I mean the Cowboys are a prime example, and the Dogs seem to be or have been in the same situation Parra was when we won all our spoons where the board was more about people wanting the gig for their own ends?

I don't think we should throw out rile changes just cos some squads are too shit to compete.

No one actually says how it can be fixed just complain.

Poor recruitment seems to be the issue for most

 

[Pete Cash]

No one actually says how it can be fixed just complain.

Poor recruitment seems to be the issue for most

But we expect there to be bad teams. There are bad teams every year. Its the nature of the beast and yes "squad management" is normally the cause. An aging star player is on too much money, a team ends up with too much dead cap money through trying to rebuild too quickly, a team over spends on bringing a player in and he under performs. There are millions of reasons why a team ends up crappy.

But, its not very compelling viewing to watch teams just get the shit beat out of them. Even watching Brisbane get wrecked is losing its appeal