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The big NRL divide

Messages
3,224
People blaming the rules for the blowouts are forgetting that this isn't the first season with the rule changes. They came into effect in 2020 and we didn't see this trend playing out. Yes Brisbane were getting smashed routinely, but the rest of the bottom 4 regularly put up a fight against better teams. Eg, Souths getting beaten by the Dogs, Manly beating the Eels and both they and the Cows went close against top 8 sides a few times as well. Brisbane aside, the F/A of the bottom 4 was comparable to previous years as well. If the rules were the problem they would have been a problem last year too.

The issue is that the bottom 4 have gotten worse (or at least started the season worse). The most obvious candidate is the lack of 2nd tier footy last year. It makes sense (intuitively at least) that the bottom quartile of the competition would be weaker than usual when all rungs below it had basically no footy the year before. I think the gap will close somewhat in the coming months.
they've taken the rules further tho

6 again for 10m breaches
no scrum unless the ball is kicked into touch

adding more time for the ball in play & less stoppages then 2020
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,766
Bunch of factors in play at the moment

1 - Covid having the biggest impact at the moment with so many players not playing for 12 months

2 - Players 18 to 36 and U21 players spread across 3 teams in Qld

3 - bottom teams relying on RG players but in 2021 being impacted by 1 & 2

4 - 10m 6 again rule change being exploited by better teams
 

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,488
Bunch of factors in play at the moment

1 - Covid having the biggest impact at the moment with so many players not playing for 12 months

2 - Players 18 to 36 and U21 players spread across 3 teams in Qld

3 - bottom teams relying on RG players but in 2021 being impacted by 1 & 2

4 - 10m 6 again rule change being exploited by better teams
In addition the top teams fringe players look ready to go even more than seasoned first graders in lower teams, this has got highlight a big factor. Players like Sebastian Kris, Matt Burton, Ray Stone, many of the Roosters fringe players etc.
 

Mr Spock!

Referee
Messages
22,502
In addition the top teams fringe players look ready to go even more than seasoned first graders in lower teams, this has got highlight a big factor. Players like Sebastian Kris, Matt Burton, Ray Stone, many of the Roosters fringe players etc.
That affected all teams last year.

The demise of the Broncos, Bulldogs and Cowboys had already begun before covid.

Manly were always a one man team and that bloke is forever injured.
 

Mr Spock!

Referee
Messages
22,502
Bunch of factors in play at the moment

1 - Covid having the biggest impact at the moment with so many players not playing for 12 months

2 - Players 18 to 36 and U21 players spread across 3 teams in Qld

3 - bottom teams relying on RG players but in 2021 being impacted by 1 & 2

4 - 10m 6 again rule change being exploited by better teams
Nope, those teams were spiralling downwards before covid 19.

Add the Tigers and Bulldogs to that as well. And the one injured man team, Manly.

And the Titans seem to have handled it well.
 

Mr Spock!

Referee
Messages
22,502
Are we all forgetting that Brisbane actually won their first two games of 2020 before covid hit?
Then they only won one more game.

They were smashed with the same team after covid.

There were no reserve grade games for sydney either.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,391
So I see it as two separate discussions.

There's the general state of the competition and then there's the divide.

The new rules are designed to bring fatigue back into the game by minimising stoppages and dead time. This was seen as a way to 'improve' the game and clean it up but I don't think it's had that effect. If anything it's encouraged teams to break the rules more readily, especially on off-sides, where teams are shooting up out of the line well before the ball has cleared the ruck. We're seeing a lot of cynical football as a result with the game encouraging spoiling tactics.

What we're also seeing is how the rules have affected momentum. There's no real ebb and flow to the game anymore, generally either one team dominates or it's a tale of two halves where one team starts well only to have a barrage of tries put on them.

It's not really engaging football, especially when teams put their foot off the accelerator well before full-time and still win easily. Fatigue actually has a negative effect because the dominant team can't be bothered playing the full 80 knowing they have the game wrapped up with 30 to go. However the bottom teams are so mentally shot by that point they can't mount a fight-back.

That was largely the case last season and it's carried on through to here. I think last season was an anamoly with how restrictive Covid was and it really threw up some crazy results. If you were on top than you were virtually unstoppable because there was hardly anything to break up your momentum and conversley if you were struggling things would get ugly.

I think that will begin to ease as the competition goes on and we start to see teams get a better feel for the meta of the game. I think right now we're still seeing a lot of experimentation with different moulds of players and teams will continue to copy from the top teams.

With the divide I think it's largely due to the hangover of Covid. There's always going to be struggling teams, but typically you see a lot more movement in the player market and there's usually a dozen blue chip prospects clubs call in that give them that edge they need. With no reserve grade, the struggling teams are finding it a lot more difficult to bounce back which is really unfair on a lot of the new coaches.

I'm not sure what the record is, but the introduction of five new coaches has to be a record. They're trying to implement changes with players that don't fit their system and they don't have the breathing room they'd like to effect those changes. I do think in some cases they'll get better as the season goes on but it's a much bigger ask than in years previous.

I don't necessarily think it's the rules themselves, just the way that they were brought in that has seen the game suffer.
You could say the same thing about the wrestle and having 2 refs, and unlimited interchange, all things used and abused and useless, none of those things improved the game, now eradicated.
I'd love to see the rules tweaked to help the game improve or at least highlight the glaring problems with it, like the wrestle
 

Mr Spock!

Referee
Messages
22,502
You could say the same thing about the wrestle and having 2 refs, and unlimited interchange, all things used and abused and useless, none of those things improved the game, now eradicated.
I'd love to see the rules tweaked to help the game improve or at least highlight the glaring problems with it, like the wrestle
What's the point of the wrestle?

To slow the play down. Put the ball runner on his back to give the defensive line time. In the past, you quickly got up to get in your defensive line.

Why did it evolve?

The extension of the 5m rule to 10m and unlimited then limited interchange.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,982
People blaming the rules for the blowouts are forgetting that this isn't the first season with the rule changes. They came into effect in 2020 and we didn't see this trend playing out.

we did if you look at the stats I posted earlier. The avg points difference has grown in last two seasons for 3 of the 4 rounds and the number of close games (games won by 6 points or less) has reduced dramatically from 33% in 2016 to around 15% this year (though that trend seems to have started in 2019)
 

some11

Referee
Messages
23,676
I'm starting to get a bit over this. The 'Broncos are complaining' bullshit narrative that is continuing to get brought up. If you actually look at the Broncos forum its more complaining about the decisions that have been made by management and players who have underperformed rather then the rules.
Please.

There's more 'NSWRL bias!!" posts than ever there now. I've never seen so much complaining about that and I've been on there for 10+ years.

A lot of broncos fans just refuse to accept the glory days are gone and think winning one comp in the last 20 years is because of decisions made down south.
 

some11

Referee
Messages
23,676
I would rather watch talented teams play good, free flowing footy, than watch terrible teams shithouse results because the rules allow them too. I’d rather watch a game with 10 tries scored that is open and end to end, decided by the skills on display than a game with 4 tries decided by who can slow the ruck down more efficiently and/or underhandedly.
This.

Adapt or die. Clubs that foster a losing culture deserve everything that is happening to them.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,118
You could say the same thing about the wrestle and having 2 refs, and unlimited interchange, all things used and abused and useless, none of those things improved the game, now eradicated.
I'd love to see the rules tweaked to help the game improve or at least highlight the glaring problems with it, like the wrestle

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't unlimited interchanges brought in over the 1997/98 off-season? At least in that case teams were given time to prepare during a very tumultuous time for the code. To the NRL's credit they recognised those rules weren't to the benefit of the code in the long term and they fixed them.

As it stands the NRL needs to ride this out and see how teams adjust. If it continues along this path then they'd have to be concerned about the quality of the product and the wellbeing of their players. So the hope is that teams improve or they can continue to tweak the interchange rules around to make for a better game.
 

Dogs Of War

Coach
Messages
12,721
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't unlimited interchanges brought in over the 1997/98 off-season? At least in that case teams were given time to prepare during a very tumultuous time for the code. To the NRL's credit they recognised those rules weren't to the benefit of the code in the long term and they fixed them.

As it stands the NRL needs to ride this out and see how teams adjust. If it continues along this path then they'd have to be concerned about the quality of the product and the wellbeing of their players. So the hope is that teams improve or they can continue to tweak the interchange rules around to make for a better game.

My fav Wayne Bennet moment when he did 40+ interchanges just to show how much of a farce unlimited interchange was.

As for the topic. I think too much is being made out of it. I've watched nearly all teams have lean years. Some teams have to finish at the bottom of the table, and it's a variety of factors that cause that. Really it's up to teams like mine to get their houses in order, try and get those junior development programs working, buy astutely and hope some luck goes their way. And when the tables turn, you really enjoy those wins so much more after going through those years of ineptitude. Just wish my team showed some signs of life in attack. A few tries would help even if we are losing games. Just want to see them having a go.

And I read they want to bring back to the U20's. If anything I think an U23's would work better at that level. Not all players develop the same and it would be much more interesting to watch as your catching a lot bigger group of players, so you will have a higher level of quality on show. No need to bring back reserve grade on game day then. U23's will suffice and be a hell of a lot cheaper for all clubs.
 
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typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,488
Problem with the Dogs is now Cotric is on the wing is that where he stays? Cotric and JAC so much money going into wingers again could be salary cap being spent unwisely, hope I'm wrong.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Problem with the Dogs is now Cotric is on the wing is that where he stays? Cotric and JAC so much money going into wingers again could be salary cap being spent unwisely, hope I'm wrong.

Yeah don't fix the hooker/forward issue they have

No amount of rules can fix stupid
 
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